News Intel's CEO Fires Back at 3nm Delay Rumors

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SiliconFly

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No offense, but do you remember the last time Intel actually delivered a crucial die shrink on time (that is, when they initially annouced the target date?) Funny, me neither.

This (2023) is the last year during which AMD & TSMC will be able to effectively compete with Intel (on par). Starting late next year, the entire play field is changing drastically to Intel's advantage. From 2nm, to ipc, to density, to tiles, to foveros 3d stacks, to smaller dies, to frequency, to power-efficiency, to gaa-fet transistors, to backside-power-delivery, to latest asml's exes. And some of these are going to be exclusive to Intel for the next couple of years! Deal with it.
 

shady28

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I don't think the DoD contract is for 20A. Intel 20A is a lean and mean purpose-built node for it's own client group and not for external clients. But, Intel 18A is a full-fledged "fat" node (like TSMC N3 & Intel 3) with all the support tools, pdks & libraries designed for a wide range of customers.

Intel 4 will be the last node designed specifically for high power Intel products. Intel 3 is essentially a conversion of Intel 4 into lower power, denser, foundry node. Intel 3 alone already has > $4B in contracts, which means the IFS portion of their business will see explosive growth in the next 2 years (should at least double revenue).

Qualcomm is also slated to use 20A. MediaTek Intel 3. Dod 20A then 18A. Not sure about Amazon.


Ref:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1684...tomer-qualcomm-jumps-on-board-for-20a-process

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-ifs-lands-3nm-to-make-3nm-chips-for-major-customer
 
If you really believe the the world's chip clients are willing to trust IFS in it's current state, then you're more naive then I thought.
Look at how fast IFS is getting external customers.
Nobody has faith in IFS until they do a proper seperation.
MediaTek, AWS, Qualcomm and the US DoD are apparently nobody to you then? AMD is never going to use IFS barring a nightmare situation that forces them to, Apple seems to stick with whomever provides them the best node, and Samsung uses their own. I've seen nothing one way or the other regarding Broadcom, but I know they're in line for N3 with TSMC. Nvidia has admitted to talking with IFS regarding future nodes and that about rounds up the major advanced chip companies.

Intel 7 costs more than TSMC's N7/6 due to the required multi-patterning and Intel is still installing EUV machines into their fabs (for Intel 3/4) so there aren't any advanced nodes available right now. Intel 3 has a major customer announced, but not one they're naming at this time, and MediaTek's first contract is for Intel 16 (modified 22nm). The 20A/18A nodes are the first ones designed with external partners in mind as the others were all deep into production design before the IFS pivot. This inherently limits the amount of volume and type of customers they can have right now.

You're projecting your own assumptions regarding IFS customers which don't appear to be based on anything other than your feelings. I've seen no evidence that would indicate a lack of trust has anything to do with gaining customers, but if you have some please share.
 
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Kamen Rider Blade

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MediaTek, AWS, Qualcomm and the US DoD are apparently nobody to you then? AMD is never going to use IFS barring a nightmare situation that forces them to, Apple seems to stick with whomever provides them the best node, and Samsung uses their own. I've seen nothing one way or the other regarding Broadcom, but I know they're in line for N3 with TSMC. Nvidia has admitted to talking with IFS regarding future nodes and that about rounds up the major advanced chip companies.

Intel 7 costs more than TSMC's N7/6 due to the required multi-patterning and Intel is still installing EUV machines into their fabs (for Intel 3/4) so there aren't any advanced nodes available right now. Intel 3 has a major customer announced, but not one they're naming at this time, and MediaTek's first contract is for Intel 16 (modified 22nm). The 20A/18A nodes are the first ones designed with external partners in mind as the others were all deep into production design before the IFS pivot. This inherently limits the amount of volume and type of customers they can have right now.

You're projecting your own assumptions regarding IFS customers which don't appear to be based on anything other than your feelings. I've seen no evidence that would indicate a lack of trust has anything to do with gaining customers, but if you have some please share.
Great, you got 4 Customers.

https://www.tsmc.com/english/aboutTSMC/company_profile
In 2022, TSMC served 532 customers and manufactured 12,698 products for various applications covering a variety of end markets including high performance computing, smartphones, the Internet of Things (IoT), automotive, and digital consumer electronics.
 
