If You Hate Apple and Macs, Read This

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And that is why I have became OS agnostic. Intel is inside both camps .. so other than personal preference ... If I can run OSX, Windows, or Linux its truly a consumers trump card. Buy what you want, use what you wish - I just want to use what I want to use. 'nuf said!
 
[citation][nom]fanat1c[/nom]good article.i hope that vista bashers who havent even used vista also read this article and apply the same to vista.[/citation]

Microsoft already did this. The Mojave project. Took people who never used Vista who all said it was horrible and crap and had them rate it before using it. Average for Vista was about 2-3/10.

They then showed them Vista via "Mojave". Then had them rerate it. Came out to about a 8/10 average.

As for Apple, I hate the inability to customize the hardware at all (and the fact that the EU doesn't go after them for worse than MS considering Apple is completely closed hardware, software and apps), paying more than its worth and the lies they tell in their commercials.

I don't care if you state your product is great, but when you flat out lie about the competition, thats when you lose my respect.
 
LOL, I must admit it, its funny to see some of these post. Posts that the author is exactly talking about. In fact, just in reading some these post it makes we wonder if they even read the article completely before commenting.

I will say this though. I am a little disappointed with this article, because in some ways you are attacking the very people who read your articles and support your site. I like many, may not agree with some of the opinions that are posted, but they are exactly that opinions. Now consider the age spectrum. They are people who read these articles who very from ages 12 to over 60. Of course your going to get some childish post, but that's the nature of the beast. If you do not like a post or believe a post is inappropriate then you should remove it from your site. I'm sure the argument can be made as to what do you merit as appropriate or not, but that's for Toms Hardware to decide.
 
[citation][nom]kamel5547[/nom]Tuan, who is your editor? Obviously you don't actcally read the comments, as your summary actually ignores any major point brought up. The Mac is fine... for anyone who a) doesn't careto do any customization b) doesn't care about limitations on the software they can run and c) is willing to pay a premium for a &b. Unfortunately these items have no reason to be on Tom's Hardware, in fact they are the opposite of what Tom's is(and some extent now was) successful for. Want to publish pro-Mac articles, great, do so in an appropriate forum. As a buyer for a large (50,000+ user) corporation I don't come here for articles on Mac's, there are plenty of sites devoted to that. Essentially my point is you are addressing a PC community, if you want to write about Mac's that's great, however a better forum would be a Mac oriented site.[/citation]

This I agree with a lot.

Lets look at the sites name: Toms Hardware.

Lets disect: Toms (The guy who started it, we miss you a lot) Hardware (as in PC components, tweaking, customization and building ect).

Toms started as a small site on the verge of the Internet bubble and computer uprising. It was dedicated to computer hardware and showing which was better and more worthy of our money.

tom used to do crazy things like the old "How long can a Pentium 4 or Athlon XP last with no cooling?" video or even the "Oil cooled PC".

Certain things remain like the builders Marathon but back tthen Mac was not to be on the site. At all. Sure back then it wasn't a PC, used PowerPC IBM CPUs BUT even while it uses Intel CPUs that doesn't truly make it a PC worthy of being on Toms. Can you customize it? not really. Sure you can choose which CPU you want Intel wise and have a choice between some pretty meh GPUs but are you able to buy each part thats the best for the money, throw it into a Mac case and throw OSX on it? No.

So when did a Mac get the ability to be on a PC enthusiast (meaning one who builds PCs)? Hell it seems to have started with the iPod legacy which doesn't even fully fit into PCs at all. Its in its own area.

Personally I hope for the day for Tom to come back and turn Toms into what it was, a fun random PC Enthusiast site. Not what it is now.
 
Microsoft messed up with Vista then added insult to the Mohave campaign ... ( tsk tsk tsk ) Apples hardware has "hooks" in it but why would you straddle a $3000 piece of hardware that isnt even gaming ready to run Vista ? (Creating Digital Content ? XP ok .. win7 sure.. Linux ? You bet!)
Apple has one 1 way to make their motherboards and I have seen the insides of the G3,G4,G5 and the Intel Mac Mobos... pretty sexy stuff in there but the OS doesn't do it for me. On the PC side ... cavet emptor !!! Your milage will vary BIG TIME although its getting better (give or take a couple of clinkers) If manufactures of motherboards figure out how to level the playing field so that ASUS, MSI, SuperMicro, TYAN,EVGA no matter what runs EXACTLY ( as humanly possible ) the same and are predictable in nature. Then we might be able to determine what the best OS is. But it comes down to what fits you. I have moved over to Linux, I still use windows for a few apps that I need. With a recent project I may HAVE to get a mac .. so Agnostic attitude towards OS and platforms is necessary .. ( I miss PowerPC it had potential but we all know what happened there. )
 
+1 to this article.

