Intel Core i7-3770K Review: A Small Step Up From Sandy Bridge

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SuperVeloce

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well yes, I said it too fast. 90nm is supposedly gate pitch, which shrunk to ~70% of Sandy size. Gate length (not transistor size) is supposedly 22nm or more. it's interesting that gate lengths did not scale well in last few node shrinks. At 65nm process, gate length was around 35nm. 3gate and 3D makes it even harder to understand and to visualize relative sizes.
 

jfizzle4321

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Kind of ironic, people were harassing me over not waiting for ivy and opting for SB-E and the rampage-iv motherboard. Now Unreal Engine 4 is said to work with pci 3.0 and keplar only and the motherboard has 4 pci3.0 express lanes.
 
[citation][nom]jfizzle4321[/nom]Kind of ironic, people were harassing me over not waiting for ivy and opting for SB-E and the rampage-iv motherboard. Now Unreal Engine 4 is said to work with pci 3.0 and keplar only and the motherboard has 4 pci3.0 express lanes.[/citation]

How is it ironic? Unless you want to use three or four graphics cards, Ivy Bridge will be slightly faster for gaming and definitely way more power efficient, all while having PCIe 3.0 support. Even with four graphics cards in SLI or CF, the two would not be noticeably different. Also, it's Kepler, not keplar.

SB-E is better for productivity, not for gaming.
 

jfizzle4321

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According to some benchmarks 2600s and 2700s are slightly better than Ivy for gaming at stock clocks and Ivy isn't overclocking..so with an h100 or a custom cooling solution SB has more potential for gaming... and according to other benchmarks SB-E is almost identical or better by a hair compared to SB. I'd pull up the comparisons but it really isn't too important to me to win an internet disagreement. A few people on another site pushed the 3820 beyond 5.0 even though the multiplier is "semi-unlocked." So if you want to overclock, want to game and want to moderately future proof your system (PCI3.0), AND you enjoy using software such as Acid, Vegas Pro 11 and Adobe After Effects then SB-E is the way to go.

While an MSI overclocker got the 3770k to double frequency (from 3.5 - 7.0), a lot of 3770k chips are overheating at 4.5. One of the reasons is the paste being used between the CPU die and IHS is acting more like an insulator than a conductor, there are obviously other reasons too.

I do have 2 cards, right now and if things get more demanding I'll get another 2, or if I want to I'll set up 16 TVs in my bar, I'll use my current build when I build my next rig in 3 years.

Whilst it may just be my opinion, Ivy Bridge's main purpose was to decrease voltage, as you stated, and it was to add more graphics computation to a processor for the direction of the market (the increase in tablets and other mobile systems).
 


That truly is what Ivy was for, mainly just a die shrink to reduce power usage and a graphics upgrade to go with it. Haswell will be the performance upgrade.
 

jfizzle4321

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I try to switch it up every few years, I went from a q8200 on a 775 to a qx9650. Allegedly they're coming out with a socket 2011 IB-E but we'll see. I think you're right with Haswell. I'll skip a few generations and then I'll upgrade in another 3 years. I want to upgrade the graphics card on my qx9650 rig and put Raceroom on it and use it in a race chair.
 

army_ant7

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]SB-E is better for productivity, not for gaming.[/citation]

Just to make a little more clear to any others reading, Sandy Bridge-E's and Sandy Bridges can be on par, but I bet your statement took into account what you're paying for an SB-E and what it yields (which sometimes a negligible more, a negligible less, or just plain nothing worthy of notice), esp if you have to pay about $200 more (not sure) to get the similar performing SKU's to the SB's, IN GAMING (just for emphasis).

[citation][nom]jfizzle4321[/nom]According to some benchmarks 2600s and 2700s are slightly better than Ivy for gaming at stock clocks and Ivy isn't overclocking..so with an h100 or a custom cooling solution SB has more potential for gaming... and according to other benchmarks SB-E is almost identical or better by a hair compared to SB. I'd pull up the comparisons but it really isn't too important to me to win an internet disagreement. A few people on another site pushed the 3820 beyond 5.0 even though the multiplier is "semi-unlocked." So if you want to overclock, want to game and want to moderately future proof your system (PCI3.0), AND you enjoy using software such as Acid, Vegas Pro 11 and Adobe After Effects then SB-E is the way to go. While an MSI overclocker got the 3770k to double frequency (from 3.5 - 7.0), a lot of 3770k chips are overheating at 4.5. One of the reasons is the paste being used between the CPU die and IHS is acting more like an insulator than a conductor, there are obviously other reasons too.I do have 2 cards, right now and if things get more demanding I'll get another 2, or if I want to I'll set up 16 TVs in my bar, I'll use my current build when I build my next rig in 3 years. Whilst it may just be my opinion, Ivy Bridge's main purpose was to decrease voltage, as you stated, and it was to add more graphics computation to a processor for the direction of the market (the increase in tablets and other mobile systems).[/citation]

Well, performing better isn't always better in my opinion. Future-proofing makes sense, but if they perform similarly, why bother with an SB and not go with an IB for all those non-performance (except graphics, which in the context of this subject is negligible, except for the new and improved Quicksync)? Oh wait! I just remembered now about those new features by LucidLogix like that more efficient V-sync-like feature and the removal of the need to not have your discrete graphics there to utilize Quicksync. It would be awesome if they could load-balance some of the gfx workload onto the HD4000, well, at least for less CPU demanding titles since I heard an active HD4000 impedes the TurboBoost of the CPU portion, unless you have a better cooler and/or overclock, which disabled TurboBoost.

Back to what I said about better not always being better, some games are already gfx bottle-necked before the CPU can benefit much, and when we're talking about high-end, it could be overkill already, as in your system would be churning too many frames for your monitor to display (refresh rate dilemma). You'd want to turn on V-sync then and I, personally would want to underclock my GPU and CPU for titles that don't need that much power. Less electricity, less heat, and longer equipment life as I heard.

You sound like a real power user jfizzle4321, and I think SB-E suits you well. I bet you'd even be happier when game, and other apps, producers start employing those unutilized cores/threads of your SB-E, assuming you have a hexa in your system. But for a lot of us, SB/IB are good enough for us for now. You guys are probably gonna laugh at me, but I only have a Core i3-2120. I know... I'll try shooting higher next time if I rake in enough cash to splurge a bit.

On a side not, I don't know if you guys will hate me for saying just in case you guys hate AMD more or just love Intel more, but I hear AMD's gaining some momentum (improvements) with its Piledriver core. I really can't wait to see how Jackhammer (is it?) then Excavator would turn out. And with their APU's, if OpenCL and other GPGPU API's kick off A LOT more, we can see more of a challenge for Intel. I've been excited for APU's long before they came out, and though you may say it's been a let down, my excitement is still there since they're still going at it, Trinity seems well for more budget-oriented gamers at least on the mobile space. But I hope they do come up with the perfect marriage of good CPU and GPU performance and better Dual-graphics support (and hopefully it won't just end at dual). *sigh* how one could dream of a neck-and-neck competition by Intel and AMD, just like the gfx space, somewhat, since Nvidia is being competed with by AMD in terms of price rather than performance (at least generally gaming performance).

So yeah, we'll still have to wait (a fairly long time) and see. For now, I'm pretty okay with my humble Core i3. And thanks if anybody read this through and sorry if I sounded like a newb up there. Just some of my thoughts (which for the most part I guess, were derived from good old TH reviews, mostly if not wholly). :-D
 


I think that Steamroller is Piledriver's successor.
 

jfizzle4321

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]I think that Steamroller is Piledriver's successor.[/citation]

Ya, it was a tough decision for me, I wasn't sure which way to go between SB and SB-E but I actually have the quad (3820). I volleyed with a guy on a website and he said I went in the wrong direction and should have got the 2600k and that it was superior and cheaper. The reality was that I spent $70 more. The other reality is that the site he referenced and the benchmarks he gave were strictly for his cause reminiscent of Michael Moore "Documentaries." When I went to the actual site and looked at benchies, my 3820 was slightly superior (by an extremely small margin). Regardless, It was the Asus Maximus for the 2600k or the rampage-iv extreme for the 3820. Believe it or not, the Rampages ridiculous overclocking potential, combined with pci-3.0 compatability and 4 pci slots plus how well the hexes did in workstation effectiveness sold me. I like having headroom. I know the next best thing was going Ivy from a SB socket but I also know that in 3 years the SB-E hex-chips will be cheaper if needs be. Also, as stated earlier, I eventually want to power 12-16 TVs in my bar and use a cable card to run something, but that will be when I build my next rig in a few years.
 

army_ant7

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[citation][nom]jfizzle4321[/nom]Also, as stated earlier, I eventually want to power 12-16 TVs in my bar and use a cable card to run something, but that will be when I build my next rig in a few years.[/citation]

When you say "12-16 TVs," do you mean cloned or spanned/extended? I doubt you'll be using Eyefinity. Just curious about your setup. :)
 

jfizzle4321

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I apologize for the delay. I want to eventually use 3 or 4 graphics cards and take advantage of every display output (4 per card). I would set them up on the wall like:


(D=Display)

D D D D
D D D D
D D D D
D D D D

or:

D D D D
D D D D
D D D D


I've seen eyefinity portrait using 5 displays, the main power behind the idea is using a tuner card. I read somewhere on the web that a tuner card can be utilized by as many outputs as you have and that you can use as many TVs as you want. I'll have to look into it closer. I would love to have the option of running 12-16 different sporting events or to configure all 12-16 as one monitor. I use nVidia and I'm not sure how more than 3 TVs/Monitors can be configured as one, if possible at all, I know right now I have 3 configured and one more output to an accessory 47" and I'm using 2 680s. The 12-16 monitor set up is a pipe dream for now but so was having 3 120hz in surround and so was having a 47" connected... the latter 2 are obviously actualized. I'm sure there's software SOMEWHERE, that will allow it, hopefully it will be native to nVidia. I actually emailed nVidia for any suggestions.
 

army_ant7

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You might have to use something business/commercial-oriented for what you're planning with all those TV's. If you've seen them before, some talk shows and other stuff seem to use a grid of multiple TV's sometimes with the picture spanned on them.

If ever, you seem like a kind of guy who might be able to afford that. So good luck to you! :) I'm curious now as to how many people you have to kill to get 2 680's? Hahaha! Anyway, thanks for the conversation and will be on the lookout for any new posts.
 

jfizzle4321

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Ya it's just my hobby, I'm not loaded but I own my vehicle as opposed to making payments and I don't have a wife or kid so I can be self-centered. As far as the 680s? I kept refreshing and was going back and forth with evga's website, newegg, tiger and unfortunately dell. I called dell and had two PNYs coming and my receive date was initially the end of March. I looked at the invoice again and it said mid-May so I cancelled. I went to evga's website and there's a spot that says "where to buy." I called every place and a little place called "Central Computers" based in California had a few and I snagged them. Believe it or not, they're out there. NCIX had a few too.
 

rnikora

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Chris - Great Review !

Would it be possible to get the thermal characteristics that you saw in your overclocking efforts. Specifically, I would be interested in the thermals for 4.0GHz, 4.1GHz, 4.2GHz, etc.

Thank you !!
 

baishulianmeng

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i am quite curious about some benchmark softwares used here like LAME, rather than some multicore supported ones like mediacoder, which is free, and xilisoftware etc.. since xp, which by the way was launched like decade ago, supports multicore cpus, no mention vista and 7 or 8, why is this pretty lame software LAME still used as a benchmark?
 
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Get a grip, the Ivybridge may do something for the enviromental head's, but while we use the Amazon and Australian resource's, to our downgrade, think again...
 
[citation][nom]brianogog[/nom]Get a grip, the Ivybridge may do something for the enviromental head's, but while we use the Amazon and Australian resource's, to our downgrade, think again...[/citation]

What downgrade? Ivy is not a downgrade. If you simply change out the paste between the CPU die and the IHS, it can overclock significantly better than SB and it already has slightly better performance at the same frequency. It's a time-consuming process, but it's not difficult.
 

army_ant7

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[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]What downgrade? Ivy is not a downgrade. If you simply change out the paste between the CPU die and the IHS, it can overclock significantly better than SB and it already has slightly better performance at the same frequency. It's a time-consuming process, but it's not difficult.[/citation]

Is it easy getting the IHS (That's the metal plate on top of the CPU right?) off and back on? What's up with Intel's decision to use crappy paste? To intentionally decrease performance, which would be stupid since it could and probably has wrecked the sales of their K-edition IB's?
 
[citation][nom]army_ant7[/nom]Is it easy getting the IHS (That's the metal plate on top of the CPU right?) off and back on? What's up with Intel's decision to use crappy paste? To intentionally decrease performance, which would be stupid since it could and probably has wrecked the sales of their K-edition IB's?[/citation]

It takes a while, but it's not difficult to remove the IHS (yes, the metal cover over the CPU die). If I had to guess, I'd say that Intel used the paste to stop Ivy Bridge from being able to beat SB-E in anything. It would suck for Intel to yet again have their top-dollar processors not the best in everything like what happened with the i7-2600K versus the six core Guftown processors from LGA 1366.

The 2600K was able to beat them in gaming performance because it could overclock just as far, if not farther, yet already had higher performance at the same clock frequency. Ivy Bridge, without replacing the paste, is no match for SB-E and it can't even beat SB. Intel probably wasn't really worried about heavy sales of enthusiast Ivy Bridge CPUs from the start because most enthusiasts would be expected to skip Ivy and go for Haswell.

With fluxless solder (what is usually used) instead of paste, Intel would have people who would have shelled out over $600 to $1000 on the top processors now spending $300-$350 on IB processors with superior gaming performance. IB CPUs are almost definitely cheaper to make than the much larger SB-E CPUs, but the difference is likely a very small fraction of that price difference. Intel would be losing out on profit. People whom aren't willing to pay that much would have gotten an i5 or quad core i7 anyway, so Intel doesn't really lose much by doing this. The only loss here would be the few people who like to upgrade ASAP, yet aren't high-budget buyers and want to upgrade from SB to another affordable platform. These people are a lower-profit niche than the very high end niche with people who have a similar "must upgrade ASAP" mind-set.

Well, this is my understanding of it. I'm not in Intel, so I can't honestly say that I know for sure why they do what they do.
 
[citation][nom]tourist[/nom]blaze did you read this ? http://www.maximumpc.com/article/n [...] mperaturesthermal past is cheaper than solder[/citation]

That is true, but Intel couldn't have done this purely because it is cheaper. It really isn't much cheaper. The costs of manufacturing (including the TIM being used) are not very high for processors and their prices are already mostly profit. With the smaller die size, they could already be cheaper when manufactured in bulk.
 
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