The total number of customers is hilariously unimportant, especially when TSMC has a single customer making up over a quarter of their revenue and the top 10 combining for around 60%.

Intel has historically had several smaller customers using older nodes to make extra revenue on old equipment which is exactly what TSMC does as idle fabs cost a lot. Expanding the volume available in older nodes is exactly what the Tower Semi acquisition is about.
 

bit_user

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This (2023) is the last year during which AMD & TSMC will be able to effectively compete with Intel (on par). Starting late next year, the entire play field is changing drastically to Intel's advantage. From 2nm, to ipc, to density, to tiles, to foveros 3d stacks, to smaller dies, to frequency, to power-efficiency, to gaa-fet transistors, to backside-power-delivery, to latest asml's exes. And some of these are going to be exclusive to Intel for the next couple of years! Deal with it.
You're presuming perfect execution by Intel and poor execution by AMD and TSMC. That way lies hubris.

Both AMD and TSMC have been growing at such a pace that we haven't yet seen what they're capable of doing with all the resources they've been able to ramp up, in the past couple years of record revenues. In this Anandtech interview, Ian Cutress points out that Zen 5 was already being designed way back in 2018 (with Zen 1 only having launched in 2017!).

"I have this annual architecture meeting where we go over everything that's going on, and at one of them (I won't say when) the team and I went through Zen 5. I learned a lot, because of nowadays as running the roadmap, I don't get as close to the design as I wish I could. Coming out of that meeting, I just wanted to close my eyes, go to sleep, and then wake up and buy this thing. I want to be in the future, this thing is awesome and it's going be so great - I can't wait for it. The hard part of this business is knowing how long it takes to get what you have conceived to a point where you can build it to production."​

That interview was written in 2021. I assume the mentioned architecture meeting wasn't in 2018, but probably no later than 2020. I think we haven't yet begun to see AMD at its full capabilities.
 
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SiliconFly

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You're presuming perfect execution by Intel and poor execution by AMD and TSMC. That way lies hubris.

Both AMD and TSMC have been growing at such a pace that we haven't yet seen what they're capable of doing with all the resources they've been able to ramp up, in the past couple years of record revenues. In this Anandtech interview, Ian Cutress points out that Zen 5 was already being designed way back in 2018 (with Zen 1 only having launched in 2017!).

"I have this annual architecture meeting where we go over everything that's going on, and at one of them (I won't say when) the team and I went through Zen 5. I learned a lot, because of nowadays as running the roadmap, I don't get as close to the design as I wish I could. Coming out of that meeting, I just wanted to close my eyes, go to sleep, and then wake up and buy this thing. I want to be in the future, this thing is awesome and it's going be so great - I can't wait for it. The hard part of this business is knowing how long it takes to get what you have conceived to a point where you can build it to production."​

That interview was written in 2021. I assume the mentioned architecture meeting wasn't in 2018, but probably no later than 2020. I think we haven't yet begun to see AMD at its full capabilities.

Sounds like I just watched a James Bond movie: Your statement is wrong on so many levels. It holds true for TSMC. But not for poor AMD. i mean literally! AMD's has a non-existent war chest. It's a tiny company with a few products.

AMD was not a player 5 years back. And even in the last 5 years, with their cutting edge products, they didn't gain much market share from Intel. Intel still holds 80% client CPU market share!!!! On the dGPU front AMD holds 9% market share!!! You read that right, just nine percent (rest is all nvidia and some intel arc). It's kinda sad actually.

And like AMD, Intel too always works on technology 5 years into the future at least. Actually, it's vice-versa. Intel's 18th gen plans have already leaked!!! Intel has been doing it for many many years way before AMD.

And an important architectural fact which most AMD fanboys turn a blind eye is Zen 4 is on TSMC N5 and Raptor Lake is on Intel 7 which is comparable to TSMC 7nm, Inspite of the obvious disadvantage, Raptor Late still beat Zen 4 in almost all performance metrics. Zen 4 was dead on arrival. It took Zen 4 + 3D vCache to restore performance crown. No one should ever forget that. Meaning, if you put Raptor Lake in TSMC 5nm, it'll beat Zen 4 by a mile!!! Simply put, Intel's Core architecture isn't weak compared to AMD by any means.

Today's news reaffirms the fact that Intel's bleeding-edge nodes 20A and 18A are almost-ready already. 20A Taped Out today!!! It's a miracle! And Intel already has TSMC's 3nm capacity too for some of their tGPU tiles. When AMD comes out with Zen 5 in the end of 2024, Intel will already be on an much much more advanced 20A node with the powerful Arrow Lake beating AMD's power/perf by a mile. Zen 5 will be dead-on-arrival like Zen 4.

Like i said, 2023 is going to the last year AMD can keep up with Intel. Starting Q3 next year, Intel is all set to rewrite history books. They delivered Alder Lake on time, They delivered Raptor Lake on time, They're all set to deliver Meteor Lake on time (actually ahead). And they're pretty much on track to release the mighty Arrow Lake on time.

Sorry for disappointing you! :)
 

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Sounds like I just watched a James Bond movie: Your statement is wrong on so many levels. ...
TL;DR: nuh uh!


an important architectural fact which most AMD fanboys turn a blind eye is Zen 4 is on TSMC N5 and Raptor Lake is on Intel 7 which is comparable to TSMC 7nm, Inspite of the obvious disadvantage, Raptor Late still beat Zen 4 in almost all performance metrics. Zen 4 was dead on arrival.
I didn't miss that. It's clear how Intel pulled out a win - they used frequency (and power) to compensate for what they lacked in IPC. That's why Raptor Lake's performance drops so much, when you start to put its power consumption on a diet.
130507.png

It's also why Zen 4 actually beats Intel where it counts: laptops and servers.

if you put Raptor Lake in TSMC 5nm, it'll beat Zen 4 by a mile!!!
Tricky hypothetical, though. Process nodes have different frequency/voltage scaling characteristics. Maybe Raptor Lake couldn't clock as high, on TSMC N5. Anyway, if Intel had been on a denser node, I believe they would've adjusted the design to take advantage of it.

We'll see how this plays out in Meteor Lake. That's both a denser node, and probably one that doesn't clock as high (hence, no desktop CPU).

When AMD comes out with Zen 5 in the end of 2024, Intel will already be on an much much more advanced 20A node with the powerful Arrow Lake beating AMD's power/perf by a mile. Zen 5 will be dead-on-arrival like Zen 4.
It's like I said: it's a risky bet to assume perfect execution by one team and sub-par performance by the competition.


Intel is all set to rewrite history books. They delivered Alder Lake on time, They delivered Raptor Lake on time,
Eh. They delivered Comet Lake on time, They delivered Rocket Lake on time.

They're all set to deliver Meteor Lake on time (actually ahead).
But what's this I hear about no Meteor Lake for desktop? Sounds like an "oops", to me.

And while we're talking about on-time delivery, Sapphire Rapids' unprecedented delays demand attention.

Anyway, dissent noted. We have no choice but to wait and see.
 

SiliconFly

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TL;DR: nuh uh!



I didn't miss that. It's clear how Intel pulled out a win - they used frequency (and power) to compensate for what they lacked in IPC. That's why Raptor Lake's performance drops so much, when you start to put its power consumption on a diet.
130507.png

It's also why Zen 4 actually beats Intel where it counts: laptops and servers.


Tricky hypothetical, though. Process nodes have different frequency/voltage scaling characteristics. Maybe Raptor Lake couldn't clock as high, on TSMC N5. Anyway, if Intel had been on a denser node, I believe they would've adjusted the design to take advantage of it.

We'll see how this plays out in Meteor Lake. That's both a denser node, and probably one that doesn't clock as high (hence, no desktop CPU).


It's like I said: it's a risky bet to assume perfect execution by one team and sub-par performance by the competition.



Eh. They delivered Comet Lake on time, They delivered Rocket Lake on time.


But what's this I hear about no Meteor Lake for desktop? Sounds like an "oops", to me.

And while we're talking about on-time delivery, Sapphire Rapids' unprecedented delays demand attention.

Anyway, dissent noted. We have no choice but to wait and see.

Like I always said, this is the last year AMD will be able to effectively compete with Intel. Starting next year, Intel takes the lead. It's not a prediction, it's a industry fact.

Ok. Honest question. Meteor Lake seems to be on track on Intel 4. It's coming out Q3 this year. What coming for AMD? A Zen 4 refresh on an inferior TSMC N5 node???? That would be tragic! Remember Zen 4 itself was dead on arrival against Raptor Lake (only their 3D Vcache saved the day). Due you think a Zen 4 refresh will stack up against Meteor Lake or is it the beginning of the end for AMD?
 

bit_user

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Ok. Honest question. Meteor Lake seems to be on track on Intel 4. It's coming out Q3 this year. What coming for AMD? A Zen 4 refresh on an inferior TSMC N5 node????
AMD is launching a Zen 4-based laptop APU, made on TSMC N4. We'll see how they measure up, but I could easily see how Meteor Lake comes out ahead.

The problem for Intel is that they're still bleeding in the server market, and that won't even begin to turn around until Granite Rapids (i.e. the one after Emerald Rapids). That should launch shortly before Zen 5 / Epyc, so it'll be quite a matchup.

Remember Zen 4 itself was dead on arrival against Raptor Lake
Only if you're comparing unlocked desktop processors. Like I said, once you start limiting power, it hurts Raptor Lake a lot more than it hurts Zen 4.
 

SiliconFly

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AMD is launching a Zen 4-based laptop APU, made on TSMC N4. We'll see how they measure up, but I could easily see how Meteor Lake comes out ahead.

The problem for Intel is that they're still bleeding in the server market, and that won't even begin to turn around until Granite Rapids (i.e. the one after Emerald Rapids). That should launch shortly before Zen 5 / Epyc, so it'll be quite a matchup.


Only if you're comparing unlocked desktop processors. Like I said, once you start limiting power, it hurts Raptor Lake a lot more than it hurts Zen 4.

Why would anybody want to limit power to their Raptor Lake processors considering they're ready to slot in 500W nvidia GPUs?!? Makes no sense!
 
Only if you're comparing unlocked desktop processors. Like I said, once you start limiting power, it hurts Raptor Lake a lot more than it hurts Zen 4.
Depends on who you ask...and how far down you go.
Computerbase has the 13900k at 45W running 9% faster than the 7950x at 45w.
(Maybe because the e-cores are pulling their weight at such low power? )
Then at 65W it has the 7950x leading, just like anand, by 7%
Either way not a huge difference and I think completely irrelevant for the laptop market, maybe for server if there are still servers that do 3d rendering on x86 farms but I just don't believe that anybody would do that kind of work on a laptop.
https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10...bschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp
 
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bit_user

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Depends on who you ask...and how far down you go.
Computerbase has the 13900k at 45W running 9% faster than the 7950x at 45w.
(Maybe because the e-cores are pulling their weight at such low power? )
Then at 65W it has the 7950x leading, just like anand, by 7%
...
https://www.computerbase.de/2022-10...bschnitt_leistung_in_apps_bei_reduzierter_tdp
Yeah, could be E-cores or just overhead of AMD's chiplets starting to bite them at 45W. The reason I blame the latter is that the 7700X, 7900X, and 7950X all perform within about 3% of each other, at 45W. That suggests overheads of the package & platform are gobbling up most of the power budget.

Once you step up to 65 W, that range suddenly balloons to 33%. And at 65W, the "Leistungsrating" or "performance rating" actually shows 7950X at 12% faster than i9-13900K. The website makes it very easy to see - you just put your mouse on the slower one and it shows you the 7950X is 112% as fast.

