It doesnt matter. Because even if you oc ryzen to the max possible, its still slower than alderlake. Only the 5900x can be on par with 5950x is slightly faster due to more cores. The ryzen CPUs are already performing very close to their peak frequencies. Increase voltage drastically does not really improve clocks much.
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It doesnt matter. Because even if you oc ryzen to the max possible, its still slower than alderlake. Only the 5900x can be on par with 5950x is slightly faster due to more cores. The ryzen CPUs are already performing very close to their peak frequencies. Increase voltage drastically does not really improve clocks much.
It's the same with Alder Lake too, both are pushed to the max, yet Alder Lake has worse efficiency.
That V-Cache is made for gaming and add +100/200Mhz more on the clock and "poof" goes Alder Lake. Even now Alder Lake does not win across the board in everything... or by a minimum of 15% or more, so these points should give a good clue about what's possible with Zen3D vs Alder Lake.
If Alder Lake would have been a roflstomp of +30% more performance across the board in everything vs Zen3, then yes, even Zen3D could not beat that. But it is not that case, not at all, no matter how much some people want to twist reality and the truth.
I am loosing trust in Tom's Hardware, first the Gigabyte motherboard article without mentioning the power supply fiscal and how poorly it was handled by Gigabyte. There should be a con for every Gigabyte review until Gigabyte addresses the problem in an acceptable way. And now this article which appears to be written by an Intel fanboy stacking the deck. Tom's Hardware can do better, please do so!
larkspur
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The 12700k competes with the 5900x. The 5800x competes with the 12600k. The 12700k and 5900x need the same class cooler. The 5800x and 12600k need the same class cooler. The total platform costs are a wash. Most of the cheap Z690 boards offer better connection options than the cheap x570 and b550 boards. Unless you are upgrading to a Zen 3 CPU, or have a very specific use-case, it doesn't make sense to build a new system with Zen 3 right now. If there are additional price cuts then we can debate it then. Right now, Zen 3 needs to come down further in price to remain competitive in new builds.
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/7MCk68
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 3.7 GHz 12-Core Processor ($494.00 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $653.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-28 09:41 EST-0500
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/67Tcqp
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($340.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($159.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $500.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-28 09:41 EST-0500
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dNj8LP
CPU: Intel Core i7-12700K 3.6 GHz 12-Core Processor ($414.89 @ B&H)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $624.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-28 09:42 EST-0500
PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/8YvzBc
CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K 3.7 GHz 10-Core Processor ($299.99 @ B&H)
Motherboard: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 ATX LGA1700 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $509.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-11-28 09:43 EST-0500
larkspur
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You might want to not insult those unfortunate souls who bought a 300-series AMD chipset. Many of those boards do not have BIOS updates to support Zen 3. Remember that AMD said they would support AM4 through 2020, but didn't say anything about specific chipsets.
wifiburger
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you do realize AMD loves to nuke PBO performance of prev gen when new CPUs get released ?
there's no difference on Zen2 now for PBO on,off with latest bios if you need the security fixes, rebar and memory OC improvents !
so yeah, having crazy PBO in the charts is not helping anybody compare results; not to mention the crazy instability you'll hit with PBO, Undervolting, cstate over boosting & general crap quality from AMD when it comes to CPU packaging
and why stop at just PBO, manual OC on Intel for example will hit freq that are higher then stock single core boost
Which is perfect if they are not on Zen 3 and on AM4 they can upgrade.
not sure what point you are trying to make here.
Why_Me
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It's been going downhill for years now, slowly and steady and it's not the only place... I can name almost a dozen tech sites and YT channels that are more promo platforms than anything else...
I mostly watch these for entertainment and to see how far they can fall into unprofessionalism. I don't trust any of them.
The same as explaining to you the concept or morality, as in journalism integrity and journalism professionalism, but it would be a waste of time, hence your question...
For the last 20 months, official pricing has meant almost nothing to the consumer and there are countless articles here on tomshardware that point this out over the last year and a half. The issue that i was pointing out is that Toms used an asspull price for the 5800x and that for the sake of methodology, that they need to stick with one standard for all parts in the comparison, be it actual retail pricing or msrp. You dont do a processor review with processor A under an AIO and processor B under an air cooler.
the 142w limit is a socket limitation, not a processor heat limitation. I can set PPT to 300w in bios and my processor will not draw anywhere near that, Its usually in the ballpark of 200w. With both the custom loop system and 280mm aio system, temps may peak at 80c with a full avx2 load, they settle down to low to mid 70s. I didnt need the custom loop for the 5900x, I needed it for the rtx 3090 that was roasting every other component in my case. That $95 aio offers the same cpu cooling as my loop which tells me that the chiplet design is running into the laws of thermodynamics.
