If You Hate Apple and Macs, Read This

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Tuan Nguyen, you just don't get it. I have not visited toms in a while, but I remember a article you wrote a while back about apple... in which you were ripped a new one.
Maybe those people do not visit this site anymore maybe they have been replaced by a more complacent group of people. You must understand that those people were not "PC fundamentalists", they have wisdom which you clearly do not have. Apple sells fashion technology there is not DIY market according to apple because if there were there would be no fashion technology. Fashion technology being the marketing strategy of Nike who sells shoes for 120$ when it costs them ridiculously less, apply this to technology and you get companies like Apple.
You already see companies like ASUS following in their footsteps, releasing products that really are the same as their competitors but because they want to become a name brand they charge more.

Because of the DIY market that exists in the PC domain more pressure is applied to the big fish to keep prices down and reasonable. I wold go so far as to claim that it is the ubiquity of PC economy, parts and methodology behind the whole thing that has made possible the ubiquity of computers.

Apples fashion marketing is setting an example for the rest of the industry. Will they all follow? Some already are! Suppose 50% of the market segment adopts their strategy then there is much less of the DIY market for you and me......well maybe just me.

I do not like apple products but I do not hate them. I hate they way they do business. I hate what they represent; fashion technology.
 
Tuan Nguyen, you just don't get it. I have not visited toms in a while, but I remember a article you wrote a while back about apple... in which you were ripped a new one.
Maybe those people do not visit this site anymore maybe they have been replaced by a more complacent group of people. You must understand that those people were not "PC fundamentalists", they have wisdom which you clearly do not have. Apple sells fashion technology there is not DIY market according to apple because if there were there would be no fashion technology. Fashion technology being the marketing strategy of Nike who sells shoes for 120$ when it costs them ridiculously less, apply this to technology and you get companies like Apple.
You already see companies like ASUS following in their footsteps, releasing products that really are the same as their competitors but because they want to become a name brand they charge more.

Because of the DIY market that exists in the PC domain more pressure is applied to the big fish to keep prices down and reasonable. I wold go so far as to claim that it is the ubiquity of PC economy, parts and methodology behind the whole thing that has made possible the ubiquity of computers.

Apples fashion marketing is setting an example for the rest of the industry. Will they all follow? Some already are! Suppose 50% of the market segment adopts their strategy then there is much less of the DIY market for you and me......well maybe just me.

I do not like apple products but I do not hate them. I hate they way they do business. I hate what they represent; fashion technology.
Fashion technology = no competition
 
My .02$
1. you say "It's just advertisements/marketing!"
That's what totalitarian governments say about their propaganda ads. "They're just ads! People don't have to watch them!" The fact, though, is that the exposure alone is the issue. I'm not comparing apple to the likes of Il or Hitler, But they're using similar techniques to engender a sort of corporate-equivalent nationalism in their product. Windows has never directly attacked their competitors as far as marketing is concerned. Most companies really don't. There are of course always a few examples, but the overall strategy has never been a targeted take-down. The ire against Apple partly stems from their fanatic-like rhetoric and the targeted methods of "brainwashing." You can counter that there aren't, but there are documentaries in production (http://www.hulu.com/watch/94300/macheads if you haven't seen it) that talk about the nigh-religious crowd apple attracts. My issue is that you assume that everyone who is going into buying a computer is an informed and rational person, and the truth of the matter is that people will buy what's "trendy," "Popular," and "recognizable." As a result, Apple people buy these products, and then get inculcated into a corporate company that's more fanaticism than enthusiasm, EVEN THE SIMPSONS HAS LAMPOONED [M]APPLE! (Not online anymore or i'd link it.)

