I'm done with the hype ..

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pat

pat

Expert
Jan 2, 2001
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Socket 939 CPU are only a marketing product. I have a system, based on a 3000+ 939 and a nforce4 motherboard. I got that to replace my 3000+ 754 with nforce3 motherboard. What a mistake... This 1.8 GHz CPU cannot perform as my 2.0GHz CPU was performing for some task.. And for what remain, I dont see any differences..

Now, I'm thinking to sell the system. I plan to get a 3400+ socket 754 CPU, retail 219$ (newegg, forglobal comparaison), which has the raw power of MHz for encoding and rendering, and the A64 efficient core. Oh, dont talk about the hyped 3500+ venice core.. overpriced IMHO, for what it gave. It is still over 270$ OEM, and I have to get a HSF for it. The retail 3500+ claw. is at 267$. The san diego 3700+ is at 339$ retail... but still a 2.2 GHz CPU...

Coupled with a nice Soltek NF4 board or an Asus NF4 board, for socket 754, and 1 gig of memory, this would make a good base for a powerful system.

I dont plan to overclock, Editing video with an overclocked system is not the best idea on earth.. I once tried to overclock my 3000+, to get at least 2.2 GHz.. but I lost my soundcard while working, then got some bug with my HDD... Oh, it was working great for game .. but when all the subsytem started to worked together.. disaster..

Oh, and what about dual core?? They wont be near affordable at release time, and limited by current chipset performance and software.. I could upgrade when new socket that support better dual core CPU and newer chipset when the newer standard and software started to appears. It is supposed to be H2006.. then maybe at the end of next years, there will be something worth upgrading.. But until then, I dont see anything justifying socket 939 other than overclocking. They are slow, overpriced compared to the same PR in socket 754.

So far, I'm thinking at <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14547&vpn=K8N4-E DELUXE&manufacture=ASUS" target="_new"> Asus k8n4-e deluxe</A> or <A HREF="http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=14401&vpn=SL-NF4-754RL&manufacture=SOLTEK" target="_new"> this Soltek nf4-rl</A> for the motherboard. The Asus cost more, a 159$ Can, but seem to have more feature. The Soltek is well priced at 105$ Can and I always had good luck with my others Soltek. This Soltek, with the 298$ 3400+ will give my a fast system for just over 400$... thing that could not be possible with socket 939 board and CPU... the closest 939 is the 3800+ with 2.4GHz and 512 cache is 512$can or 526$can for the venice.. and only the CPU. the 5-7% difference that dual channel might give doesnt really worth the price, IMHO. And I dont want the 2.2 GHz 3500+, which cost 365$can for the Claw., 392$can for the Winch. and 403 for the venice...


So, if I plan to keep my system for more at least 2 years, or upgrade it when something really new and that really worth it appears, and since reliability and stability is much more important to me than a nice overclock, and given the fact that the 3400+ run at 600MHz faster than my 3000+ and that kind of overclock is not really attainable with stock cooling and not guarranted to be stable all the way, does somebody can give me one good arguemnt to stay with the dying slow socket 939 instaed of upgrading to the better dead 3400+ socket 754 CPU and PCIe motherboard?

Remember that I never upgrade CPU alone.. I always get the best chipset/board/memory to match it. There is no reason to cripple a newer and faster CPU with older and slower chipset..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
I don't think most people were moving to S939 for better performance at the same rating... I think they were either new users (not upgrading from s754 to s939) or wanted better o/cing potential. Of course you're not going to see a performance increase from a 3000+ 754 to a 3000+ 939. You get better upgradability.

<A HREF="http://nfiniti.blogspot.com" target="_new">nfiniti plus one - my blog</A>
 
Oh really? It's weird that plenty of people are hitting 300+ HTT clocks on their DFI nf4s with no mention of this PCI-e locking problem. Although not hearing about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist either...

<A HREF="http://nfiniti.blogspot.com" target="_new">nfiniti plus one - my blog</A>
 
If you don't plan to OC then you shouldn've got S939 in the first place! OC is the sole purpuse of going with S939 while dual-channel is just the icing on the top.
Click to expand...

So why keeping recommending spcket 939 for somebody looking for a plain fast computer?


I dont need an FX chip.. doesnt worth the $$$ that they are sold ..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
So you are saying that nforce4 PCI lock feature is a hoax???

No, everything was locked, except the chipset SATA ports...



<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
thay are supposed to be 940 pins, but not compatible with already existing socket 940 socket.. the 12xx will be for opteron class cpu

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
Pat, All -

Thanks for the thread. Interesting comments and opinions. I was contemplating which way to go if I do an AMD cpu/mobo - so this was very helpful.

Thx. OT
 
If I had a Venice at 1.8GHz, the first thing I'd probably try is dropping the HT to 4x and increase the bus to 250MHz, giving me 2250MHz. Then I'd fine tune it.

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<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
 
Pat,

I'm piggybacking on your thread and seeing if this system would be a nice system - I'd be building a whole new box and moving my current P4 2.8 Ghz/Abit IC7-G/1gig DDR system as a backup ...

