Intel's Future Chips: News, Rumours & Reviews

[8350rocks]

A friend said to me: "From Zen launch till now AMD stock is down 2$. From Zen launch till now Intel stock is up 8$."

AMD is still up 15000% from pre-Ryzen launch 12 months year over year. Intel is still down 3% in the same time span.

 

[gamerk316]

A friend said to me: "From Zen launch till now AMD stock is down 2$. From Zen launch till now Intel stock is up 8$."

Normal and expected. Stock goes up prior to long-awaited release, stock goes back down post-release as investors cash in. As I said from even before Zen launched, back when the stock was at $15, that AMD probably should be around $10. I see the recent changes as a natural correction for AMD's stock.

Nothing to see here.

 

[Gon Freecss]

Are there any reviews comparing Skylake-SP to Zen?

 

[goldstone77]

Rivals Intel and AMD Team Up on PC Chips to Battle Nvidia
New laptop-computer chip will combine an Intel processor and an AMD graphics unit
By Ted Greenwald
Nov. 6, 2017 6:01 a.m. ET

 

[juanrga]

It is official. The new Intel-AMD hybrid

https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

It is an EMIB package (not MCM as I said in the past), and it uses HBM2. This is the chip with the CPU, the GPU, and the HBM2 stack

 

[manleysteele]

AMD and Intel have a long history with one another. The founders of both companies came from Fairchild around the same time. I'm not as surprised as I, perhaps, should be by this collaboration. This makes so much sense, in hindsight, that all I have to say on the subject is, "Bravo, Intel, AMD and anyone else who had a hand in this decision." I believe it is a big win for both companies going forward and a big win for consumers, as well.

 

[-Fran-]

It is official. The new Intel-AMD hybrid

https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

It is an EMIB package (not MCM as I said in the past), and it uses HBM2. This is the chip with the CPU, the GPU, and the HBM2 stack

That is a very nice rendering of what would be the final SoC. Also, I've been reading that EMIB has been used only for the HBM2+GPU combi, but not the CPU part. That is good ol' MCM technique, so the truth might be somewhere in between, as usual.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

It is official. The new Intel-AMD hybrid

https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

It is an EMIB package (not MCM as I said in the past), and it uses HBM2. This is the chip with the CPU, the GPU, and the HBM2 stack

That is a very nice rendering of what would be the final SoC. Also, I've been reading that EMIB has been used only for the HBM2+GPU combi, but not the CPU part. That is good ol' MCM technique, so the truth might be somewhere in between, as usual.

Yes, EMIB is only used between GPU and HBM2. That is why the CPU is separated.

There is no interposer.

 

[gamerk316]

It is official. The new Intel-AMD hybrid

https://newsroom.intel.com/editorials/new-intel-core-processor-combine-high-performance-cpu-discrete-graphics-sleek-thin-devices/

It is an EMIB package (not MCM as I said in the past), and it uses HBM2. This is the chip with the CPU, the GPU, and the HBM2 stack

That is a very nice rendering of what would be the final SoC. Also, I've been reading that EMIB has been used only for the HBM2+GPU combi, but not the CPU part. That is good ol' MCM technique, so the truth might be somewhere in between, as usual.

Yes, EMIB is only used between GPU and HBM2. That is why the CPU is separated.

There is no interposer.

Which makes sense? HBM2 is unsuitable as system level RAM, so it really doesn't make sense to connect it to the CPU.

I'm guessing we'll see something similar to the old Hybrid SLI Intel and NVIDIA had, where the Intel iGPU does most of the non-performance heavy work, and the AMD GPU only turns on for 3d applications.

 

[gamerk316]

Well this is interesting:

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Koduri as Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments.

Looks like Intel's decided it needs to compete directly against NVIDIA in the GPU game to stay competitive in the future. This is also going to lead to pressure against AMD.

*popcorn*

 

[-Fran-]

Well this is interesting:

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Koduri as Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments.

Looks like Intel's decided it needs to compete directly against NVIDIA in the GPU game to stay competitive in the future. This is also going to lead to pressure against AMD.