My other point is concerning apple on tom's. I have no problem with Apple being on Tom's, and you're right, there are people who specifically target and slander apple for no apparent reason. However, I feel like sometimes there is some SERIOUS Apple Fanboy-ism that goes into articles, and they DESERVE to be called out in a respectable and congenial manner (which i agree does occur rarely...but it's there.) If Apple wants a fair seat on Tom's Apple needs to be given fair coverage, in as much that it needs to be mentioned fair-time. It also needs to be reciprocated. So that means that a PC Article that can, should mention Mac in their lineup, just like a Mac article should give fair time to a PC. My prime example was the EFiX exposure from a while back. It was more or less an "Old-boys club" of Apple-rhetoric and Windows bashing. Even if the reporter wasn't doing the bashing, there was no defense as would be prudent, and not even a simple question against the person's mac-bashing. If a republican is bashing health-care, there's going to be a question from the reporter, Fox or not, questioning the hate. None such luck.

My gripes: Don't write off propaganda. There's a difference between an ad and slander. Apple flirts with that line WAY to closely for comfort and is very often known for crossing it.
And please, give BALANCED coverage when apple is covered. If that means rolling PCs together with Apples in a PC-heavy review with an aside, make it so. But just balance it out. We don't gripe about Apple insomuch that it's because we're vehemently hate it (well...there is always the fanboys, either way) but we get so raged because the coverage is unbalanced. All we ask is equal time. If that means more apple in PC-centric articles, so be it, but balance is all we want.
 
[citation][nom]thackstonns[/nom]The hate comes from your poor choice of mac articles, and thier lack of objectivity. Every Mac article you publish is a raving review. Oh look new iphones, oh look osx is faster than 7, Oh look an apple tablet it will be huge. You have no objectivity. Every other article has a review and then at the end alot of times you state what you feel is a downside. Your apple articles dont have this downside. I hate apple. The reason is the it just work campain, and them stating that macs are virus free. Cell Phones and Macs didnt get along forever. And there is hardly any third party support. Also its been proven the only reason macs dont get a ton of viruses, is because no one cares about .05percent of the computer world. So quit whining about how everyone makes fun of you for loving macs. This article actually made me loose respect for you. When you were posting articles and taking the critisims that was fine. But now you just come off as a whinny tit baby. "dont make fun of me cause I love mac"[/citation]

The hate you speak of is the product of ignorance, and you show your ignorance when you say that every article is a raving review and has no objectivity. You really have no understanding how the "news" works do you? Almost every Mac news article posted here I read 2-24 hours earlier on MacRumors or AppleInsider. These "reviews" you speak of are news snippets. If anything, TH does the Apple community a disservice by not printing the entire original articles...but hey, it is just "news" so no need to get you panties in a knot. I suppose you think Fox news is objective?

Posting news about the release of a new product does not imply that TH is endorsing it, or raving about it as you say. Where in the previous articles did it say "the new iMac's just kick Windows ass?" It is not there and you are blinded by your emotions and your lack of objectivity.

The article on OS X being faster than Win7 was a weak test as the original author admitted...yet, many here took it as the gospel. The author was challenging others to run similar tests with better hardware, and more software variables...but nobody read enough to see that. They just saw the headline and blew-up. FYI: Headlines are meant to draw readers. These were "news" articles pulled from other sites, and not reviews by TH. Consequently, you will not see any pros or cons.

Do you know the difference between "news" and "reviews"?

You say you hate Apple. Are you aware of the various marketing tactics, the theft of intellectual material, patents, etc. that Microsoft has participated in since it's birth? I doubt it, because if you did then you would surely hate them more since their ill-gotten marketing tactics far exceed anything Apple has done. Microsoft has the reputation of being a "corporate bully" for a reason.

The author here was not whining as you say. He was trying to get people to start looking at things without involving their emotions and bias. He also seemed to question the bias and anti- baggage that many bring to the table. Leave it at the door.

You say he comes across as a "whining-tit baby." You come across as an ignorant ass who lacks writing skills.

This process of identifying liberals with Apple products is absurd. Even if it was true...so what? I suppose the same group hates the hippie mentality...the very hippie mentality that brought into existence the personal computer in the 1960's. Most musicians and performers in general are liberal by nature. Tell me, do you not listen to music or watch movies? The conservatives in Hollywood you can count on one hand.

