News Intel Comments On Alder Lake's Warping and Bending Issues, Mods Void Warranty

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Johnpombrio said:
Hmm. The socket is made/purchased by the board manufacturers, not Intel. I am sure that the specs for the socket are very precise but isn't it still up to the board inspectors to test the socket with a specified CPU to see if the socket is performing properly? They claim x number of insertions but wouldn't they also note if the holdown is deforming the CPU? It would be trivial to add a shim to mitigate the issue.
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So, ALL board manufacturers are wrong and Intel is right?? Strange, don't you think??
 
This just doesn't make any damn sense. Unless there is a reason to press down that hard, and unless they can express it, they should offer a fix. Better thermals are good for the lifespan of well...everything. A warranty should never be voided if it fixes a problem that the manufacturer left in place, and is non destructive. I would argue they would lose in a lawsuit for trying to void that warranty and...good luck proving it.

What are they going to do ask you to send in your board? What a bunch of bull.
 
JTWrenn said:
This just doesn't make any damn sense. Unless there is a reason to press down that hard, and unless they can express it, they should offer a fix. Better thermals are good for the lifespan of well...everything. A warranty should never be voided if it fixes a problem that the manufacturer left in place, and is non destructive. I would argue they would lose in a lawsuit for trying to void that warranty and...good luck proving it.

What are they going to do ask you to send in your board? What a bunch of bull.
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TLDR: pins push upwards to keep good contact to guarantee high mem, pci, and so on speeds, washers reduce that pressure and could make ram or pci not even work at all, which would make you send the cpu back because you think it's faulty while intel can document it working just fine and send it back on your dime.

Good luck with that lawsuit then.

View: https://youtu.be/ezauy4as4lI?t=1079
 
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TerryLaze said:
Have you ever heard about lapping in relation to overclocking? This is the same thing, no industry can make two things be 100% the exact same or 100% always perfect, there is always some wiggle room no matter how small it is, and this is just that, the heat spreader is expected to warp a tiny bit in a certain percentage of the CPUs manufactured. To manufacture them otherwise would be a huge increase in difficulty and as such in price.

Heck this is the same or even smaller an issue than silicon lottery, every CPU is either slightly faster or slower or slightly more or less efficient, nobody cries murder on that one because everybody understands that this is normal.
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Not that people actually understand this...
 
does every lga1700 board suffer from this?

I don't feel like removing my msi and asrock z690 boards to see if the metal bracket on the back is warped

I put a generous amount of thermal paste and used a card to spread 100% coverage, so I don't think my systems are suffering from anything
 
This is overblown. The CPU does work fine in the default state. I haven't seen any failures attributed to CPU or MB bending. Imperfect cpu/heatsink contact? Welcome to PC building. That's the reason why asetek (and others) have been rounding the bottom of their coolers for years.
 
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They are a company. If they have a problem they have to decide is it worth it to refund everyone so we don't have pissed customers or just bite the bullet and hope it blows over. Every company does it so don't moan about never buying intel again. Primitive.
 
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hotaru251 said:
Perhaps, and im just shooting in dark here, use your QA and design a product that doesnt physically alter the dimensions of your product?
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Instead, they used their legal department to void returns, thus boosting revenue in an accounting sciences sense! Of course, I'm sure the washers put on the CPU for structural support report their every move back to GCHQ! Spooks!
 
Alelanza said:
F6-C18-A8-E-05-E0-4-EF5-8885-6-CB26-D06-F444
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I see convex bending in the photo above; In the video posted in the article (Jisaku Hibi) I see concave bending. I can understand the convex because the pressure is directly on the sides when clamped on to the motherboard...but concave? EDIT: sorry it's the back! sorry!
 
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jp7189 said:
This is overblown. The CPU does work fine in the default state. I haven't seen any failures attributed to CPU or MB bending. Imperfect cpu/heatsink contact? Welcome to PC building. That's the reason why asetek (and others) have been rounding the bottom of their coolers for years.
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Yeah, but it's Intel. Everyone loves hating Intel and bashing at Intel for everything. Had it been AMD, reactions would have been either more subdued, or it would have been brushed aside completely, I guarantee you that. It's quite dumb honestly. As if one company is actually better than the other when it comes to stuff like this...
 
No issues on my retail 12700K with a 360mm AIO and a decent overclock though I certainly am not in the hardcore overclocking side. Temps have been great but may affect those on the 12900K though they already run hot at max loads so this may well be an issue though I doubt it is huge and there could be the usual lottery when it comes to the silicone anyway.....
 
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Another "bendgate"! Does this problem affect ALL current LGA 1700 based motherboards using Intel Alder Lake CPU's?
Are any brands NOT showing this worrying deflection issue with the socket pressure?
 
TerryLaze said:
TLDR: pins push upwards to keep good contact to guarantee high mem, pci, and so on speeds, washers reduce that pressure and could make ram or pci not even work at all, which would make you send the cpu back because you think it's faulty while intel can document it working just fine and send it back on your dime.

Good luck with that lawsuit then.

View: https://youtu.be/ezauy4as4lI?t=1079
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As I said...."Unless there is a reason to press down that hard "

You don't need to push so hard that the heat spreader bends to keep contact. Excess contact likely causes more issues. Unless you need that level of pressure...as I originally said....there is no reason at all to void the warranty.
 