*popcorn*

Nah. I don't think Intel is interested in getting into GPUs. I think they're looking way past that and more into AI and Automation systems (cars, homes, IoT, etc).

Those are untapped markets and nVidia is still learning there. Intel has a bigger fighting chance in new markets, so I'm pretty sure they're giving Mr. Raja a full-house playground to get something going that might be able to compete there. After all, most of the current AMD GPUs are heavy compute first and from the hardware perspective, they are very capable pieces of hardware with the right optimizations in place. Intel has more than enough money to shower anyone to make such optimizations, so I'm pretty darn sure they'll start building the IP blocks in the right way now.

I'm just wondering, how much of the AI stuff is un-tapped. I know IBM and nVidia have had a good head start into that market, so Intel has to play catch up, but the technologies are still developing (and at a fast pace).

I absolutely agree on the "popcorn" comment though. Even if it's not competing in "GPU" directly, they will indeed be competing with nVidia and IBM directly now.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

HBM2 is unsuitable as system level RAM, so it really doesn't make sense to connect it to the CPU.

I'm guessing we'll see something similar to the old Hybrid SLI Intel and NVIDIA had, where the Intel iGPU does most of the non-performance heavy work, and the AMD GPU only turns on for 3d applications.

Right, HBM2 as main RAM is not suitable, but a full integration would connect CPU and GPU via EMIB as well. It is not made in this case because the GPU is from RTG (AMD). So CPU and GPU are linked using a less advanced interconnect.

It will be interesting to check what are the uses for the iGPU and the dGPU. compute vs graphics looks a obvious choice. Another is, as you say, low power vs high power, with the discrete GPU only activate under stress applications.

 

[juanrga]

Well this is interesting:

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Koduri as Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments.

Looks like Intel's decided it needs to compete directly against NVIDIA in the GPU game to stay competitive in the future. This is also going to lead to pressure against AMD.

*popcorn*

So not only Zen has almost zero impact in Intel finances, but now Intel fights back on AMD GPU business. Interesting times!

 

[juanrga]

https://twitter.com/Rajaontheedge/status/928427350743588864

It will be a massive understatement to say that I am beyond excited about my new role at Intel. I haven't yet seen anything written that groks the magnitude of what I am pursuing. The scale of it is not even remotely close to what I was doing before. Will say more when ready!

 

[gamerk316]

Well this is interesting:

https://newsroom.intel.com/news-releases/raja-koduri-joins-intel/

Intel today announced the appointment of Raja Koduri as Intel chief architect, senior vice president of the newly formed Core and Visual Computing Group, and general manager of a new initiative to drive edge computing solutions. In this position, Koduri will expand Intel’s leading position in integrated graphics for the PC market with high-end discrete graphics solutions for a broad range of computing segments.

Looks like Intel's decided it needs to compete directly against NVIDIA in the GPU game to stay competitive in the future. This is also going to lead to pressure against AMD.

*popcorn*

Nah. I don't think Intel is interested in getting into GPUs. I think they're looking way past that and more into AI and Automation systems (cars, homes, IoT, etc).

Those are untapped markets and nVidia is still learning there. Intel has a bigger fighting chance in new markets, so I'm pretty sure they're giving Mr. Raja a full-house playground to get something going that might be able to compete there. After all, most of the current AMD GPUs are heavy compute first and from the hardware perspective, they are very capable pieces of hardware with the right optimizations in place. Intel has more than enough money to shower anyone to make such optimizations, so I'm pretty darn sure they'll start building the IP blocks in the right way now.

I'm just wondering, how much of the AI stuff is un-tapped. I know IBM and nVidia have had a good head start into that market, so Intel has to play catch up, but the technologies are still developing (and at a fast pace).

I absolutely agree on the "popcorn" comment though. Even if it's not competing in "GPU" directly, they will indeed be competing with nVidia and IBM directly now.

Cheers!

The problem is that those types of fields Intel wants to get into benefit more from GPU-like devices. Intel's tried wring a bunch of serial CPUs together before; it hasn't gone exactly well for them. They need some form of massively parallel based processor if they want to remain relevant.