Time to lighten-up.

 
Jagocat pretty much summed it up for me.

People with real hardware software knowledge often like to see people get the most for their money and see the most efficient and cost effective solutions rewarded so that such trends are reinforced and continued.

A company that designes everything it makes to not be upgradable and is even integrating the displays so that they too will be thrown away even if its completely usable after the computer is heavily obsolete and then charge 1.5 to 2 times as much for it and effectively lie outright or fudge benchmarks/statistics in order to get buyers or launch major kick back campaigns in schools (give administrators incentives to use apple products even if local computer companies could set them up better and cheaper) to hook em young so that they don't know any better when they are told how terrible windows is to use etc.

Basically a company that in general pushes ignorance to sell throw away products.

That sort of tactic is nearly always going to rub knowledgable people the wrong way.

When articals are posted that instead of posting the facts are biased even in the TITLE of the article its a bit obnoxious. There is a big difference in posting an artical titled X company releases Y product. Or X vs. Y compared. Instead of X company releases great Y product and X is clearly better than Y.

You as writers are certainly people too and are certainly allowed to have your own opinions. However when writing on a site that people use for information and referencework an opinon loaded piece becomes garbage for us. Save it for a small discussion blurb at the end (as you should have been taught to do when writing objective reports and not advertisements) and let your theoretically intelligent readers make our own minds.

There are enough people already that are poorly educated on how computers work and what really happens under the hood. Many of us who don't fit that category get annoyed when websites post opinion like its fact and push novices to make stupid decisions.

As already stated by many at this point. If you're not biased then don't act like it. When a company that has 10% of the market gets a rediculous amount of attention and is written about in a manner that often suggests adoration most of us are not impressed. There are many product releases that used to be covered much more extensively, motherboards, psus, input peripherals, cases. This doesn't happen much anymore. And instead of at least covering their releases in news bits we're blasted with ipod apps?

I think toms could use a little more toms hardware and a little less toms opinion peices... /shrug

Stay objective, get more hardware focused, loose the company bias on coverage and attitude. And you'll probably get more respect back and more readers. If your news has merit and the article is good you don't need to sensationalize it in the title or otherwise.
 
This article (editorial? commentary?) would be a lot more effective if it provided as much defense for the PC against the Apple fanatics who frequent tech sites like TomsHardware.

Sure, there are anti-Apple fanatics, and while this article goes a little overboard, condescending and dismissive, it does dispell some of the anti-Apple myths.

Now how about giving as much publication time to dispelling the myths generated by Apple's marketing department and the rabid Apple fans who don't live in the modern world where Apple is no longer graphics design king, and the only significant difference between a given Apple and similarly performing PC is Operating System.

It's great that you want to defend the journalistic integrity here at Toms, so... show some. Admit to the big secret that everybody already knows - that Apple's quality isn't what it's cracked up to be, and their fanatics are every bit as deluded as the anti-Apple fanatics who have never touched a Mac a day in their lives.

When Apple perpetuates closed systems, aggressively maintains an anti-competitive monopoly on manufacture of computers that run its operating system, bullies companies in completely unrelated fields for having logos that in any way remotely resemble fruit, and base their entire marketing campaign on lies and misdirection, they're every bit as bad as and deserving of criticism as Microsoft ever has been. And whatever idiot at their marketing department who suggested using "funnest" in an iPhone/iPod ad needs to be fired; for embracing a product-centered culture based on pretentious elitism, using "funnest" - which isn't even a word - should be an embarrassment.

This article also completely ignores the bulk of legitimate criticisms against Apple and its products. Whether it was a rush-job to beat 7 to market or just good old-fashioned poor design, when Apple releases a supposedly awesome OS (Snow Leopard) that randomly deletes user data when a guest logs on, something has gone terribly wrong and they need to be held accountable. Ignoring very real problems and saying "you PC guys need to stop hating" is counterproductive, to say the least.
 