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JTWrenn said:
As I said...."Unless there is a reason to press down that hard "

You don't need to push so hard that the heat spreader bends to keep contact. Excess contact likely causes more issues. Unless you need that level of pressure...as I originally said....there is no reason at all to void the warranty.
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Can you prove in a curt of law that it doesn't need that much pressure?!
Because intel engineers will provide all the prove in the world and convince everybody that it is needed, no matter if it really is needed or not.
Also as I already said, if you make the contact worse and get loss of features, how would that be intels fault and why would they have to honor the warranty in that case?
 
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TerryLaze said:
Can you prove in a curt of law that it doesn't need that much pressure?!
Because intel engineers will provide all the prove in the world and convince everybody that it is needed, no matter if it really is needed or not.
Also as I already said, if you make the contact worse and get loss of features, how would that be intels fault and why would they have to honor the warranty in that case?
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Yikes dude. Right now nobody is saying that it causes issues to lower the pressure, ther is evidence that it is not required. The pin grid is very similar albeit larger than passes iterations, they did not bend their heat spreaders with pressure. There is a lot of evidence that it is over the top and deliterious to the function of the chip. Ie it doesn't run as fast and throttles more and is hotter.

If they want to roll that proof out, great. Right now the proof from the modders is out there and shows it is not necessary and problematic. Given the proof we have, this should not void warranties.

Notlbody is talking about making the contact worse. They are talking about lowering the pressure the optimal levels for heat and contact. Even the video posted in response to my comment says they see no issues.

Why are you acting like Intel couldn't have simply screwed up and is being as horrible about it as we have come to expect from most large corps?
 
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JTWrenn said:
Yikes dude. Right now nobody is saying that it causes issues to lower the pressure, ther is evidence that it is not required. The pin grid is very similar albeit larger than passes iterations, they did not bend their heat spreaders with pressure. There is a lot of evidence that it is over the top and deliterious to the function of the chip. Ie it doesn't run as fast and throttles more and is hotter.

If they want to roll that proof out, great. Right now the proof from the modders is out there and shows it is not necessary and problematic. Given the proof we have, this should not void warranties.

Notlbody is talking about making the contact worse. They are talking about lowering the pressure the optimal levels for heat and contact. Even the video posted in response to my comment says they see no issues.

Why are you acting like Intel couldn't have simply screwed up and is being as horrible about it as we have come to expect from most large corps?
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The only proof you can see in those videos is a , at most, 5 degree lowering of temps which makes zero difference to the normal operation of the CPU.
I was answering to someone that thought it would be a good idea to sue intel about it, and I stand by what I said, between engineers from intel and modders the courts are going to believe the engineers.
 
TerryLaze said:
The only proof you can see in those videos is a , at most, 5 degree lowering of temps which makes zero difference to the normal operation of the CPU.
I was answering to someone that thought it would be a good idea to sue intel about it, and I stand by what I said, between engineers from intel and modders the courts are going to believe the engineers.
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Arguable. I say that because the video you posted sure seemed impressed by that 5C and got a decent amount of extra headroom for overclocking and felt his general performance was much better. The idea that it would be hard to prove in court I totally disagree with. You could easily have a lab do a test for needed pressure to ensure contact, and have some engineers put together a report on it. If it came to a class action because these things start failing due to the bending, or mobos start having issues because of backplate bending....all things your own video said could be problems, then there would be a case.

Is it worth all that? No not likely, but in the face of bs corporate we will cancel your warranty for no reason because it could make us a buck, I think it should be brought up.

In the end whether it could be won in court or not, it's a crap way to treat your customers when they see poor thermals on high end cpu's that are unlocked for overclocking due to an engineering fault, to some degree in the design. They deserve crappy pr responses for it. If it really needs that much pressure, which I doubt, then they should have reinforced the backplates and the heat spreader. The real truth is it likely doesn't but once they discovered the issue they wrote it off as good enough. Then some corporate d bag said "we can't have people easily fixing our mistakes, it makes us look dumb! Also, we could save some on warranty rejections!".

This whole thing smells of corporate d baggery, and corner cutting. Does it ruing the product? Oh hell no! Was it a mistake? Absolutely. Is voiding warranties for fixing that mistake a valid response? Absolutely not.

Now I know you are going to say something like "we don't know it was a mistake, it was by design!", but right now all evidence shows that a small lowering of pressure makes the product better, and causes no issues. That means right now, the evidence points to a mistake in design somewhere, and they doubled down with a mistake in the pr department.
 
This freaked me out when I first heard of it just weeks after a fresh i5 12600 build. I'm using an MSI Pro board and an Arctic LF 2 cooler. My temps are great though. The CPU idles under 30c and has only maxed to 61c during gaming. Is this something we should expect to happen over time, or should we be seeing the results of this issue now? My build is only about a month old at this point.
 
Greyfire10 said:
This freaked me out when I first heard of it just weeks after a fresh i5 12600 build. I'm using an MSI Pro board and an Arctic LF 2 cooler. My temps are great though. The CPU idles under 30c and has only maxed to 61c during gaming. Is this something we should expect to happen over time, or should we be seeing the results of this issue now? My build is only about a month old at this point.
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Over time.
This primarily affects i9 owners. i7 users and lower should still be in the clear with thermals, even after a little warping has occurred.
 
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