Anyway, once you go up to 88 W, the 7950X is 48% faster than the 7700X. At 142 W, the spread between the upper 3 Ryzens is all the way up to 67%. That shows 45 W is really too far outside the sweet spot of the 7950X, and even 65 W is a bit low for that CPU.

Why would anybody want to limit power to their Raptor Lake processors considering they're ready to slot in 500W nvidia GPUs?!? Makes no sense!
I can tell you why I plan to. Because using the 65 W-limited i9-13900 (non-K) is clipping its wings a bit too much, especially when you see how much performance you're giving up. However, I don't want my CPU fan screaming when I'm compiling a large software package, and I have no intention of using water cooling. So, I will set the custom power limits in BIOS, to tame the beast enough that I can live with it.

It's interesting that you imagine everyone buying a fast CPU would use it for gaming. I intend to use it for software development. I haven't really played a PC game in over 15 years.
 
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That shows 45 W is really too far outside the sweet spot of the 7950X, and even 65 W is a bit low for that CPU.
Yup, so not really laptop territory anymore.
And at 65W, the "Leistungsrating" or "performance rating" actually shows 7950X at 12% faster than i9-13900K. The website makes it very easy to see - you just put your mouse on the slower one and it shows you the 7950X is 112% as fast.
You talked about CB23 so I replied for CB only, leistungrating is the average of all apps.
 

jamok99

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Rubbish. Intel has been in this business for more than 4 decades and has always been the market leader. They messed up only in 2017 with the 14++ nonsense. They've messed up so bad for a total of 5 - 6 years under the great leadership of bean counters & paper pushers who didn't have any foresight cos they didn't understand didly squat about technology! Idiots. And naturally, everything got messed up.

But that's history now. All the old nodes are gone for good! Intel 4 is ramping up very nicely as we speak and it can give a solid kick to TSMC N3 in power, performance & density! And the first batch of 14th-gen products are coming out in 6 months from now.

And the far more important news is, Intel 20A is almost ready with their test chips already out. The first arrow lake tape-in will happen anytime now! To put it in perspective, Intel is already in the advanced stages of the 20A implementation cycle with a tape-out in second half of this year and their 15th-gen arrow lake products out in late next year! Whereas, TSMC's competing node N2 is still in the drawing board and is expected to be available to its premium-paying tier-1 customers like Apple only in 2026!!! Tier-2 companies like AMD will get access to TSMC N2 only in 2027 (due to pricing).

In short, Intel is releasing its 2nm products in 2024 & AMD will have it's first 2nm products only in 2027! A gap of 3 years!!!

And by 2025, Intel will again move to 1.8nm leaving it's competitors in the dust. 5 nodes in 5 years. That's exactly what Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger meant last year when he said unquestioned leadership in 2025 & the competitors will be in the rear view mirror for good!

Trust me, AMD & TSMC have been the underdogs for decades. And they shined only when Intel tripped and fell flat in the face in the last 5 years. Now that Intel is back on track and running at a deadly pace, AMD's future is in question. I think AMD is headed for a disaster. If they don't do something different sooner rather than later, there's no future for AMD.
Just about all of those statements about Intel's 'achievements' going forward that purportedly demonstrate why it will dominate TSMC and AMD are speculative. Just like CEO's Gelsinger's statements are filled with 'we will' and 'we plan', as opposed to 'we (actually) did.' He's an apologist, who makes constantly makes excuses for Intel's failure to meet goals on time , while promising future competence. He ought to wear a clown suit at earnings conferences. And he ought to stop talking trash about TSMC because so far, they're eating Intel's lunch at process node delivery.
If one wants a 'benchmark' of Intel's actual performance, look at the stock price: Has fallen from a high of ~$66 to a current price of ~$26. That's not opinon - it's the market voting on the lack of confidence it has in INTC. I have nothing against Intel - my last build was a 12700K because, before 13th gen was introduced, on sale for $300 it was a good gaming platform, if a bit power hungry. But Nvidia is eating their lunch with market share gains where they compete with Intel - Nvidia's revenues from computing and networking segments is now larger than their revenues from the graphics segment, and most of that revenue is at the cost of Intel (and AMD to be fair), as opposed to the 'pie' of those segments simply becoming larger. And Intel's counter-forays into areas like discrete GPUs are pretty much a joke, so far.
In the end, it's all about execution, and Intel has yet to prove it can promise and deliver, rather than just promise.
 
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bit_user

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Just about all of those statements about Intel's 'achievements' going forward that purportedly demonstrate why it will dominate TSMC and AMD are speculative.
Exactly.

Just like CEO's Gelsinger's statements are filled with 'we will' and 'we plan', as opposed to 'we (actually) did.' He's an apologist, who makes constantly makes excuses for Intel's failure to meet goals on time , while promising future competence. He ought to wear a clown suit at earnings conferences. And he ought to stop talking trash about TSMC because so far, they're eating Intel's lunch at process node delivery.
First, as the public face of Intel, it's his job to try an spin the negative things so they don't seem so bad, while getting investors, customers, and partners to buy into Intel's future plans. Apart from a handful of examples (e.g. NUCs), Intel doesn't sell end-user products. Even though you can buy a retail boxed CPU or GPU, it's worthless without a software and hardware ecosystem supporting it. If their partners lose faith in Intel, then supporting those products becomes a lower priority and that will have downstream impacts.

Second, when did he actually disparage TSMC? Specifically, since they've become a TSMC customer?

Nvidia is eating their lunch with market share gains where they compete with Intel - Nvidia's revenues from computing and networking segments is now larger than their revenues from the graphics segment, and most of that revenue is at the cost of Intel (and AMD to be fair),
Eh, not sure about that. Intel doesn't make much from datacenter networking, especially if you don't count their recent Barefoot Networks acquisition. They made a play for the space with OmniPath, but the market rejected it. Hence, the acquisition.

And other than that, there's not much overlap between Intel and Nvidia, in the datacenter. Not since Intel killed Xeon Phi. Their "Datacenter GPU Xe Max", or whatever gobbledygook name they now have for Ponte Vecchio, is nowhere to be found, outside of prior HPC deployments. It appears to be DoA with rumored end-product yields deep into the non-viable territory, hence the cancellation Rialto Bridge.

Going forward, Nvidia's Grace CPUs seem squarely targeted at edging Intel out of GPU nodes in datacenter and HPC markets. However, that's still a fraction of the datacenter CPU market, and Grace is probably still in its production ramp phase.

Intel's counter-forays into areas like discrete GPUs are pretty much a joke, so far.
What's interesting is that Intel seems to have fallen into the same trap as AMD, by trying to make a GPU that's (nearly) all things to (nearly) all people. They tried to tackle:
  1. Traditional raster performance
  2. Ray tracing
  3. GPU compute (fp32)
  4. Deep learning
  5. Video compression
The only thing they left out was HPC, which is reserved for their "Xe Max" line. And they actually did comparatively well on most of those points. Sadly, it came at the expense of #1, and that's the main thing it had to do well!

In fact, AMD was at least smart enough not to unduly compromise RDNA by focusing too hard on ray tracing or deep learning. The former is actually starting to become a liability, but I think it was a good call up to at least RDNA 2.

Had Intel not bitten off more than they could chew, perhaps Alchemist could've been a fair bit more successful. You can't deny that the timing of their launch couldn't have been much worse, although that's partially on them (was supposed to launch at least a year earlier).

Anyway, that's why I'm not as dismissive of their dGPU efforts as some.

In the end, it's all about execution, and Intel has yet to prove it can promise and deliver, rather than just promise.
True. And this is why I keep saying we have to wait and see whether Intel has really turned a corner, and not just seize on their impressive efforts to capitalize on their Intel 7 node as proof that they have.
 