 

[-Fran-]

https://twitter.com/Rajaontheedge/status/928427350743588864

It will be a massive understatement to say that I am beyond excited about my new role at Intel. I haven't yet seen anything written that groks the magnitude of what I am pursuing. The scale of it is not even remotely close to what I was doing before. Will say more when ready!

But I thought you said Raja should not be praised at all? I can't remember the exact words, but I do remember you had a low opinion on him. Has that changed now that he is going to work at Intel, by any chance?

@gamerk:

Yeah, that is kind of how things are currently. They have had their hands tied from the IP perspective to fight nVidia and AMD in the GPU arena. I think their whole idea of having Raja is to start building the IP blocks they need to compete and "trade" with AMD and nVidia. If you ask me, Intel might buy Imagination Technologies or some other smaller GPU player.

Cheers!

 

[juanrga]

https://twitter.com/Rajaontheedge/status/928427350743588864

It will be a massive understatement to say that I am beyond excited about my new role at Intel. I haven't yet seen anything written that groks the magnitude of what I am pursuing. The scale of it is not even remotely close to what I was doing before. Will say more when ready!

But I thought you said Raja should not be praised at all? I can't remember the exact words, but I do remember you had a low opinion on him. Has that changed now that he is going to work at Intel, by any chance?

LOL

 

[goldstone77]

Nvidia CEO On Intel's GPU, AMD Partnership, And Raja Koduri
by Paul Alcorn November 9, 2017 at 6:25 PM

"Yeah, there's a lot of news out there....first of all, Raja leaving AMD is a great loss for AMD, and it's a recognition by Intel probably that the GPU is just incredibly important now. The modern GPU is not a graphics accelerator, we just left the letter "G" in there, but these processors are domain-specific parallel accelerators, and they are enormously complex, they are the most complex processors built by anybody on the planet today. And that's the reason why IBM uses our processors for the worlds largest supercomputers, [and] that's the reason why every single cloud, every major server around the world has adopted Nvidia GPUs."

"The amount of software engineering that goes on top of it is significant as well. So, if you look at the way that we do things, we plan our roadmap about five years out. It takes about three years to build a new generation, and we build multiple GPUs at the same time, and on top of that, there are some 5,000 engineers working on system software and numerics libraries, and solvers, and compilers, and graph analytics, and cloud platforms, and virtualization stacks in order to make this computing architecture useful to all of the people we serve.
So when you think about it from that perspective, it's just an enormous undertaking. Arguably the most significant undertaking of any processor in the world today. And that's why we are able to speed up applications by a factor of 100."

"And lastly, with respect to the chip that they built together, I think it goes without saying, now that the energy efficiency of Pascal GeForce and the MaxQ design technology and all of the software we have created has really set a new design point for the industry, it is now possible to build a state of the art gaming notebook with the most leading edge GeForce processors, and we want to deliver gaming experiences many times that of a console in 4K and have that be in a laptop that is 18mm thin. The combination of Pascal and MaxQ has really raised the bar, and that's really the essence of it."

"If you have four or five different architectures to support, that you offer to your customers, and they have to pick the one that works the best, you are essentially are saying that you don't know which one is the best [.....] If there's five architectures, surely over time, 80% of them will be wrong. I think that our advantage is that we are singularly focused."

WOW! Let the party get started!

 

[ivan.vlasenko]

In this test i3 6100 is better than i7 860
Do you think this is true or is the memory and the older video card changing the result?
https://youtu.be/9K5bfCz1XP4

 

[goldstone77]

In this test i3 6100 is better than i7 860
Do you think this is true or is the memory and the older video card changing the result?
https://youtu.be/9K5bfCz1XP4

You have multiple factors that are affect gaming performance.
https://ark.intel.com/products/41316/Intel-Core-i7-860-Processor-8M-Cache-2_80-GHz
https://ark.intel.com/products/90729/Intel-Core-i3-6100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_70-GHz

Many differences 45nm vs. 14nm(multiple generations of IPC improvement), Frequency, Bus speed, memory bandwidth. 860 is 1x16 PCI-E 2.0, and 6100 is 1x16 PCI-E 3.0. This difference between 2.0 and 3.0 only accounts for ~1FPS difference using a 1080Ti. The difference will be less with less powerful video card. Video card wouldn't make a difference as long as they used the same one.

 

[juanrga]

Intel kills Knight Hills Phi and will replace with a new microarchitecture for exascale

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/unleashing-high-performance-computing/

I wonder if it will be a GPU-CPU hybrid, under Koduri leadership, or something more radical

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/12/future-systems-intel-fellow-conjures-the-perfect-exascale-machine/

 

[goldstone77]

Intel kills Knight Hills Phi and will replace with a new microarchitecture for exascale

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/unleashing-high-performance-computing/

I wonder if it will be a GPU-CPU hybrid, under Koduri leadership, or something more radical

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/12/future-systems-intel-fellow-conjures-the-perfect-exascale-machine/

Intel kills Knight Hills Phi and will replace with a new microarchitecture for exascale

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/unleashing-high-performance-computing/

I like it! This brings us closer to the world I want to live in!

I wonder if it will be a GPU-CPU hybrid, under Koduri leadership, or something more radical

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/12/future-systems-intel-fellow-conjures-the-perfect-exascale-machine/

Interconnect Fabric? HAHAHA!

 

[juanrga]

Intel kills Knight Hills Phi and will replace with a new microarchitecture for exascale

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/unleashing-high-performance-computing/

I wonder if it will be a GPU-CPU hybrid, under Koduri leadership, or something more radical

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/12/future-systems-intel-fellow-conjures-the-perfect-exascale-machine/

Intel kills Knight Hills Phi and will replace with a new microarchitecture for exascale

https://itpeernetwork.intel.com/unleashing-high-performance-computing/

I like it! This brings us closer to the world I want to live in!

I wonder if it will be a GPU-CPU hybrid, under Koduri leadership, or something more radical

https://www.nextplatform.com/2015/08/12/future-systems-intel-fellow-conjures-the-perfect-exascale-machine/

Interconnect Fabric? HAHAHA!

Interconnect Fabrics have been known in the industry for years...

http://www.arteris.com/blog/bid/99797/The-SoC-Interconnect-Fabric-A-Brief-History

 

[goldstone77]

Intel Acknowledges ME Flaws, Announces Fixes
by Lucian Armasu November 21, 2017 at 7:35 AM - Source: Intel

Intel Announces Fix For The Flaw
Intel announced that it has completed a security review of its ME firmware as well as the Intel Server Platform Services (SPS) and Intel Trusted Execution Engine (TXE) with the goal of enhancing firmware resilience. The review was prompted by the latest work by “external researchers.”
Intel identified multiple security flaws in the ME firmware versions 11.0/11.5/11.6/11.7/11.10/11.20, as well as SPS Firmware version 4.0 and TXE version 3.0. As Purism told us recently, version 11 of ME is quite different from the one Intel used before, and it also runs on a separate x86 processor, as opposed to an Arc processor like before. Versions 11 and later are available to Intel 6th-gen processors (Skylake) and newer.
The full list of impacted CPUs includes:
6th, 7th & 8th Generation Intel Core Processor Family
Intel Xeon Processor E3-1200 v5 & v6 Product Family
Intel Xeon Processor Scalable Family
Intel Xeon Processor W Family
Intel Atom C3000 Processor Family
Apollo Lake Intel Atom Processor E3900 series
Apollo Lake Intel Pentium
Celeron N and J series Processors

 

[AngeNoir0324]

MERGED QUESTION
Question from AngeNoir0324 : "Discussion on Leaked Rumor of 9th gen Intel CPUs"

Gamermeld just release a video covering this topic in part, I’ll summarize it, but you should go watch his video.
i7 will be 8 core/ 16 thread behemoths
i5 will be 6 core, some with hyper threading
i3 will be 4 core cpus some with hyper threading

My main questions today are this:

-How do you guys think this reflects on how Coffee Lake was thrown together?

-How can AMD’s Ryzen chips compare, or will the expensive z370 and z390 mobos (the only way to use The full 8 cores of the 9700k) still make Ryzen a compelling option?

-What kind of preformance must Ryzen gen 2 have to stay relevant and powerful if there usb stock of 9th gen intel CPUs?


Thanks for this little discussion.