Question i7 10700k gets too hot!

[SteveBeast]

Hello guys, heres my System:

Win 10 Home
i7 10700k not OC
Motherboard: MPG Z490 Gaming Plus (Newest Bios Version)
32 GB RAM Corsair Vengeance
650 W Corsair PSU
2 SSDs ( 250GB, 1 TB), 1 HDD (750 GB)
RTX 2070 Super Asus Dual EVO Advanced
CPU Cooler: BeQuiet Dark Rock 4 Pro
Case: Bequiet Pure Base 600 (with the 2 Stock Fans)

I just reinstalled Windows 10, updated all Drivers (Windows Updates, Chipset Drivers etc.)

and my i7 10700k idles at 55 Celsius Degrees most of the time. it weirdly jumps from 52-55 all the time, and CPU Frequence (Clock) is 4700 MHZ all the Time.
I have the Windows Energy Options on Balanced.
I applied a fairly big dot on the CPU (Grizzly Thermal Paste) and applied the CPU Cooler.
I dont know what I can do anymore, its just too hot.
My room temperature is 25 Celsius Degrees.
Thanks for the help!

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

there should be an Optimized Settings Option in the Bios, so that it not always will clock up and down right?

NO. please re-read the comments about c-states.
you want the clocks to operate at lower speeds when not required.
you only want the clocks to "step" upwards towards the max CPU speeds when the extra processing speed is required.
exactly as it is doing now.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

you should write down the terms that have been mentioned here and go searching through your BIOS for them.
or just search for those terms including your motherboard model online and maybe someone will have instructed exactly where to go to find them.

to load Optimized Defaults,
it should be an option on the "Exit" screen of the BIOS or a shortcut key like "F5" or "F10".
then you would save and exit.

 

[SteveBeast]

@JohnBonhamsGhost ah ok so youre saying I should be fine, because it clocks from 800 to 3800 all the time. Sry if I ask too much. Sometimes it clocks down to 2200 Mhz. But almosts all the time 800-3,8 Mhz while only writing this. (Im reading from MSI Dragon Center),
CPU Workload varies from 1-5.
Or do you mean I should google for a workaround how to set the C-States right? Im a bit confused.
Ok btw will search tomorrow because of the Optimized Default and answer then about that Its just so weird that it clocks up and down from 800 to 3800 all the time. And now while watching a twitch stream it stays at 3800

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

do you mean I should google for a workaround how to set the C-States right? Im a bit confused.

if your CPU is downclocking than the c-states are now working.
and a few posts ago i described exactly how they work.

the frequency of the processor clocks up & down depending on the amount of processing needed.
for light tasks it will clock down to 800Mhz which will reduce temperature and wear on the CPU.
there will be up to 8 "steps" from 800Mhz to your max clock frequency depending on the CPU usage.

what you still want to do is discover how to disable those three options discussed earlier.

but turning off MCE, ABT, & TVB could possibly help.
first load Optimized Defaults,
set XMP to 2 if available, 1 if not.
then disable the 3 settings mentioned.

 

[SteveBeast]

Ok so I thought MCE would be the Intel Turbo Boost for this Board, because it really improved the temps but apparantly its something else then.
Ok I will make a little research on the C-States and how to disable these 3 things, if there are in the settings.
XMP is not enabled anyways btw.
OK I was closing the twitch stream then it went from 3800 to 800. But as Im writing this it again clocks from 800-3800. So that should be a light task writing this, but its clocking always up to 3800 so there has to be something wrong. And how can I set XMP to 2, i thought this was for the RAM? On the Bios it says 2666 MHz for the RAM but my RAM has 3200 MHz, should probably google that too right?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

XMP is not enabled

XMP relates to your system memory.
it is a profile generated by the RAM manufacturer to load the default memory settings in the BIOS.

when installed all memory will default to a minimum speed and timings with a maximum voltage.
loading the XMP profile for your particular set will enable the manufacturer rated specifications and allow much faster speeds and much better performance.

 

[SteveBeast]

Ok good so all I have to do for that is load the XMP Profile in the OC Settings?
And CPU Boost Setting in the BIos, should I touch that?

And sorry If I still not get it right, but while writing this always clocking up and down from 800-3800 MHz is not normal right? And disabling the 3 settings should fix that?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

MCE (Multi-core Enhancement),
ABT (Active Boost Technology),
& TVB (Thermal Velocity Boost)
are all Intel tech designed to give you leniency in turbo boost & overclocking options.

mostly affect the voltage being allotted to your CPU.
by allowing higher voltages you would be able to achieve higher and maybe more consistent clocks.
you do not want these enabled because you are just trying to lower temperatures, not improve CPU speeds.

the more voltage, the more heat produced.
so you want to disable them.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

while writing this always clocking up and down from 800-3800 MHz is not normal right? And disabling the 3 settings should fix that?

as has already been stated multiple times;
you want the CPU's core speeds to be fluctuating just like they are now.