This kinda crap pisses me off, i can say whatever i please about apple and this article somehow tries to remain neutral, but ends up defending the poor fruit bastards. oh and FYI mercedes-benz is just an expensive piece of sh*t
 
While I definitely agree some of the anger is over the top unreasonable. Some of it is also very well explained. You post a title, and I spend the time reading. If I feel my time was wasted, naturally I'll feel annoyed. The alternative for the frustrated readers of course is to stop reading the news articles all together...which unfortunately for the most part I've already done. I still come to toms for hardware reviews primarily on CPU and video cards as nearly everything else has fallen by the way side. But that's about it. Consider though, someone reading cpu and video card reviews is unlikely to give a rats hiney about macs that do a poor job at best supporting cpu and video card upgrades on their platforms etc.

Yoder54 you seem to miss the point. Apple is not the equivalent of microsoft to many of us. Apple = a severely restricted and overpriced dell that only offers one OS flavor that is not directly compatible with most software and goes for a specific often highly stylized look that may or may not appeal to you.

You don't worship MS just because you don't like apple or hp etc. etc.

Most large companies have shady dealings here and there, some moreso than others. The aspect of MS that I appreciate is that prior to it you had apple, tandy, ibm, commadore, amiga, etc. etc. and you could buy proprietary hardware, or select software for your computer type but in order to run what you really wanted in some cases you would have to own 3 different computers. It sucked for software writers, hardware companies, drivers, etc. etc. The "glory" of windows is that you can buy the OS and you EXPECT nearly any peice of hardware or software to work on it, if it doesn't you are suprised and upset. The point that it can be more or less stable and functional on top of that could be considered impressive.

Are there some products that apple releases that are decent? Certainly, but I can well imagine that if toms focused nearly as much on dell, sony, asus or hp products as it does on apple readers would be saying wtf about it also, especially if done in the same manner as many of the apple pieces are done.
 
So at the company that I work, we get a choice the first day- macbook pro or an equivalent HP with windows- we're not allowed to use Linux on our laptops. I, as a sysadmin and normally a linux user, chose the macbook not because I'm a fanboy but for features of OSX (mostly the native terminal program). If I was in accounting where all the software I was going to use was Windows based, I'd probably pick the HP which is lighter and smaller. I could do either job with either OS/hardware but as in all things, pick the right tool for the job and it's easier and faster and you'll get better results.
 
[citation][nom]Anonymous[/nom]This kinda crap pisses me off, i can say whatever i please about apple and this article somehow tries to remain neutral, but ends up defending the poor fruit bastards. oh and FYI mercedes-benz is just an expensive piece of sh*t[/citation]

Is this an example of an adult temper tantrum? What is your point?

Are you a Chevy fan? No. Studebaker?
 
A lot of hatred stems from ignorance, now I can't accurately make any guesses here but I'd be willing to assume most of those whom have a clear hatred for Mac simply have never used it!

I can stand what I know. It's what I don't know that frightens me.
-Frances Newton
Click to expand...

Apple is not a PC, and PC is not an Apple, so accept the two as different. Apple does what they do relatively well, regardless of how they go about doing it. Same goes for a non-apple computer. Linux does what it does well, Windows is the same story. After being thoroughly educated in the subject matter at hand you buy what is most appropriate for your wants/needs. End of story. I like Linux/Windows for customization, low costs, development, and general compatibility. I like Mac for office, school and web stuff. Please note how I used like, not hate because one OS or the Other is not better or best at the other point it just goes about it a different way.
 
1. It's human nature to complain. It won't stop.

2. If all a person is able to say is a one liner complaint aka Apple Sucks, it does not deserve the attention of the Toms Hardware staff / article writers. If a poster wants his comment to be read, he'll put the effort into providing information that brought him to conclusion / decision. This means that you should not consider those one liners as valid comments to an article, just discard of them.