First, as the public face of Intel, it's his job to try an spin the negative things so they don't seem so bad, while getting investors, customers, and partners to buy into Intel's future plans. Apart from a handful of examples (e.g. NUCs), Intel doesn't sell end-user products. Even though you can buy a retail boxed CPU or GPU, it's worthless without a software and hardware ecosystem supporting it. If their partners lose faith in Intel, then supporting those products becomes a lower priority and that will have downstream impacts.
What exactly are you talking about here?
Intel is one of the biggest software houses in the world and does all of the software supporting themselves.
So that leaves the hardware ecosystem, are you suggesting that anybody will stop supporting the hardware that has 80+ % of the market share?!
Because that would mean to leave the market completely.
 

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Intel is one of the biggest software houses in the world and does all of the software supporting themselves.
Microsoft controls their Windows OS. Microsoft could've de-prioritized support for Alder Lake's Thread Director, leading to lower performance at launch. That launch performance is key, because it's when most of the benchmarking happens that consumer and even reviewers will refer back to.

There's other software, besides. The software industry is massive, beyond Intel or anyone else's capabilities. And there still exists quite a lot of proprietary code that Intel couldn't touch, even if it had the resources to do so.

So that leaves the hardware ecosystem, are you suggesting that anybody will stop supporting the hardware that has 80+ % of the market share?!
The risk isn't that Intel is completely shut out, but that they could be demoted to the same or lower status as others. That could lead to support for their products could be de-prioritized relative to AMD, ARM, or others. That means fewer design wins, later product launches, and maybe worse implementations. Like I said, "downstream costs".

Anyway, it's a hypothetical. Don't get too worked up over it. Nobody is saying this could happen any time soon. I'm just trying to explain why Intel needs to maintain mindshare among its partners and customers. And roadmaps are one important tool they use to do that.
 

KyaraM

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Microsoft controls their Windows OS. Microsoft could've de-prioritized support for Alder Lake's Thread Director, leading to lower performance at launch. That launch performance is key, because it's when most of the benchmarking happens that consumer and even reviewers will refer back to.

There's other software, besides. The software industry is massive, beyond Intel or anyone else's capabilities. And there still exists quite a lot of proprietary code that Intel couldn't touch, even if it had the resources to do so.


The risk isn't that Intel is completely shut out, but that they could be demoted to the same or lower status as others. That could lead to support for their products could be de-prioritized relative to AMD, ARM, or others. That means fewer design wins, later product launches, and maybe worse implementations.

Like I said, "downstream costs".
Intel is the biggest CPU developer for Desktop PCs in the world. Do you really think Microsoft would ever be dumb enough to deprioritice them for a company that holds only, like, what? 20% of the desktop market? lol

That would land them in very hot water if all those new company PCs and laptops weren't working correctly anymore because they made such a nonsensical decision. And for what, exactly? Nothing.
 
Microsoft controls their Windows OS. Microsoft could've de-prioritized support for Alder Lake's Thread Director, leading to lower performance at launch. That launch performance is key, because it's when most of the benchmarking happens that consumer and even reviewers will refer back to.
Far as I heard intel worked together with MS for the scheduler to get it in there and if they didn't do that chances are what you say would have happened anyway.
There's other software, besides. The software industry is massive, beyond Intel or anyone else's capabilities. And there still exists quite a lot of proprietary code that Intel couldn't touch, even if it had the resources to do so.
And until intel marketshare drops to very low levels this other software has much more to lose than intel.
Unless there will be a orchestrated move with all software houses committing suicide by stopping to support the biggest share of hardware on the market.
In that case intel would lose a bunch but all the software houses would shut down.
I'm just trying to explain why Intel needs to maintain mindshare among its partners and customers. And roadmaps are one important tool they use to do that.
Only they don't really, they need to maintain marketshare because that's what makes the partners their money, selling to a big marketshare.
 
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Only they don't really, they need to maintain marketshare because that's what makes the partners their money, selling to a big marketshare.
Mindshare is important when execution falters.

Remember, the premise I was responding to was Gelsinger talking about the future, even when Intel falters (e.g. Sapphire Rapids, ARC Alchemist, or Ponte Vecchio delays). That's exactly what he should be doing.
 
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