 

[SteveBeast]

ok alright thanks.
So instead of diabling the Intel Turbo Boost ( which will give me 4,8 GHz when enabled) I should search for these 3 settings to disable right? I hope i get it right this time.
Hopefully I can find them in the bios settings. I'll look tomorrow.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

if the motherboard has been around for a little while there's a chance someone has created a small written tutorial or maybe a video walkthrough for navigating the BIOS.

you can try searching for something on those lines or check the manufacturer forums for someone mentioning your board or ask for BIOS information related to those settings.

instead of disabling the Intel Turbo Boost (which will give me 4,8 GHz when enabled) I should search for these 3 settings to disable right?

yes.
the 1GHz difference from 3.8 to 4.8 would give quite a noticeable improvement in almost all tasks including gaming.

disabling those settings could lower CPU voltage and help keep temps down.

 

[SteveBeast]

Sorry got to bother again. But after reading multiple threads, theres always the same conclusion. The Intel Turbo Boost is the MCE you mentioned, it just has another name. So I am in a predicament now. I either enable the Intel Turbo Boost or MCE and have more performance in game but get much higher temps all the time and a higher clock, or I disable it but get a worse performance in games but better temps and a lower clock.So what would you suggest?
The two other settings I will Google tomorrow and hope I'll find something which I post then. And then I will do some research on the XMP profile tomorrow to figure out how to get the full 3200 hz for my RAM.But the MCE thing bothers me because I dont know what I should do about that.

 

[cryoburner]

@cryoburner Ah ok I thought because John said I should disable MCE to get better performance. And as I was researching, I think MCE means Intel Turbo Boost for this board. And many say you should disable it because the CPU otherwise gets too hot.
And when the Option Turbo Boost was enabled, I was getting 4,8 Ghz and the Idle temps for the i7 were 55, with ocassinally even 60!!!
And while gaming I was getting 70-76.

Now without the Intel Boost, im Getting 41-47 while idling, and 60 while gaming. I mean thats much better right?
And what do you think about the spikes as John mentioned, because it goes from 800 Mhz-3,8 GhZ up and down, and apparantly that wears down the CPU. Do you know where I can find the Optimized Settings Option in the Bios, or is that a more complicated matter?

Disabling Turbo Boost might lower your CPU's temperatures, but that's only because you are effectively crippling its performance, running it at around 25% lower performance than it's supposed to be operating at. So you don't want that disabled, or you might as well have not paid a premium for a higher-end CPU.

And the clock rates jumping around is perfectly normal. Modern CPUs automatically lower their clocks to reduce heat and power consumption when not being heavily utilized, then instantly increase them to get optimal performance whenever applications can benefit from it. This can potentially happen multiple times per second when browsing the web or doing other desktop tasks, and shouldn't cause any harm to the processor.

And again, your temperatures are nothing to worry about. Temperatures in the 70s under load are absolutely normal for modern CPUs, and even temperatures in the 80s are not likely to be harmful, though you may see the processor not boost as high when around that temperature level. In general, modern CPUs are quite durable and have safeguards in place to avoid damage, and tend to be one of the least likely components in your system to fail, so you probably shouldn't be too worried about it.

 

[SteveBeast]

Disabling Turbo Boost might lower your CPU's temperatures, but that's only because you are effectively crippling its performance, running it at around 25% lower performance than it's supposed to be operating at. So you don't want that disabled, or you might as well have not paid a premium for a higher-end CPU.

And the clock rates jumping around is perfectly normal. Modern CPUs automatically lower their clocks to reduce heat and power consumption when not being heavily utilized, then instantly increase them to get optimal performance whenever applications can benefit from it. This can potentially happen multiple times per second when browsing the web or doing other desktop tasks, and shouldn't cause any harm to the processor.

And again, your temperatures are nothing to worry about. Temperatures in the 70s under load are absolutely normal for modern CPUs, and even temperatures in the 80s are not likely to be harmful, though you may see the processor not boost as high when around that temperature level. In general, modern CPUs are quite durable and have safeguards in place to avoid damage, and tend to be one of the least likely components in your system to fail, so you probably shouldn't be too worried about it.

Ok but the i7 10700k is 3,8 Ghz at stock so would that not be enough for performance? I mean if I enable the Intel Turbo Boost and it runs at 4,8 Ghz isnt that like overclocking? And I dont want to overclock it right now.

And you would also say then that 55-60 Degrees Celsius at Idle when the Intel Turbo Boost is enabled isnt also harmful? Could I leave it at that for years to come?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

But after reading multiple threads, theres always the same conclusion. The Intel Turbo Boost is the MCE you mentioned, it just has another name.

Multi-Core Enhancement or MCE is not the same as Intel Turbo Boost.
you could easily find separate definitions for each.

