Intel - stopping poor children from getting computers

[inztigator]

Dudes and Dudettes...

I live in South Africa, and have to agree with some comments made on this topic.

I personally don't see this OLPC programme working. I see it as a total disaster, considering the cost of even a $100 laptop, and secondly logistics, etc.

FOOD, SHELTER, and access to HEALTH services is what is needed for the greater population of AFRICA.

A laptop can provide for educational purposes, but keep in mind, that most of Africa's poor cannot read or write, so a laptop means absolutely NOTHING to them. Not forgetting the CORRUPTION that WILL take place, should a program such as the OLPC ever kick off.

As for the peeps who feel Intel have scammed the project, I say get a life. Its mostly AMD fanboys that are commeting such. Its to be expected.

Laterz

 

[Zorg]

As far as your comments about Africa and medicine and the value of PCs there, first we need to eliminate the genocide, or maybe you think that PCs are more important.

That's what the education communication stuff is for. Oh, I see, we'll just talk to them and make them understand. The groups that are committing the genocide are animals. They don't give a sh!t. On the upside they will all have new laptops, the roving bands of killers that is.

 

[flasher702]

One of them will last for several years. One of them won't.

First, what makes you think/know that the PC will last several years in the harsh environment in which they will be. Second, what makes you think that the PC, assuming that it actually gets into the hands of a child, won't be sold or traded for food, clothing etc. What would you do if you had a PC and were cold and hungry? Would you trade it for food? I know that I would in a heartbeat.

READ THE DAMN WEBSITE! www.laptop.org It's all covered there. You think you're the first person to think of these obvious problems? OLPC project has been working on them for years. The laptop is designed and tested to be durable. The B2 model has been out for a year now. The laptops are distributed to children and designed to be attractive to children and consequently unattractive to adults and they're really not useful for anything other than education and communication. Also, since they are NOT GIFTS they can't exactly be "traded away". The communities that use them BOUGHT THEM. It's part of the concept of the project since it's inception. And they are distributed as part of education programs and designed to help the children develop a sense of ownership of them. They'll hoard a piece of candy but will just trade away a the coolest thing they've ever had? They really are only worth how much they are selling them for and steps are taken to eliminate resale avenues and resale value. This is an OPEN project. It's had input from many people. It's not some group of techs in an cube farm somewhere designing something to try and make money. If you found an actual problem with the OLPC project you could go and fix it, or at least point it out.

*sigh* at least you seem to care a lot more then you originally stated. That's good.

 

[Zorg]

Riiight. Sure, I believe you/them, it's all good.

 

[PCnut]

To be horribly blunt: they DON'T need food. Food grows right up out of the ground. I've done it. I didn't have any freaking computer and I lived on a farm. They need education to be able to create sustainable healthy societies and ward off predatory organizations and leaders that seek to exploit them.

This dose show how naive you really are. How dose food grow out of the gound when you live in a city of millions. Also even if you do not live in city how are you going to grow food with out rain or good soil because of bad farming practice and years of war??? these people will get so much more out of 170 dollars wroth of food than they will laptop. what good is education with out opportunities to work??? A job to take care of your family will do more to "ward off predatory organizations and leaders that seek to exploit them" than a pc will that is for sure. with work comes all other things. And you said these people that run these charities have been to these countries, this you will never Convince me. They have been to these countries but they only see what the local governments want them to see and know. They do not get there hands dirty and most have never had to work for a living or worry about putting food on table for there family. I have!!! Listen to inztigator and you are so naive if you think security forces will ever work.. YOU and most people do not realize that american is one of the few countries that puts a value on human life so this will never work. "education communication stuff " jobs not this will make these countries better but they will never be what we want them to be because they have a different culture.. Nothing wrong with it or them we need to stop pushing our values off on other countries and people. And how do you communicate and educate people that can not read or write with a pc??????

