News Intel Core i7-12700K vs AMD Ryzen 9 5900X and 5800X Face Off: Intel Rising

[M42]

Put context to that 110 points difference: ~10% improvement, but... You sacrifice 2 cores, requiring a new platform and way more heat/power. This is not even considering you can close the gap by OC'ing the 10900K (or just getting a 10850K and doing the same) as both are K parts and have, more or less, the same clock ceiling. I fact, I think the 10K series OC's slightly better because they suck* less power overall. Good things I know about 11K gen: DDR4 IMC is vastly improved and can use >4.2K MT/s kits easily, has PCIe4 (I think?) and can use previous gen coolers (as long as they can actually cool them). Those things you can measure and assign value, but it doesn't negate all the downsides.

Tradeoffs, right?

Regards.

Yes, there are tradeoffs! I believe Intel specifically targeted the improvement of single-threaded performance with the goal of matching Zen3. I believe Intel succeeded or at least came very close. Most people do not use 16-cores, or even 8-cores in day-to-day applications, including games. So, even though the 8-core 11900K's multi-threaded performance was a little behind the 10-core 10900k's, it was not that far off. And, the single most important improvement in RL was a roughly 15% improvement in single-threaded performance, but most of the YT videos fail to highlight this.

 

[M42]

And, BTW, despite being two cores down the much higher single-threaded performance of the 11900k is why its multi-threaded performance is not far behind the 10900k's.

 

[btmedic04]

This is just completely false on all counts. AMD and Intel are not the driving force behind each other's product development. Industry demand and stock holders are. If either Intel or AMD disappeared, neither industry demand nor stock holder demands would suddenly disappear. It would be impossible for Intel to increase revenue and make stock holders happy if they weren't continually developing better CPU's that entice customers to keep upgrading. No constant stream of new products for customers to upgrade and the company will die a slow death. What is one the main forces behind TSMC's steady climb to fab dominance? It's not competition from Samsung or Intel, it's truckloads of money being dumped at their front door from Apple to help fund development of new process because Apple always wants to release better and more efficient products on a regular cadence. Industry demand is driving TSMC, not what their competition is doing.

you completely missed the part where i said innovation. competition inspires innovation. would we have seen performance increases? yes, like the yearly 5-10% performance increases we saw from intel when amd was stuck using bulldozer, not the rapid performance increases that we see now. in a year we have seen 4 new architectures between AMD and intel compared to the 10 years of quad core cpus i mentioned previously. You want to know why apple throws boat loads of money at tsmc? because apple has competition with the arm architecture as a whole which is pushed forward by qualcom, mediatek, samsung to name a few. they innovate rapidly because they have to in order to stay relevant and increase sales to appease their stock holders. apple of all companies would love for nothing more than to have zero competition so they could reduce their development tempo and bank the reduction of their r&d budget.

your strawman argument actually shows why competition is necessary and why fanboys of one particular company are foolish. the only thing we as consumers should be fanboys of is performance and competition period.

 

[spongiemaster]

you completely missed the part where i said innovation. competition inspires innovation. would we have seen performance increases? yes, like the yearly 5-10% performance increases we saw from intel when amd was stuck using bulldozer, not the rapid performance increases that we see now. in a year we have seen 4 new architectures between AMD and intel compared to the 10 years of quad core cpus i mentioned previously. You want to know why apple throws boat loads of money at tsmc? because apple has competition with the arm architecture as a whole which is pushed forward by qualcom, mediatek, samsung to name a few. they innovate rapidly because they have to in order to stay relevant and increase sales to appease their stock holders. apple of all companies would love for nothing more than to have zero competition so they could reduce their development tempo and bank the reduction of their r&d budget.

I didn't miss anything. Constant development of new products and releasing products that entice people to upgrade directly implies there has to be some level of innovation going on. 5-10% performance increases will not persuade people to upgrade. This was demonstrated by how long people hung on to Sandy Bridge systems. There was no reason to replace an overclocked SB system for years until Coffee Lake. Intel got stuck in a rut because they screwed up moving to 10nm. This had nothing to do with AMD and wasn't done by design. While the manufacturing side was busy screwing up, the architecture side was continuing to churn along and things got backed up. This is why we're seeing so many new architectures from Intel in such a short time. Again, nothing to do with AMD.

If you have a actual legit argument to make, you don't used canned generic attacks (incorrectly in your case here) like strawman and fanboy.

 

[btmedic04]

I didn't miss anything. Constant development of new products and releasing products that entice people to upgrade directly implies there has to be some level of innovation going on. 5-10% performance increases will not persuade people to upgrade. This was demonstrated by how long people hung on to Sandy Bridge systems. There was no reason to replace an overclocked SB system for years until Coffee Lake. Intel got stuck in a rut because they screwed up moving to 10nm. This had nothing to do with AMD and wasn't done by design. While the manufacturing side was busy screwing up, the architecture side was continuing to churn along and things got backed up. This is why we're seeing so many new architectures from Intel in such a short time. Again, nothing to do with AMD.

If you have a actual legit argument to make, you don't used canned generic attacks (incorrectly in your case here) like strawman and fanboy.

again, you prove my point with this statement. amd was not competing with intel between sandy bridge and skylake. thats why people stayed with their sandy bridge systems for so long. thats why i stayed with my ivy bridge platform until zen 2 launched. there wasnt enough performance improvements during this period of time to justify upgrading because there was no competition and the yearly 5-10% peformance increases were not worth the cost to me. you are interpreting what i said as literally amd helped intel design alder lake which is not the case. amd helped motivate intel to speed up their product cadence and increase the performance of their architecture because amds performance with zen 2 was getting uncomfortably close to 9th gen and then zen 3 proved superior to 10th and 11th gen. a competitor that has a superior product is a threat to shareholders bottom line and at the end of the day, thats what speeds up innovation. industry demand alone gets you 5-10% yearly performance gains. competition gets you from rocket lake to alder lake

 

[systemBuilder_49]

W
Why did you state this incredible lie?

the 12700 has an igpu and wins by default against the 5700g

DID YOU NOT REALIZE THAT THE EIGHT VEGA GPUS IN THE 5700 G WILL BEAT ANY INTEL IGPU BY 50% OR MORE AT 1080P? That's a fact. The margin is even higher for Ryzen 6000 series laptop chips!

 

[M42]

You are misreading the text. The GPU comparison in the article is between the12700K and 5800x/5900x, not 12700k vs 5700G. It says you would have to look to the 5700G if you want integrated graphics, but that cpu (the 5700G) is not directly comparable to the 12700k.

Here is the quote from the article:

"The Core i7-12700K comes with integrated graphics by default, though you can sacrifice those for a lower price point. Meanwhile, you'll have to look to AMD's Ryzen 7 5700G APU if you want integrated graphics, but that chip isn't really directly comparable to the 12700K. That means Intel wins by default if you need an iGPU. "