3. The people that do understand why there are articles of anything technological or not on this website also are probably not as vocal as the others that say "Microsoft / Apple sucks" and already understand why you post them so there is no need to defend the reason of having articles of Apple, and since those hate comments must be disregarded (no. 2), there is no need for explanation / apology like this article.
 
I bought a new Mac laptop because I like how it works. I use it for writing, online banking and other financial tasks, web browsing, and to run iTunes hooked in to the house sound system.

I recently built a Windows rig, with an overclocked core i7, water cooled, maxed out the RAM, and more hard disk space than I'll ever use. What do I use it for? Online gaming, almost exclusively. I'll be upgrading from Vista (which I never had a problem with) to Windows 7 since I preordered and the box arrived today.

I like both machines. Both work fine. I expect Windows 7 will cause a few hiccups, but that is to be expected with a new os.

Oh, and I also have an iPod and a Blackberry. I guess that makes me a mixed-technology kind of person.



 
I've been visiting this site since the late 90's and with each passing day (since Best of took over) most of the authors on Tom's, with the exception of Jane and Cleeve, have become more and more disrespectful towards their readers.

Pretty sad, in my opinion, that Tom's isn't my most visited hardware/tech news site anymore. I loved this site, and I still do to some extent, but I just don't consider it a hardcore hardware/techie site anymore... it's mostly fluff and non-fact based opinion articles anymore.

If you step back and just let Jane and Cleeve post articles/in-depth reviews, you'd probably lose a lot of the hostility directed towards this site.
 
I gotta laugh at this article. Snow Leopard is released and NOT a single article on it until about a week later. Windows 7 is officially released today and you have "streaming coverage" and 10 articles on Windows 7. How on earth could someone think Tom's is pro Apple?

In fact, Tom's editors/writers have gone out of their way to publish bad information about Apple -- it's not that the information is completely wrong, it's just it's present with partial truth's with a specific "spin" ignoring the other facts completely. Anyone can present a story the way they need to present to support their opinion, easy to do. The real science comes from people that don't live on one side of the fence. And it certainly appears to me that Tom's writers/editor do indeed live on ONE side of the fence. Given that Microsoft appear to be a BIG advertiser on Tom's, I'd dare suggest there is a reason Tom's reporting is BIAS.

I've seen so so so many Windows fanboys at Tom's talking about Apple that have NEVER EVER used a Mac, let alone own one.

The standard Windows fanboy (I choose my words carefully) repeats the same old rhetoric:

Mac's cost most - FALSE
Mac's can't be upgraded - FALSE
Mac's can't do games - FALSE

I see the same posts over and over and over -- guess what, those posting have never touched a Mac.

The real facts are that Apple has about 24% home computer marketshare, Microsoft about 71%. But overall marketshare (including business computers) and the numbers change to Apple 10%, Microsoft 87%. But if you look at educational system, those numbers change drastically again.

But Tom's hardware should be about Personal Computers -- PC does not mean Windows exclusive -- it means an electronic tool to get a job done, be it video editing, entertaiment, audio creation, etc. etc. A Mac is a personal computer (with or without boot camp).

Anyway, can't wait to see how people deal with "unsigned" drivers in Windows 7 when it prevents them from booting back into their computer. Good luck with that.
 
Posting mac news on a PC based news and entheusiast (not to mention overclocking) site and expecting people to not shoot down macs is ultra fail. Someone at Tom's Hardware needs to be fired :) (just kidding though)
 
Really.
You actually wrote this article and validated the "Flame" responses that people post here. It should be noted that the majority of the informed don't (or rarely) post at all to these articles. Most of these come from those that have yet to enter the workforce or are of a somewhat novice user level to understand the market focus, hardware specifications/applications, the other blah blah blahs of the tech world. All of us engineers face this kind of uniformed scrutiny sometimes on a daily basis from the ignorant product managers. The only difference is its verbal (usually at an elevated volume) and in our faces in front of several other people. Be the better person and not fan the flames further, by not responding. Those of us familiar with the tech/software will continue to read. Quite frankly, those are the readership you're shooting for anyway.
 