 

[flasher702]

A laptop can provide for educational purposes, but keep in mind, that most of Africa's poor cannot read or write, so a laptop means absolutely NOTHING to them. Not forgetting the CORRUPTION that WILL take place, should a program such as the OLPC ever kick off.

1. You don't need to be able to read to use an OLPC. It has an 800x600 color screen, graphical interface.

2. The OLPC can be used to teach reading.

The corruption problem is a real challenge. Saying that someone can't use a computer because they can't read is stupid. My 2yo nephew can play starcraft.

 

[flasher702]

This dose show how naive you really are. How dose food grow out of the gound when you live in a city of millions.

Did I not say education for sustainable societies??? Why is there a city of millions without enough food? Lack of education. Also corruptions, which is also partly due to lack of education.

You also brought up the "but they can't read" argument. I'm dumbfounded. That is the most retarded argument against the OLPC ever. The absolute worst. The electrical supply argument was better and yet you STILL didn't read up on the project, did you?

 

[Zorg]

*sigh* at least you seem to care a lot more then you originally stated. That's good.

It's not that I don't care, It is probably a good idea in areas where the basic needs have already been met. But if the community has no food or basic facilities for sewage or is constantly under attack by marauders, then these needs must be addressed before a PC has any value.

 

[PCnut]

One of them will last for several years. One of them won't.

First, what makes you think/know that the PC will last several years in the harsh environment in which they will be. Second, what makes you think that the PC, assuming that it actually gets into the hands of a child, won't be sold or traded for food, clothing etc. What would you do if you had a PC and were cold and hungry? Would you trade it for food? I know that I would in a heartbeat.

READ THE DAMN WEBSITE! www.laptop.org It's all covered there. You think you're the first person to think of these obvious problems? OLPC project has been working on them for years. The laptop is designed and tested to be durable. The B2 model has been out for a year now. The laptops are distributed to children and designed to be attractive to children and consequently unattractive to adults and they're really not useful for anything other than education and communication. Also, since they are NOT GIFTS they can't exactly be "traded away". The communities that use them BOUGHT THEM. It's part of the concept of the project since it's inception. And they are distributed as part of education programs and designed to help the children develop a sense of ownership of them. They'll hoard a piece of candy but will just trade away a the coolest thing they've ever had? They really are only worth how much they are selling them for and steps are taken to eliminate resale avenues and resale value. This is an OPEN project. It's had input from many people. It's not some group of techs in an cube farm somewhere designing something to try and make money. If you found an actual problem with the OLPC project you could go and fix it, or at least point it out.

*sigh* at least you seem to care a lot more then you originally stated.
That's good.


Yes they will trade them away for food, clothing, medicene and you can not fix something like the OLPC because this is people that really have no idea what problem is and just want to do something so that people will think it is something good and make them look and feel good. visit these countries before you take a group of peoples word or even mine about what will or will not help. education is not wroth a damn with our jobs!!! And yes they will have value the people that are criminals will gladly pay for them so that they can say they have one if for no other reason. but another reason is they dont want people educated. think and educate your self and form your own ideas do not listen to just one person especially do not listen to academics as they do not live in real world.

 

[inztigator]

1. You don't need to be able to read to use an OLPC. It has an 800x600 color screen, graphical interface.

2. The OLPC can be used to teach reading.

The corruption problem is a real challenge. Saying that someone can't use a computer because they can't read is stupid. My 2yo nephew can play starcraft.

Dude, have you ever been to Africa? I live here. There is a major difference with the intelligence of a 2 year old "POOR" african child, and my 2 year old daughter or your 2 year old nephew!

My daughter knows the alphabet, can count to 10, has the required co-ordination to use a pc mouse.

The 2 year old African boy can identify his family members, only knows how to eat with his hands and stares at a passing by vehicle as if it were a UFO.

Your nephew who plays Starcraft is exposed to intelligence around him. They have access to TV, radio, etc.etc

You cannot begin to compare the two.