I'm not even a Mac fanboy but I don't understand the immature hate and disrespect from people. Apple is an excellent company with a very good business plan. I totally get why a number of PC enthusiasts and DIY types don't like their business model, but hate them? Come on. They make great tech, and they charge more for things OTHER than just pure price-perfomance. Aesthetics, build quality, software (which is VERY wisely tied to their hardware, from a business sense), and other innovative features. If you don't like what they offer that's totally cool!

I'm a DIY PC guy and think Apple makes great products, but not necessarily the products *I* want. I've got my homebuilt custom rig that smokes an Apple system anyday sitting here that I built for $800 or so. Guess what? I've recommended Macbook's to a number of friends and family members, because while it may not fit MY wants, it fits THEIRS perfectly! Good thing we have choice and competition!

Hope to see some more mature attitudes from here out.
 
I think this is one of the best articles that has ever been posted at anytime, anywhere, on the internet. It is too bad that the worst culprits are the ones who aren't going to listen to anything thing this article says and are probably just going to go on with their life without changing anything...

And in case you were wondering, yes my main computer is a Mac, but I also own a Windows PC. In fact, I am using it right now. There is room in the world for both. People just need to get over their hate.
 
[citation][nom]cyberkuberiah[/nom]if one is a real enthusiast , he will shoot for performance first . on every budget point , a pc can surely beat apple . what remains is marketing fluff. its just that they have some styled products which are useless for most of enthusiasts or gamers .[/citation]

"real" enthusiast? Do you mean a real TECHNOLOGY enthusiast, or a real DIY enthusiast?

For a DIY enthusiast who wants to overclock, home build their rigs and maximize performance for bottom dollar, play games, etc. etc. - Yup, PC is the only way to go.

For those who do not want to tinker with their computers, overclock, or value other features for their money other than just performance, Apple is great. If I want a great portable web browsing experiencing and music/photo experience, do I need a quad core system with a GTX 285? Or will a Core 2 Duo with 2gb of RAM be just fine? Do I want to spend the extra $$ on performance, or how about a magsafe adaptor, 7 hour battery w/5 year lifespan, LED IPS screen, backlit keyboard, all Aluminum build, the niceties of OS X software, etc.?

Apple systems and hardware are FAR from useless. I've used them extensively, and while I am still a PC guy, there is very little than I can't do in a Mac that I have need/desire to do on a PC. Outside of OCing/DIY-related and CAD, there's not much left that Apple doesn't do. And a whole lot it does BETTER.

It depends on the user. I like Windows, I like games, I like DIY computer stuff. It's fun to me. Half my friends/family don't, I recommended them to Apple. They're thrilled. And they are not idiots, they just aren't as geeky as me. That's probably a very good thing :)

Also, I am a "real" enthusiast of both DIY *and* technology. Apple makes great technology that any "true" enthusiast shouldn't ignore. They have driven market innovation more than any other tech company (save for perhaps Google) in recent years. While they sometimes lack features or offer an annoying limit on choice, when they do something, they do it extremely well. When they exclude things, they always have a rationale, and most of the time it makes good sense.
 
I already made a post, not as long winded but the same point.

Tom's report the news and in the case of a previous post, someone bashed Marcus for reporting what someone else had said. I believe my response was to compare it to bashing Dan Rather for reporting the 6 o'clock news.
 
Apple doesn't send you samples?!?! I am surprised you are actually willing to review their products. Then again I suspect some of the T.H. staff probably buy their products anyway.

I may use this fact next time I find myself in a win vs. mac debate.
 
Apple fan boys are brain wash for sure. Why else they pay premium, I mean seriously premium for things that are not even consider top of the line.
 
What a bizarre article. Its really sad to see how far Toms has fallen from its glory days. The absolutely blatant bias displayed by the Toms staff for Apple products is sickening. You are supposed to be journalists, show a little professionalism and at least pretend to be neutral. The deluge of pro-Mac fluff articles recently has become a joke.

This used to be a PC hardware site dedicated to interesting tech articles on hardware performance. I always used to consult this site when I bought each new gaming rig, to find out the best performing components, now I have to go elsewhere for this information.