Turbo Boost is a type of factory overclock tested and verified by Intel for single or multiple cores.

Multi-Core Enhancement ensures that the Turbo Boost speeds are enabled across ALL cores
while also allowing increasing voltage beyond the default Intel specs.
these settings are not verified to work by Intel or the motherboard manufacturer, but are offered for those that want to try and get more performance out of their chip.

you want MCE disabled
while the default Turbo Boost settings are still in place.

And you would also say then that 55-60 Degrees Celsius at Idle when the Intel Turbo Boost is enabled isnt also harmful? Could I leave it at that for years to come?

if your system is configured correctly your CPU's c-states will still be active so it will still be idle at it's current 800Mhz and it's current idle temps.

only when utilizing higher CPU usage will it boost to 4.8GHz and reach higher temps.

but with those previously mentioned BIOS settings disabled the voltage will be lower and therefore also the temperature.

you should also figure into this scenario that maximizing airflow through your case and over all of the components as mentioned earlier can also lower system-wide temperatures by a few degrees.

 

[SteveBeast]

Multi-Core Enhancement or MCE is not the same as Intel Turbo Boost.
you could easily find separate definitions for each.

Turbo Boost is a type of factory overclock tested and verified by Intel for single or multiple cores.

Multi-Core Enhancement ensures that the Turbo Boost speeds are enabled across ALL cores
while also allowing increasing voltage beyond the default Intel specs.
these settings are not verified to work by Intel or the motherboard manufacturer, but are offered for those that want to try and get more performance out of their chip.

you want MCE disabled
while the default Turbo Boost settings are still in place.
if your system is configured correctly your CPU's c-states will still be active so it will still be idle at it's current 800Mhz and it's current idle temps.

only when utilizing higher CPU usage will it boost to 4.8GHz and reach higher temps.

but with those previously mentioned BIOS settings disabled the voltage will be lower and therefore also the temperature.

Ok so get it, I should Intel turbo boost leave on for better gaming performance. But I cant find that MCE to disable anywhere in the Bios, or is this more than an option?
But because you said only when utilizing higher CPU usage it will boost to 4.8 hz. But that's the thing, it always jumps from 800-3800 right now or when Intel boost is enabled from 800-4800 hz even when writing here in the forum. So it's no problem that it will boost to 4800 hz then?

 

[cryoburner]

The Intel Turbo Boost is the MCE you mentioned, it just has another name.

MCE is something different.

By default, with "Turbo Boost" active (as it should be), a CPU will boost a bit higher with only one core under load, than it will with multiple cores loaded. A 10700K, for example, should be able to boost as high as 5.0-5.1GHz when an application is only heavily utilizing a single core. If an application is heavily utilizing all cores simultaneously though, the boost can drop as low as 4.7GHz, as a way to help keep temperatures and power-use in check. And it can potentially drop lower than that under load if it decides that the temperatures are getting too high. At idle, it can drop even below base clocks to save power.

What MCE (Multi-Core Enhancement) does, is tell the CPU to boost to that maximum 5.0+GHz level even if all cores are being utilized. It won't reduce the boost to 4.7GHz with all core loaded, making it effectively a form of overclocking. If your clocks were only around 4.7 to 4.8 GHz, then MCE was probably not active, as I would expect the feature to make that processor boost higher than that.

Ok but the i7 10700k is 3,8 Ghz at stock so would that not be enough for performance? I mean if I enable the Intel Turbo Boost and it runs at 4,8 Ghz isnt that like overclocking? And I dont want to overclock it right now.

And you would also say then that 55-60 Degrees Celsius at Idle when the Intel Turbo Boost is enabled isnt also harmful? Could I leave it at that for years to come?

The base clock is not stock performance. Turbo Boost is stock, as that's how the CPU is designed to run by default. Idling at 55-60 degrees is not likely to be a concern as far as the health of the CPU is concerned, as modern CPUs are designed to withstand much higher temperatures than that.

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

So it's no problem that it will boost to 4800 hz then?

it is supposed to.

the i7 10700k is 3,8 Ghz at stock so would that not be enough for performance?

lowering the frequency to achieve a lower temperature is kind of like chopping your limbs off to achieve a lower weight.
you may reach your goal weight or temperature, but you're losing efficiency and performance while not addressing the actual problem.

I cant find that MCE to disable anywhere in the Bios

why were you claiming earlier that you've disabled it in the BIOS then?
was there an option for the actual "Intel Turbo Boost" that you disabled instead?

to find it:
it's usually located near to the XMP Profile and the Core Ratio settings.

MSI may even use a different name for it other than MCE.
if you don't see it on any of the advanced menus or their sub-menus you may have to do some online searching to find what exact naming MSI uses for this particular feature.