You could offer the kid a 42" plasma screen with a graphical interface, and he would choose to play with the bones he found in the dirt.

 

[flasher702]

gahhH! I have to vent more about the "but they can't read" argument. Did you never play video games as a child??? Never read a picture book? Were you never able to figure out how to turn on the TV and change the channel to watch cartoons? The thing has speakers on it, it could freaking talk to them. What on earth makes you think that someone needs to be able to read to use a computer that's been purposefully designed for child education?

I am going to bed. At least Zorg, as purposefully irritating as he is, comes up with good points (even if some of them are already well under control).

 

[inztigator]

gahhH! I have to vent more about the "but they can't read" argument. Did you never play video games as a child??? Never read a picture book? Were you never able to figure out how to turn on the TV and change the channel to watch cartoons? The thing has speakers on it, it could freaking talk to them. What on earth makes you think that someone needs to be able to read to use a computer that's been purposefully designed for child education?

I am going to bed. At least Zorg, as purposefully irritating as he is, comes up with good points (even if some of them are already well under control).

You FAIL to see the POINT that to see pictures, you need to interpret what you are seeing, and its purpose.

Get your INTELLIGENT A$$ to AFRICA, and see these KIDS for yourself!!!!!

Nuff said

 

[flasher702]

1. You don't need to be able to read to use an OLPC. It has an 800x600 color screen, graphical interface.

2. The OLPC can be used to teach reading.

The corruption problem is a real challenge. Saying that someone can't use a computer because they can't read is stupid. My 2yo nephew can play starcraft.

Dude, have you ever been to Africa? I live here. There is a major difference with the intelligence of a 2 year old "POOR" african child, and my 2 year old daughter or your 2 year old nephew!

My daughter knows the alphabet, can count to 10, has the required co-ordination to use a pc mouse.

The 2 year old African boy can identify his family members, only knows how to eat with his hands and stares at a passing by vehicle as if it were a UFO.

Your nephew who plays Starcraft is exposed to intelligence around him. They have access to TV, radio, etc.etc

You cannot begin to compare the two.

You could offer the kid a 42" plasma screen with a graphical interface, and he would choose to play with the bones he found in the dirt.

yeah, it sounds like you life in a nice isolated well-off neighborhood and don't ever really have to interact with these children that you so casually equate their intelligence and aptitude as being inherently inferior. We have people like you here in USA too 😉 Being familiar with western eating utensils and automobiles are cultural differences, not intellect differences. You basically said that they didn't know how to use a fork and were too stupid to be taught how to use a fork. Only an a$$hole of the highest order would say something like that about an entire social group of 2yo children.

 

[flasher702]

You FAIL to see the POINT that to see pictures, you need to interpret what you are seeing, and its purpose.

And they are also too stupid to understand pictures? Infants can recognize pictures starting at 3 months old.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0009-3920(198106)52%3A2%3C714%3AROMPFB%3E2.0.CO%3B2-E

Recognition of video on a TV starts at 18 months
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=27321

You don't know anything about children do you? Two year olds too dumb to understand pictures?! You're incredible. Child education is really well outside my realm of expertise but I did work as a substitute teacher's aid in a 2.5-5yo on several occasions and even in that short of a period of exposure I managed to notice that the toddlers in the next room played with puzzles and the infants in the room past that played with shape toys (some of which were also very simplistic puzzles), and the 2.5 year old who couldn't read and barely spoke his native language of russian and barely understand english could pick the cup with his name on it out of the pile of 30 most of the time. You put WAY too much stock in your parenting skills. Children are like giant sponges. Learning is what they do.

I'm really not able to stop myself from coming to the conclusion that you're a well-off, white, racist, south african guy... please correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to start back-pedaling on the "little African children are too stupid to understand pictures" and similar comments anytime.