Apple enthusiasts have plenty of their own dedicated sites. Why corrupt a PC hardware site by catering to Apple products? You cant customise them in any meaningful way, and they dont run the same software, so you cant even properly compare them in hardware comparisons.

I think the Toms staff need to have a think about their target audience and realise that most of the people that come here do so for PC based articles. If you are interested in Apple, there are better sites available that are dedicated purely to their product lines.
 
As a media forum, Tom's has a responsibility to NOT promote companies which use things like deception to promote themselves. Hold corporations to a higher standard. If Apple won't play ball and be held accountable, or compete in a fair and open market - I see no problem in not giving them headlines. Tom's PROMOTES, whether you are doing it "neutrally" or not. Mentioning a company name is free marketing. THIS AD PROMOTES APPLE. Any press, is good press.

The issues I have with Apple are as follows:

Removing forum posts of purchasers who have issues with their products.
Smear campaigns, deceptive marketing, etc.

They have a right to price their hardware and OS any way they want. What they don't have a right to do is lie about what they are selling. If a product has an issue, they need to be honest about it and not try to cover it up. Tom's can continually make a huge fuss about things like this, and cut into their sales. I agree though, we don't need to be crying about things like pricing that are not relevant to anything. If you don't like it, don't buy it. There's a reason I don't own an iPod. I prefer the freedom to buy my music anywhere I'd like to.
 
The reason for Apple discontent is not completely without merit among very tech savvy individuals.

I think most importantly, they really live in a proprietary bubble. People like us like to modify, customize, etc. We DON'T want to be pigeonholed. I understand Apple works for some. Though, many of us here rise up and fight against their business model because we don't want to see this type of behavior proliferate through the tech industry. I applaud Google for Android since it is open source available to all handset makers. I don't like being stuck with Symbian, Blackberry, OSX, WebOS, etc. Though Apple is clearly the most restrictive with all their products by a VERY far margin. That is where most of the hate comes from, and I feel like it is not completely unjustified.

You can admit it. The commercials aren't "stretches", but rather lies. Yes, other companies lie as well, so I am not persecuting them for that. It is part of marketing, and unfortunately the FCC sits idle on nearly everything except a split second chest shot during superbowl, but I digress.

As far as competition goes, Apple may force some companies to get better which is of course good for the consumer. However, Apple is very anti-consumer in other ways. For example, every time Palm releases a patch for iTunes, Apple wants to counter with a disabling update. So, I'm not so sure if Apple's behavior a net positive for consumers at large.

On top of that, I will not support a company that makes a concerted effort to stifle free speech. Negative comments about Apple (and I don't mean offensive ones) are removed from their message boards. You are unable to really give an honest judgment of their products on their website. I think most people would agree censorship is unAmerican if nothing else. I'm actually scared that I'll be getting a phone call from their legal department after I post this. I'm not kidding either.

I could ramble on longer, but I hit the crux of my argument.
 
i just hate all this fan boy crap, good job posting this article let it be an example that we dont need stupid comments we are in a world of new things that are coming out just like windows 7, mac os snow leapord etc we need to respect and to enjoy the improvements we all get in life
 
Tuan...I agree with your point, but the Snow Leopard is faster than Windows 7 article tends to stoke that fire. You have to admit the Apple hate comments provide good comedy relief, anyway. That article would have drawn less ire had the test been completed on separate machines with the same hardware. Obviously, the Mac mobo is proprietary, but you could have tested against a comparable PC mobo with the same chipset and processor. And forgive my ignorance, but does bootcamp install windows on a separate partition or is it a windows emulator running virtually within OSX? If it's the latter, you probably shouldn't have printed the story!
 
I hate Apple for a host of legitimate reasons but I do think that attacking the writers of articles here is becoming over the top. I wouldn't even read the comments if I were the writer.
 
I agree with a previous comment poster about TH determining their target audience. I don't hate Apple, but I don't like Mac's either, I don't think they're worth my money, but that's my opinion. I actually recently recommended my friend get a Mac - he only needs it for Final Cut Pro (hes into movie editing, Final Cut is OSX only), and that's it. Otherwise a PC would do the same thing for less money.

I like reading tech articles on here, it is a hardware site after all and I come here often, especially for buying advice. I like the iPhone apps articles. I own an iPod Touch and a lot of the iPhone apps work on it. But the main reason I come on here is advice for upgrading my gaming rig. No Mac could achieve what my gaming PC can, that is, almost limitless hardware customization at very cheap prices (I build myself).