Thats great that intel is confident in pumping 241w into the 12900k because no motherboard manufacturer has enabled by default a tau timer to drop it from its 241w MTP to its 125w PBP. The consumer needs to enable that to reach that 125w limit. You're going to want a 360mm aio to properly cool it as demonstrated here. My 5900x under the 280mm aio averages about 65c under avx2 loads on default settings.
At the end of the day, Alder Lake is a great return to competition from Intel. We have AMD to thank for that, for had they not started competing at the high end again, Intel would still more than likely be pushing out Skylake variants with yearly 5-10% performance gains. Alder Lake are great processors and are the fastest on the market currently and if they are within budget for a new build, should be the ones most people go for. However, I'm not so convinced that if you have an Intel 10th/11th gen or AMD Ryzen 3000/5000 that you should eat the cost of a complete platform change for the performance offered by Alder Lake
Why_Me
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Those are all news... not reviews. The guy you asked the question to was referring to a review of a MB from them.
Anyway, my issue is not with just ONE thing only, but the entire direction this site and others like it are going, so it's not just about ONE issue...
i absolutely agree. the ryzen 7 5800x at $300 at microcenter is priced about right in my opinion. amd needs to make that price official. the 5900x needs to come down to the $400 range
not from my experience. i threw a 3300x in my b550-i and played around with pbo and had it boosting past its 4.3ghz max stock boosts with no issues. regarding "crazy instability" ive never seen it after ive found the correct negative offset in curve optimizer for that particular processor. heck, i accidently had a 5600x at -30 offset for a few months and had zero issues, not even a single whea error in that time.
your intel fanboy talking points and lack of experience with am4 are showing 😉
M42
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There's no "truth" possible until there are Zen3D CPUs.
Until then, Alder Lake single-core performance has over 20% lead on the fastest Zen3 CPU. So, even if Zen3D has a 20% single-core performance increase it would only match Alder Lake. And Intel is already fast at work on the next-gen CPUs, so there is no time for AMD to lag.
This is great for us consumers though!
-Fran-
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Because when you're way under the throttling range, 10°C is not important; notable, yes, but won't make your CPU behave incorrectly or any other part in the PC to burn. And the efficiency is not that important there, I agree. The key takeaway is if you cap the 12900K (or 12700K) to their PL1 TDP/Power, you will effectively be better off with a Ryzen CPU, even if it runs 10°C warmer. That's the important takeaway.
Ryzen CPUs are only limited by the motherboard power delivery and cooling. My board can drive any Ryzen CPU to 300W if they can go all the way up. Do you need to or even want to? Not really. You can though, just like you can get an Alder Lake to 400W, much like previous 14nm gens. Dimishing returns kick in quickly though, but a manually OC'ed 5950X to all-core 4.7Ghz can beat Alder Lake more often than not in MT while still holding its own in games and such. Also, using slightly less power as well.
And I, personally, prefer a Ryzen CPU because I already have a X470 motherboard and I'm just waiting for something interesting (price-wise) to upgrade my 3800XT (upgraded from a 2700X). Too bad the 5800X is just now going down to $300 with Zen3D so close. I'll just wait and see how Zen3D compares to both Zen3 and Alder Lake. Worst case scenario, I still get a 5800X, but for a much much lower price than launch, so all good.
Again, if you need to cap the 12900K at 125W because your cooling is not up to snuff, then you made a big mistake getting it. I don't even know why you'd want to cap it at 125W... For games? Then get a 12600K instead? I don't get your logic here...
Anyway, I'll stop here.
Regards.
spongiemaster
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What are you talking about? AMD has nothing at all to do with the development of Alder Lake. Are you thanking Intel for the Ryzen 5000 series because Intel kicked AMD's ass for a decade? That makes no sense. The development of new CPU architecture from AMD or Intel takes years from start to finish so it is impossible for either side to just release something as a response to what the other side is doing. The only real time response they can have to the other is price.
Despite being an Intel user here, I feel this supposed comparison seems very one sided. For example, when I look at pricing, I consider the full build, which I don't think an Intel system cheap. Yet the comparison on pricing then took on another tangent to soften the cost of an Intel Alder Lake build, and talked about motherboard features that should have been another category to compare. For those who wants the most out of something like an i7, I believe you will need no less than a mid range motherboard which will add on to the cost.
The only area where the writer/reviewer likely begrudgingly gave AMD the win is in power consumption, which is very obvious.
There is no doubt Intel's ADL performs great, but there are significant hurdles to adoption, which likely explains why we still see good availability of ADL chips across the entire range so far. In where I stay, there are plenty of ADL chips, but most motherboards support DDR5, and there is not a single store (brick and mortar or e-platforms) that sells DDR5. DDR4 motherboards are low/ limited in supply. The same goes for CPU cooler where most distributors have not received the mounting brackets for LGA 1700, and very very limited coolers that support LGA 1700 straight out of the box.
The only area where the writer/reviewer likely begrudgingly gave AMD the win is in power consumption, which is very obvious.
There is no doubt Intel's ADL performs great, but there are significant hurdles to adoption, which likely explains why we still see good availability of ADL chips across the entire range so far. In where I stay, there are plenty of ADL chips, but most motherboards support DDR5, and there is not a single store (brick and mortar or e-platforms) that sells DDR5. DDR4 motherboards are low/ limited in supply. The same goes for CPU cooler where most distributors have not received the mounting brackets for LGA 1700, and very very limited coolers that support LGA 1700 straight out of the box.
I agree about the "no time for AMD to lag". They should have launched Zen3D now, in December, to not let intel breathe at all. But they won't, for whatever (I'm sure justified) reasons...There's no "truth" possible until there are Zen3D CPUs.
Until then, Alder Lake single-core performance has over 20% lead on the fastest Zen3 CPU. So, even if Zen3D has a 20% single-core performance increase it would only match Alder Lake. And Intel is already fast at work on the next-gen CPUs, so there is no time for AMD to lag.
This is great for us consumers though!
Don't forget AMD is also "fast at work" on the next gen CPUs too, Zen4. I really think, based on the leaks so far, that Zen4 will come before Raptor Lake, so I think intel should hurry by that time not AMD. AMD will have a 2nd launch before intel gets another one...
I agree. From a performance standpoint, I don't think AMD contributed in ADL's performance. I believe ADL should have been sitting there waiting for 10nm to be ready for a number of years now.
However, there are 2 things that I feel AMD contributed to,
1. ADL's release - Given that Rocket Lake failed to recapture performance crown, Intel needs to release something quick to counter Zen 3. This is evident when both Rocket Lake and Alder Lake got release in the same year,
2. ADL pricing - If you leave either Intel or AMD unchecked, each one will start maximising the profit margin.
I feel the truth is both companies should be on their toes now to try and outperform one another, and that is a good outcome objectively. Intel on their own have stagnated the performance growth on PC as shown in the past decade or more. The same would have happen to AMD on their own.
As to getting Zen 3 refresh out, it is not as simple given all these supply crunch everywhere. And from observation, I feel Zen 3 processors are still outselling Intel Alder Lake processors even though the latter is more performant. At least this is what I observed where Amazon listed the 5800X as the best selling CPU. I believe one of the reason for it being a top seller is because it can be an easy cost effective upgrade for existing AMD motherboard users. Currently there are too many limitations with ADL that hinders adoption. For example, I was quite excited about ADL, but when I tried looking for an ITX board, there are only a few options. DDR5 is nowhere to be found, so that limits me to DDR4, and I still can't find a DDR4 based ITX board. Then I need a new cooler, and I can't find one that comes with out of the box LGA1700 support. I think the ones I found are from MSI and Lian Li, so the pickings are slim. Add a buggy Windows 11 into the mix, and I decided to put the plan to the back burner.
It speaks of the general morallity and ethics of the company. If Gigabyte is unwilling to correct the PSU division then that smell reeks throughout the whole company.
M42
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I believe that Intel is currently moving faster than AMD.
AMD launched Zen3 just over a year ago and its performance outshined Intel Comet Lake's single-core performance by 10-15% and clobbered in multi-core. Since then Intel has launched Rocket Lake, which caught up to Zen3 in single-core performance, and now Alder Lake, which has dramatically higher single-core performance. And, even with fewer total cores, Alder Lake beats Zen3 in multi-core performance in many applications. The tables have turned in just 12 months with Intel producing huge back-to-back improvements in performance. If Zen3D is not spectacular AMD may have to do what it has had to do in the past to remain competitive: cut prices.
M42
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There are probably more, but a quick Google search found a Z690 ITX motherboard with DDR4:
https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-z690i-aorus-ultra-ddr4/p/N82E16813145351
Noctua will soon have LGA1700 ready CPU coolers but offer a free LGA1700 backplate if you have a cooler that didn't come with one. I couldn't wait so I bought one off of Amazon for about $9 about a week ago.
Sorry what? Rocket Lake is the biggest pile of **** intel launched in a while, so no back to back improvements there and certainly Rocket Lake did not catch up to Zen3 single core performance... synthetic benchmarks do not count at all when real gaming scores show the opposite.
You may praise Alder Lake all you want, although noting about it is impressive, but Rocket Lake is a big pile of poo, even intel engineers agree on that (unofficially, of course).
This is the reality of Rocket Lake:
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