Will I be happy with the speed of something like this compared to my current P4 setup ?? I haven't seen AMD in a real life comparison b/c all my boxes are P4s ...

ASUS K8N4-E DELUXE Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD
Model #: K8N4-E Deluxe $116.00 $116.00

POWERCOLOR R43C-TVD3D Radeon X800XL 256MB GDDR3 PCI-Express x16 Video Card - Retail #: R43C-TVD3D $330.00 $330.00

Antec NeoPower ATX 480W Power Supply - Retail $116.00 $116.00

AMD Athlon 64 3400+ Newcastle 800MHz FSB Socket 754 $219.00 $219.00

pqi POWER Series 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory MD441GUOE - Retail 3 @ $87.00 $261.00

-running in raid1- (in theory)
Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 73GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM 2 @ $183.00 $366.00

-running in raid5- (in theory)
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823AS 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM 3 @ $130.50 $391.50

Subtotal: $1,799.50

So... just curious if you were doing the same Pat -- would you pick out some of the same components.

The RAM choices are just so many. I thought having 3 GB would be great since the board supports it and I'm NOT OC'ING this system so thought the cheaper DDR would be fine.

Anyway... just curious what others think.
 
That looks like a nice setup.. I would probably take the Soltek motherboard, if available, but the Asus should be good.
This could blast your current setup and make me envious ..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
May be not.
What do you use your system for? If you are mainly running P4 enhanced progs, you may be really dissapointed.
BTW, with 3 high density sticks of ram, the ODMC may have some problems. If the sytem boots, you will be stuck with memory @ as low as DDR266 speed.
 
The memory controller's gonna crap itself if you put 3x1GB sticks in there. Just to warn you...

<A HREF="http://nfiniti.blogspot.com" target="_new">nfiniti plus one - my blog</A>
 
If he use P4 enhanced software, the extra MHz will make up for that. Remember that where the P4 shine, it is at some rendering and encoding task, where MHz matter...
As for the memory, yes, it may run slower, but I think it is ddr333, and not 266. that should not cut performance that much in real use, only in memory benchmark..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
Using system for ... general business/office apps, internet/browsing, little gaming(light), graphics(photoshop/fireworks/painter etc), media encoding (audio mainly but some video-light).

So... with that - would the P4 be doing a better job than an A64?

I didn't know on the RAM either - so, best bet would be to fill it with 1 Gig in either 2 slots or 1 slot ?? I just don't know on the AMD MOBOs/754s what best way to put RAM in. Like I know on the P4/865-875 ... DualChannel - just fill it will same stick only on 2 of the 4 slots.

Thanks for the input!! Mucho appreciated!
 
The 3400+ MHz advantage over 3000+, 3200+ CPU will be performing as good as a P4, unless it is a 3.2 and + GHz P4. But there wont be a big difference... Some filter in photoshop may render faster on the P4, but other will render faster on the A64. there is no winner really, with high end CPU. Different codecs may encode faster on one machine, while another one will render faster on another machine. An A64 3000+ 939 is clocked a 1.8 GHZ and it is no match for a 3.0 GHz P4 because encoding is MHz dependant. get the 600 MHz advantage the 3400+ has over the 3000+ 939 or the 400MHz over the 3000+ 754 make the difference in those task, and have the other one performing more better than the P4 3.0 GHz.

The 754 socket dont need dual channel, so if you want, you can add one memory stick at the time. Dont need to be in pair.

What I like about a64 is that they are good all around, not only at particuliar task and well priced. I have nothing against Intel, they are just not there now, with their hot core and high price. That may change later. But for now, with the quality chipset that A64 can be matched with, I see no point of not going with AMD.

But it is all about my opinion. but right now, if I had to get something, even with the highly priced AMD X2 around the corner, and newer socket next year, I'm not sure anymore that I will keep my socket 939 system and rather get an inexpensive socket 754 motherboard with a fast 3400+ to make me waiting for better dual core and software optimized to fully use them. Others opinions may differ ..

<font color=red>Sig space for rent. make your offer.</font color=red>
 
IIRC the PCIe bus freq issue was specific to Intel platforms with DDR2. Intel wanted to limit OCs to ~10%, but Abit/Asus have found workarounds, with Asus having really mastered it. One other interesting note is that ATI cards were more tolerant to PCIe bus OCs and could go significantly higher than nVidia cards.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
 
yes yes, and that new socket will be replaced in 2007. you should have gotten used to that by now.

go tell your alien brothers, that ronnie cordova says they're gay!!! <A HREF="http://sockbaby.com" target="_new"> sock baby </A>
 
Earth to Okietex: The P4 will not be surpassed at those tasks you propose to set before it by the lowly socket 754 A64. The A64 will allow you to utilize Win64 when it finally becomes more mainstream but it is not going to walk on a fast P4C doing those tasks afore mentioned. My 3200 Clawhammer and 3.0C are neck and neck at most things.

Abit IS7 - 3.0C @ 3.6ghz - Mushkin PC4000 (2 X 512) - Sapphire 9800Pro - TT 420 watt Pure Power
Samsung 120gb ATA-100 - Maxtor 40gb ATA - 100
Sony DRU-510A - Yellowtail Merlot
 
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