You don't have my pity Tuan. When you write a Mac related article, and when Marcus does for that matter, you both usually fail miserably when it comes to taking into consideration the feelings of your target audience. If you didn't create such ridiculous and misleading headlines, and articles filled with inconsistencies leaning towards Mac bias, then people wouldn't attack you in the comments (as much). Realize that its your mistake and move forward using some common sense.
 
I like what they're saying in this article, but the thing that caught my eye is their point that

A Mac is a computer, simple as that.
Click to expand...

If you think about it, the hardware is exactly the same as a normal computer. A Mac IS a pc, very simple. The only real difference is how it's put together (Apple's simplistic cases) and the operating system, which has its roots from the Unix operating system. I think Macs cost a bit too much personally, but you pay a premium for service.

Many people say Mac articles don't belong here because this is an overclocking and pc site, but I like it that Tom's covers all facets of hardware and software, rather than concentrating on overclocking and pc building in their news section.
 
I may be flamed for this, but I think it needs to be said.

This is the most pointless article I've ever read on Tom's hardware.

Are you so insecure as authors that you feel the need to come and more or less wine about how your readers are picking on you? Do you honestly feel the need to write an entire article for the sole purpose of validating your existance? Seriously??

There will always be people that hate macs. Regardless of how many articles like this you write, people will still hate macs. A good portion of your readers are among these people. As long as you write articles about macs, people are going to flame you incessantly, as well as everyone that speaks up to say that like them. Deal with it! Suck it up, be a man and stop complaining. Part of your job is dealing with the fact that not everybody is going to agree with you or even like you. It doesn't mean that you stop writing, it just means that you learn to accept it.

If you understand your audience, then I'm dumb-founded that you didn't see it coming before you ever started writing all of the "I love mac because..." articles.
 
i support toms hardware and read there articles religiously almost every day after work. i have pc's and macs and home .. and there are somethings i prefer to do with my mac vs windows.. if you ask people why mac its like asking why i wear a certain shirt its because it just feels good.. i look at computers more as a tool kinda like that socket set in your garage you have 101 sockets or programs and you can work on a million different things with them. some people will say anything you can do on a mac you can do on a windows in most cases you can .. but personally i like the user interface and the fact that you dont need to install a crap load of drivers or constantly run defrag on your drives. the thing i like about pc is the fact that you have like a million different game titles ... personally thats the only thing i use pc for .. still that being said i wish yahoo had a full featured version of yahoo messenger for mac.. i mean other than that what difference is there? by the way having used vista .. i think its too cluttered and treats people like there a virus. trying to protect them from there selfs they started it in xp but only made it worse in vista .. personally i love xp though.. best thing sense 95! lol
 
[citation][nom]fulle[/nom]You don't have my pity Tuan. When you write a Mac related article, and when Marcus does for that matter, you both usually fail miserably when it comes to taking into consideration the feelings of your target audience. If you didn't create such ridiculous and misleading headlines, and articles filled with inconsistencies leaning towards Mac bias, then people wouldn't attack you in the comments (as much). Realize that its your mistake and move forward using some common sense.[/citation]

I couldn't agree with this poster more. When I first took notice to Tom's Hardware posting articles about Macs I mostly ignored them. Then when Tuan took to comparing Macs to PCs I read a few of them and could not have been more appalled that THG would print such propaganda. There was evidently no research done on some of his articles and he obviously did not understand the differences between buying a PC and a Mac.

When you buy a Mac you have very little leeway in where you are buying it from and its hard to find a deal that is much better than the Mac store. However, when buying a PC you have a plethora of options and cannot just pick some overpriced dell laptop and compare that to a Mac. One laptop from one PC manufacturer is not nearly as representative of the PC market as a single Mac is of the Macs available to the average consumer.

You have made it clear over the years that you have a bias towards Macs. Don't get all whiny when people call you out on it. If you keep acting like a Fanboy Tuan all you are going to do is attract more heat from PC fanboys.
 
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