I wouldn't consider myself a fan boy either, as you can see, I own an Apple product (and love it) but I also own a PC (and love that even more lol). But at the end of the day, I come here for new technology comparison. If something better comes out and benchmarks show that it beats the current top end hardware, I really don't care who makes it! If Apple one day came out with a gaming beast, I'd be all over that!

Like I said earlier though, I come here for advice and comparisons. The recent article about Snow Leopard being faster than Windows 7 was biased and quite frankly crap. Even if we took that article seriously, the only benchmark that really mattered was the last one - CoD4 performing better in Windows 7... At the end of the day, I think that gamers and hardware enthusiasts are the main audience here on Tom's Hardware. This is why Apple gets bashed on here so much, because Apple' computers are overpriced (compared to a same spec PC) and aren't as customizable (hardware wise).

Finally, just to clarify, OSX is the product that I/we dislike, not Apple themselves. As I stated earlier, I have an iPod Touch and love it, I thank Apple for this innovative product. It's true that OSX made other companies think more about aesthetics, but I don't believe they bring much more to the table as far as a gamer or hardware enthusiast is concerned.

Now, I'm gonna go to work once my Windows 7 has downloaded.... 😛
 
Did you feel all good about yourself when you finally finished your rant and published it Tuan?

Because that is exactly what happens on the comments following the article on Toms Hardware!

So you have done exactly what you are preaching in your long winded article about what not to comment on do regarding long winded articles.

GET A LIFE!!!!! Comment sections are there for the READERS to say what ever the Heck they feel like, if we were in the Pub and you brought this argument to me I would say exactly the same thing!!!!!! So how is this different!
 
[citation][nom]chaohsiangchen[/nom]It is surprising that certain authors of Tom's Hardware are so incompetent that they feel the need to keep pushing outright lies and promoting BS. Yes, that includes you, Tuan. Given your track record of false reporting, retraction and debunking yourself, you deserve to be fired already. Same with some other authors who do not do their fact check and keep posting unrelated topics. Not to mention the recent surge of misinformation and titular editing to attract hit rate. Now you are blaming us the readers for being unreasonable? Welcome to the real world, where unreasonable readers live. You'd better treat them well since they are the source of Tom's revenue. The only two reason that I still read Tom's are to bash narcissistic authors and any Apple Inc product respectively, just for fun. And keep doing this until all chronic readers are so pissed that they start boycotting without notification.[/citation]

Got a thorn up your ass, or did you just get off the wrong side of the bed this morning?
 
Tuan Nguyen, even though i never called any of Toms employee bad or paid to spread propaganda, I did agree with plenty of comments left below some of the "news". This is why I feel like your very well put post was talking to me too.

I guess it could all boil down to what is newsworthy.

Statements that "windows 7 coming out and plenty of people are getting ready to get a Mac" was as informative as "butterflies are falling in love so the snakes are getting ready to eat some mice". Both (presumably) true, and completely unrelated. Whoever though it newsworthy has some Apple fanism in them.

I'm picking that story out of the bundle, as I think it shows the biasness many of people getting their flame axes lit have a bone with.

A perfect response to that story was:

"The release of Windows 7 definitely makes me want to overpay on mediocre hardware"

bravo to the original poster.
 
I have a PC and a Mac, I like to use all major operating systems and I find that Apple just makes great laptops.

Never really understood the blind hatred. It's great to see someone finally speaking out about it. I've used Windows, MacOS X, Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenSolaris and System i in my years of computing, and I can tell you full out Windows ain't the best thing that has happened to the market nor is MacOS X. Every single operating system has their pros and cons and that also depends on who you are.

I use Windows on my desktop because it suits my needs on my desktop while MacOS X suits perfectly for my needs on my laptop. Windows doesn't solve everything for everyone (and it certainly doesn't). I even run Linux on another box because I also depend on UNIX for educational use and for my college work.

All I'm saying really is, all have their pros and cons, and if the product doesn't suit you, don't bash it, just accept that it's there for others to use. Other people definitely find MacOS X to be useful like me for their applications or else Apple would have been out of business years and years ago. All companies will rise and fall. Remember Windows ME and how that was a disaster as well? Same idea. Microsoft realized their mistake and fixed it with Windows XP. Apple is a lil' slower from their recovery from the late '90s where they almost went broke. Like the article said, the world needs competition. Microsoft having the whole market would be disastrous for consumers.
 
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