 

[SteveBeast]

Ok I made a few changes couldnt find the ABT Function tough, I keep looking! And couldnt find Optimized Settings!

I went into Overclocking/Advanced CPU Config.
And I think I found MCE, its called Enhanced Turbo (Enables or disables Turbo function, for all CPU cores to boost CPU Performance) It was on Auto I set it on disabled, I hope thats right?

In the DRAM Settings, I enabled Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) which is on Profile 1. In the Dragon Center DRAM Frequency is shown as 3200 MHz , I think that means it worked right?

CPU Cooler Tuning was set to Water Cooler, I set it to Tower Air Cooler.

In the DRAM Settings there were 3 Options, DRAM Reference Clock , DRAM Frequency, and Memory Try it. I left them all on Auto.

CPU Ratio Apply Mode is on All Core.

Game Boost CPU (in the Bios) is off.

Hyperthreading is enabled.

Intel C State - > Auto ( should I change that?)

EIST -> enabled (enabled enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology)

Now about the TVB options, I found 2 settings:

TVB Ratio Clipping (controls Core frequency reduction caused by high package temperature for processors that implement the TVB feature) Its set to AUTO, should I change it?

and

TVB Voltage Optimization (controls thermal based voltage optimization for processors that implement TVB (its set on AUTO)


And altough I disabled the Enhanced Turbo Feature and enabled Intel Turbo Boost, the CPU Temp is fluctuating from 40-50 all the time, while idling. Thats not so good right?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

TVB should be set to disabled, all instances of it.

ABT may only be added in later BIOS versions or later platforms.
was only introduced for 11th gen CPUs as far as i know.

altough I disabled the Enhanced Turbo Feature and enabled Intel Turbo Boost, the CPU Temp is fluctuating from 40-50 all the time, while idling. Thats not so good right?

if it stays closer to 40°C when the clocks are at their lowest speed than it's not terrible and can be further reduced with better case airflow.

when i have my browser open(with it's 5-10 open tabs) my clocks fluctuate from 800MHz to 5.2GHz while the temperature fluctuates from 30° to ~38° depending on what else i'm doing.

so your ~10° fluctuation while browsing is similar.
if you had better airflow and worked on getting your CPU voltage down i imagine you'd be getting closer results to mine.

but before worrying about manipulating the CPU voltage you should probably get a lot more experience and a lot more research into your BIOS options.
i wouldn't be surprised if you could find some Youtubers or other articles going more in depth into the options for your particular board.
and i know there's tons of info out there about your particular CPU's potential and how to reach it.

 

[SteveBeast]

So but the Enhanced Turbo was MCE right? And it was ok to disable it?

And so the 2 TVB options I mentioned I can disable without worrying right? And these 2 are the only options or should there be a third one?

Ok I will make some researches about the bios.

But one question I have left, the thing is, is it damaging for the CPU when I run it at 40-50 idling all the time? And I have the feeling adjusting the CPU fan curve has not much impact on the temperatures as I tried.

And one last question , in the Dragon Center the System Fan is at 0 RPM is that normal?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

in the Dragon Center the System Fan is at 0 RPM is that normal?

check the motherboard manual which fan header the SYS_FAN is.
is there a fan installed here?
is it running?

I have the feeling adjusting the CPU fan curve has not much impact on the temperatures as I tried.

not just changing the CPU cooler's fan settings.
did you miss the first few mentions of upgrading your system-wide cooling?

 

[SteveBeast]

Yeah i will definitly look into better airflow in the case.
But just to be sure to disable enhanced turbo was right or?

 

[SteveBeast]

btw just wanted to ask. Im downloading a game right now and reading something in the browser. My CPU Corevolt is fluctuating from mostly 1.0880 - 1.2800 is that normal? Or should I try to lower it?

 

[cryoburner]

But one question I have left, the thing is, is it damaging for the CPU when I run it at 40-50 idling all the time? And I have the feeling adjusting the CPU fan curve has not much impact on the temperatures as I tried.

As I pointed out before, those kinds of temperatures should not be a problem for long-term durability. Even idling at higher temperatures than that should be fine.

As for load temperatures, modern CPUs can technically withstand temperatures into the 90s, and should automatically throttle performance as they near that level to avoid exceeding their safe thermal limits, though I would be a bit wary of letting them stay near that level for extended periods, as it's possible long-term degradation might occur. Load temperatures in the 70s are not likely anything to be worried about though.

Again, CPUs tend to be quite durable, and are probably one of the least-likely components in your system to fail. It's rare that you hear about a modern CPU failing unless someone was overclocking it to its limits, and even then it's uncommon. Some will try to get their temperatures as low as possible, but unless the processor is getting to levels where the CPU is throttling and affecting performance, it's not likely to make much difference. As for CPU fan curves, it's arguably better to aim for a relatively quiet system with moderate temperatures than a noisy one with unnecessarily low temperatures.