 

[inztigator]

yeah, it sounds like you life in a nice isolated well-off neighborhood and don't ever really have to interact with these children that you so casually equate their intelligence and aptitude as being inherently inferior. We have people like you here in USA too 😉 Being familiar with western eating utensils and automobiles are cultural differences, not intellect differences. You basically said that they didn't know how to use a fork and were too stupid to be taught how to use a fork. Only an a$$hole of the highest order would say something like that about an entire social group of 2yo children.

I did say they don't know how to use eating utensils. And NO, I didn't say they were too stupid to learn, but it will take a REAL A$$HOLE like yourself to try and give an uneducated, hungry, and mostly ill-healthed child a laptop, so he can educate himself.

I live in a 3rd world country, not a RICH 1st world country like yourself. The under-privelaged children in Africa don't give a rats a$$ about a laptop that is going to display PRETTY pictures.

People like you think the worlds problems are going to be solved by offering charity in the form of a laptop. Seriously, rather sell these laptops to YOUR children, in exchange for something these African kids can actually use! Like knives and forks.

 

[djgandy]

Let me see if I have your complaint correct...
1) Someone started a program to sell cheap system to third world countries in hopes of raising the computer literacy rate in those areas.
2) Another company had the audacity of offering one of those countries an even cheaper alternative.

I fail to see the problem here. It sounds like a win win situation for the kids in these areas. At a cheaper price, the governments are even more likely to go along with purchasing the systems for the kids in their countries. Hopefully, they will buy even more of them at this cheaper price. Since that is Dr. Negroponte's stated goal, what is the error? Is he just annoyed the someone else is the one to do it? Is he worried that someone may steal some of his spotlight or headlines?

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds like he wants to be the one in the limelight. Or he's catching some major kickbacks from people to do it and is worrying about his honeydew pot drying out.

I agree.

Plan: Kids get laptops cheap.
Kids got laptops cheaper. Whats the problem?

 

[inztigator]

I'm really not able to stop myself from coming to the conclusion that you're a well-off, white, racist, south african guy... please correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to start back-pedaling on the "little African children are too stupid to understand pictures" and similar comments anytime.

* Well-off yes. I worked my a$$ off for what I have.

* Racist? Any black South African, would probably say yes. You on the other hand, have not experienced what I have and do, as a white south african. I give more to black children's charities than in a month, than what you have in your lifetime!

* I cannot draw this any clearer. You seem to fail to see the freaking PICTURE! Posting links with reference to studies means sqwat. Recognition of video on a TV starts at 18 months. They havn't got a 4-walled room to sleep in, and you are talking about them understanding video on a TV.

I am arguing the point that they havn't got basic necesseties of life and don't need a laptop, and you are worried about the way I am describing these kids as un-educated, or my parenting skills.

 

[Zorg]

One last thing. I assume that these PCs will have internet access? If so, then they will be valuable to everyone.

 

[inztigator]

yeah, it sounds like you life in a nice isolated well-off neighborhood and don't ever really have to interact with these children that you so casually equate their intelligence and aptitude as being inherently inferior. We have people like you here in USA too 😉 Being familiar with western eating utensils and automobiles are cultural differences, not intellect differences. You basically said that they didn't know how to use a fork and were too stupid to be taught how to use a fork. Only an a$$hole of the highest order would say something like that about an entire social group of 2yo children.

You forutunately live in a safe and free environment. You are not exposed to serious crime on a daily basis.

But ofcourse, you are quick to label me as a well-off white racist. You seem to like to paint many with one brush.

 

[Zorg]

Um uh... oh never mind :roll:

 

[PCnut]

I'm really not able to stop myself from coming to the conclusion that you're a well-off, white, racist, south african guy... please correct me if I'm wrong and feel free to start back-pedaling on the "little African children are too stupid to understand pictures" and similar comments anytime.

* Well-off yes. I worked my a$$ off for what I have.

* Racist? Any black South African, would probably say yes. You on the other hand, have not experienced what I have and do, as a white south african. I give more to black children's charities than in a month, than what you have in your lifetime!

* I cannot draw this any clearer. You seem to fail to see the freaking PICTURE! Posting links with reference to studies means sqwat. Recognition of video on a TV starts at 18 months. They havn't got a 4-walled room to sleep in, and you are talking about them understanding video on a TV.

I am arguing the point that they havn't got basic necesseties of life and don't need a laptop, and you are worried about the way I am describing these kids as un-educated, or my parenting skills.


you are wasting your time inztigator. i do not think Flasher702 has any idea what the real world is like. he has never seen anything like you are talking about to understand. i am from USA but have worked in angola, nigeria, congo, all up and down the ivory coast. and it really makes me mad the stupidity of people like this that has not ever seen anything like this. and unforchanantly most people in usa and europe are like this. they say i have been to mexico or seen poor people in large cities in USA but they have no idea what they are talking about. he dose not understand that i have worked with grown men that had never seen a glass before much less have any idea how to operate a PC and the same with their children. i know for a fact because i have spent time in their homes that have 2 walls, no electricity, no food, nothing and they treat me like i am a king... the children are amazed by my straight hair and my watch. Flasher702 has lived a sheltered life and gets his ideas not from the real world but from academics that have no idea what the real world is like. i hated the time i was in university because of the stupidity of the professors and their narrow view of the world. these people are teaching because they can not make it in the real world. i work with my brains and my hands as i am a electrical engineer in the real world. i actually get my hands dirty working as a electrical supervisor because i enjoy the work. he has no idea what he is talking about so do not waste your time with him.

 

[inztigator]

Bud, laptops will do more for south africa than your feeble bickering will. When you introduce technology into the hands of near stone age societies you throw education into a massive forward movement.

Bud, when you come ova and live in south africa, then comment on what laptops will do for this country. And besides, I have yet to see one of these so called "AMD / negroponte" laptops ever make it to one of those kids.

If you cannot see what the ramifications are , you are blind. One of those kids will have an impact on computing one day, Thanks to AMD and negroponte; Intel is the shark latecommer lookng for future profit. On the market AMD began establishing.

Yeah, I have to agree. AMD are doing this from the bottom of their WARM hearts :lol:

I hope the kids there are good hearted enough to appreciate AMD's efforts for what they are. AMD has been doing this for years while intel was looking for the next IP holder to bully.

Perhaps they will send AMD a 'Thank You' card from the laptops they got.

Saying those kids dont need it is idiotic, education for them will expand now ,and maybe those po kids will take their country back from whitey.How about that?

Yeah, they probably will take the country from whitey. That will at least put a smile on an ignorant fool like you. Well, at least until they eat everything 'whitey' built, and go into civil war of which your tax money is gonna be spent on bringing peace back to.

Perhaps you forget, that your so called USA belonged to natives. That in its most basic form is racism. But you wouldn't see that if it hit you in the face.

 

[Zorg]

Perhaps you forget, that your so called USA belonged to natives.

They came over from England and were starving and freezing at Jamestown. The Indians were nice enough to feed them. So to repay the Indians they took their land and slaughtered them. I can't put my finger on it, but something just doesn't seem right about that.

 

[inztigator]

How many potentially brilliant minds suffer the indignity of people like you not realizing their potential and feeding it?

So why don't people like you take your finger out your a$$ and do something to feed these so called brilliant minds :?:

Oh wait, I forgot, you are too busy trying to fight a war in Iraq, displacing millions daily for your benefit, while you try and design a piece of plastic that is going to educate someone who is hungry.

And you talk about dignity...Hmmmm

 

[inztigator]

Perhaps you forget, that your so called USA belonged to natives.

They came over from England and were starving and freezing at Jamestown. The Indians were nice enough to feed them. So to repay the Indians they took their land and slaughtered them. I can't put my finger on it, but something just doesn't seem right about that.

LOL.....10 points to you :lol: