News Intel's Rocket Lake Blasts Off With Fewer Cores, Higher Pricing

[Giroro]

I was going to point out that Intel is in no position to raise prices, especially since nobody in their right mind would be unsold to an i9 that is nearly identical to the i7. Plus, Intel is not going to be anywhere near AMD in multi-threaded...
But then I remembered that they won't have any competition in the CPU market whatsoever until GPUs are readily available.
Desktop CPUs without integrated graphics are going to be effectively unusable by general users for a minimum of several months, and AMD is mostly only restocking their lower core parts right now - which eliminates the markets for people who want a high end CPU to go with the high-end GPU that they already own. Plus AMD's desktop APUs are going to be effectively extinct until they get them up to Zen 3.
If anything Intel is being very restrained with their price hike, the K series i7/i9 could cost $650/$750, and people would still buy it simply because its the only one that 8 core part can get you to a Windows desktop for the foreseeable future. Hopefully only for a month or so, but who knows.
On the other hand, the F parts need much lower pricing. In this market, those parts aren't even going to be worth the sand they're made out of.

 

[Giroro]

I don't see the "lift off"....looks like it blew up on the pad, to me...😉

"In how many ways,
And in how many days,
Can Intel sell the same old-hat?"

--Aristotle, on the day of Intel's 8th, 9th, and 10th generation CPU announcements.

It's like SpaceX. You can just relaunch the same thing over and over and over again.

It's almost ironic that their "Rocket" is the first one to finally try to be different... probably not better, but different.

 

[Giroro]

There should not be an I9 this generation.

I definately agree with that. Although, I also was never a fan of when they renamed i7 to i9 and raised prices in the first place.

 

[TerryLaze]

On the other hand, the F parts need much lower pricing. In this market, those parts aren't even going to be worth the sand they're made out of.

OEMs still need CPUs.
Also it depends on how far away intel's dGPU are, if they can release them soon it will be a win win for intel.

 

[Loadedaxe]

Intel priced this way due to AMDs greed and poor availability.

The i9, totally not worth it, the i7...meh. PC gaming is becoming a cancer, greed has taken over. and as long as people keep paying for this rubish and overpriced video cards, it will continue.

Keep your current PCs, dont buy into this nonsense. I wont even think about upgrading until at least 2024.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Intel priced this way due to AMDs greed and poor availability.

The i9, totally not worth it, the i7...meh. PC gaming is becoming a cancer, greed has taken over. and as long as people keep paying for this rubish and overpriced video cards, it will continue.

Keep your current PCs, dont buy into this nonsense. I wont even think about upgrading until at least 2024.

I’m hoping for more. I acquired all my parts in Nov/Dec at retail price... a lucky BB 3090 order and a 10900k because AMD wasn’t an option. No issues other than slow holiday shipping.

I got nearly 4 years out of the 7700k/1080 Ti build. I really think I’ll be good here till 2026.

Thank you sweet baby Jesus... and I agree. Greed has made this cancer what it is... I see 3090s are now on eBay for $3000. 🙄

 

[Deleted member 2783327]

...and utterly abandoned the high end of the desktop PC market.

16/20 PCIe lanes is a joke. I have 10 PCs and they are all 28, 44 or 48 PCIe lanes.

This is not good news 🙁

AMD here is up to 3 times the out of pocket cost than intel. (In AUD)

I used to upgrade all of the PCs over a 3 year cycle, now I guess I'm going to be stuck with aging systems.

Damn you Intel !

 

[ezst036]

Wow.

Intel is in huge trouble.

 

[jkflipflop98]

Wow.

Intel is in huge trouble.

LOL no. No they're not.

 

[watzupken]

That's a bizarre reason. Especially since Intel moved to a soldered TIM. Pretty much all of Intel's K SKU's hit 5Ghz or more all core, so what achievement 4.5GHz?

From my understanding, soldered TIM only applies to the higher end Intel processors. Also to hit 5Ghz, its drawing absurd amount of power and output a lot of heat.

 

[watzupken]

I guess Tom's Hardware was not able to buy an 11th gen from Mindfactory.de and is still bound by NDA until 3/30.

Anandtech and Hardware luxx were able to buy one and already came up with "temporary" benchmarks that look anyway like the final ones: a BIOS update will not bring a hail Mary double-digit optimization.

11th gen is from time to time faster than Zen 3 for INTEL selected games, but it is NOT for productivity benchmarks and other games. 11th gen can also be behind 10th gen. Disclosure: I don't care about gaming, I use my computers for work, Ryzen 9 and Threadrippers.

11th gen is a bad band-aid from a technological viewpoint but I’m sure INTEL will sell a lot of them. No need to worry for INTEL, with their momentum and financial power they can fool around for several years before finally coming up with a kiss-ass architecture. They have the advantage in terms of attrition war with AMD and ARM. People predicting the death of INTEL are living in Unicorn Land.

Last but not least, INTEL 11th gen is the new best of the best for a very long time: you get a winter heater for free

Meanwhile I’ll be waiting for Zen 3 Threadripper and then watch Zen 4 vs. Alder Lake for a possible hardware update early next year.

I agree 11th gen is a bad band aid fix, but one that they have to attempt since you can clearly tell that they have squeezed every single possible performance out of Skylake architecture with the Comet Lake series. The horse is dead, so no matter how hard they beat it, it won't budge anymore. Also when they made the decision to backport to 14nm (with status for 10nm still uncertain), it was done many years before, so since the R&D money is already sunk cost, they might as well release the product at least to have something to show in 2021.

As to death of Intel, I would say that won't happen because of their size and the fact that they still produce competitive products. Having said that AMD and ARM have successful in damaging Intel in 2 ways which may be permanent if they can keep up with the momentum,

1. Chipping away at Intel's market share
2. Created a positive impression of their products being a viable or better alternative.

Just maybe 5 years back, people shun AMD and have doubts about ARM's prospect in the future. Fast forward to the 2020/ 2021, that is no longer the case. So Intel will still rake in loads of money each quarter, but if they will need to work a lot harder to maintain it or risk losing it bit by bit each year. Which I think is a good thing because that will keep them on their toes and not give them consumers recycled products year after year with no meaningful improvement in performance.

 

[spongiemaster]

...and utterly abandoned the high end of the desktop PC market.

16/20 PCIe lanes is a joke. I have 10 PCs and they are all 28, 44 or 48 PCIe lanes.

As a long time Intel HEDT users, I find that I need fewer and fewer lanes with each generation and with Intel's abandonment of HEDT, I'll likely move to a mainstream platform next as the lower PCIE count doesn't matter now. I used to run multiple video cards, a multi gig nic, and a sound card in my main system. It's been years since I've used dual video cards as support has continued to wane over the years and is completely dead now. My current X299 board has an onboard 10gig nic, so I no longer need the add in card. All I have is a single 3090 and a sound card in my main system. I have an older X99 system I use for an Unraid box which has a 16 port HBA in it, but I would never use something like that in my main system. So what are you using in your 10 systems that need 30+ pcie lanes?

 

[spongiemaster]

Just maybe 5 years back, people shun AMD and have doubts about ARM's prospect in the future. Fast forward to the 2020/ 2021, that is no longer the case. So Intel will still rake in loads of money each quarter, but if they will need to work a lot harder to maintain it or risk losing it bit by bit each year. Which I think is a good thing because that will keep them on their toes and not give them consumers recycled products year after year with no meaningful improvement in performance.

5 years ago people also thought the PC desktop was dead and mobile would replace it. This last year has emphatically shown, that isn't the case. Intel doesn't have anything to worry about if 7nm is really back on schedule as they claim.

 

[spongiemaster]

From my understanding, soldered TIM only applies to the higher end Intel processors. Also to hit 5Ghz, its drawing absurd amount of power and output a lot of heat.

That was the case with the 9th gen. I don't know how it is with the 10th gen. Though I don't see the user of an i3-10320 caring what TIM Intel is using. Your last statement is false. Intel has CPU's besides the 10900K that can hit 5Ghz all core.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Also to hit 5Ghz, its drawing absurd amount of power and output a lot of heat.

Which I don't care about.

At all.

A quality PSU and quality cooler makes both of these "issues" a moot point.

Availability is what I did care about it. I wanted to give AMD my money... but couldn't. It is what it is.

That was the case with the 9th gen. I don't know how it is with the 10th gen. Though I don't see the user of an i3-10320 caring what TIM Intel is using. Your last statement is false. Intel has CPU's besides the 10900K that can hit 5Ghz all core.

This 10th gen user doesn't care either. When it came time to buy my CPU and AMD wasn't available believe me when I say I definitely wasn't shaking my head saying "Oh no, I better wait on AMD, the 10900k puts out too much heat."

5.2ghz all core since Jan 8th. No issues to report. The Z73 360mm AIO does the job.

 

[VforV]

5 years ago people also thought the PC desktop was dead and mobile would replace it. This last year has emphatically shown, that isn't the case. Intel doesn't have anything to worry about if 7nm is really back on schedule as they claim.

Sure they do. Maybe not from Zen3+ which will come this year Q3-Q4, but for sure they need to worry about Zen4 in 2022 which will be another major jump forward and new tech.
It would be stupid from them not to worry at this point after getting their behind handed to them the last years...

Just because they might have a good comeback with Alder Lake, underline might, does not mean they already came back, won and now they can go on vacation again...

 

[TerryLaze]

Sure they do. Maybe not from Zen3+ which will come this year Q3-Q4, but for sure they need to worry about Zen4 in 2022 which will be another major jump forward and new tech.
It would be stupid from them not to worry at this point after getting their behind handed to them the last years...

Just because they might have a good comeback with Alder Lake, underline might, does not mean they already came back, won and now they can go on vacation again...

Why are you talking as if technology or performance have anything to do with the matter?!
How many CPUs is AMD going to be able to make for ZEN4? Are they going to stop making GPUs all together? AMD could make the god like CPU and intel would still have nothing to fear because AMD depends on TSMC to make waffers for them and those numbers are way too small to affect intel.

Also the bottom line is that people need to buy the CPUs and AMD makes server CPUs that are better in server workloads but "nobody" wants server performance, nothing a normal person does depends on performance from many low clocked cores.

 

[iPeekYou]

Wow....so AMD's hiked up their prices and Intel is now doing the same? At least when Bulldozer and Piledriver came out we admitted those chips are poor value for gaming performance. Intel's pride of gaming performance is at stake here, given modern games benefitting more and more cores than ever. Not to mention the emerging mobile/ARM trend that invariably leans on multi-core designs.
At least for mid-range chips they are priced just under Ryzen 5xxx, but then again, so were the BD/PD chips. Intel even admitted that heavy-thread loads will take a hit, and they cut the cores on the top-end chips? Which most people would use it for their heavy-threaded capabilities?
Far be it from me to judge Intel, since I loved their products in the early Core ix days, but heck. If AMD managed to cut their prices on Zen 3 refresh, Intel needs something better than this.

 

[ginthegit]

Price creep = sad

AMD hiked prices on Ryzen 5000 because they were proud that they finally beat Intel
Intel clearly doesn't perceive that AMD has overtaken them.
Intel SHOULD have more leeway to lower pricing given their 100th year on 14nm.

At this point, I'm not interested in having to cool a CPU that draws 250W or more, even if it offers 5% better performance than the 5800X at 120W.

Agreed, Price rise of AMD due to Intel being crap at their 10nm production is terrible.
Samsung however have a similar design structure to Intel on its 5nm and they somehow solved it. Not looking good for Intel.

This 5% raise on IPC over AMD is also suspect, and I imagine that it can only have this gain is boost mode which is pitiful.

 

[ginthegit]

I guess Tom's Hardware was not able to buy an 11th gen from Mindfactory.de and is still bound by NDA until 3/30.

Anandtech and Hardware luxx were able to buy one and already came up with "temporary" benchmarks that look anyway like the final ones: a BIOS update will not bring a hail Mary double-digit optimization.

11th gen is from time to time faster than Zen 3 for INTEL selected games, but it is NOT for productivity benchmarks and other games. 11th gen can also be behind 10th gen. Disclosure: I don't care about gaming, I use my computers for work, Ryzen 9 and Threadrippers.

11th gen is a bad band-aid from a technological viewpoint but I’m sure INTEL will sell a lot of them. No need to worry for INTEL, with their momentum and financial power they can fool around for several years before finally coming up with a kiss-ass architecture. They have the advantage in terms of attrition war with AMD and ARM. People predicting the death of INTEL are living in Unicorn Land.

Last but not least, INTEL 11th gen is the new best of the best for a very long time: you get a winter heater for free

Meanwhile I’ll be waiting for Zen 3 Threadripper and then watch Zen 4 vs. Alder Lake for a possible hardware update early next year.

I agree to a point. Many people by laptops and work stations to a price point or recognised brands. But if Intel keeps this smokes and mirrors crap up (especially with its Lithography still in the 14nm) then it will eventually hit trouble in the Lappy land because of Power consumption.

For us Enthusiasts, Intels 14nm and 10nm farce is all the embarrassment we need to see to show that with all Intel's horses and men, they are struggling to do what AMD are doing.

They may have something up their sleeves, but they best pull it out soon. If AMD keeps producing better and better architectures with Massive IPC boost Gen on Gen, Intel's reputation will start to fall and they will concede a good deal of the 80% margin they enjoy.

With Samsung on the 3nm node and TSMC on the 5nm, Intel will concede ground and reputation to the AMD resurgence.

The future is unknown, but this gen is the biggest embarrassment to intel in its history.

 

[everettfsargent]

Short list:
(01) Faster DDR4 default (but watch out for Gear 1 and/or Gear 2)
(02) 19% IPC improvement
(03) New CPU price points
(04) Eight core maximum
(05) New microarchitecture
(06) 7th generation at the 14nm node
(07) PCIe 4.0 interface
(08) AVX-512 included (AVX-512 offset and/or disable AVX support and/or SSE/AVX/AVX2 offsets)
(09) DL Boost technology
(10) Integrated UHD graphics 750 engine
(11) Resizable Bar
(12) Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB)
(13) All-core boost turbo
(14) Turbo Boost 2 (TB2)
(15) Turbo Boost 3 (TB3)
(16) 125W/150W/250W PL1 power ratings, no PL2 limit and no Tau limit
(17) VNNi technology
(18) Memory overclocking
(19) Overclock the graphics engine
(20) PCIe 3.0 on the DMI and chipset

Nope, not too many parameters to play with there.

I am currently guessing that the i9-11900K at full 5.3GHz all core OC (if even possible) will pull close to 400W in AVX2 type benchmarks (with no AVX type offsets applied), similarly the i7-11700K at full 5.1GHz all core OC (if even possible) will pull close to 300W in AVX2 type benchmarks (with no AVX type offsets applied) ...

https://imgur.com/4QvuhpH

View: https://i.imgur.com/4QvuhpH.png
Notes: Power guesstimates apply to the total CPU package only (e. g. not total system power consumption at the wall). More than adequate cooling solutions to keep maximum temperatures at or below 100C (e. g. Tjunction) for either 300W/400W CPU power draws during AVX2 operations.

 

[VforV]

Why are you talking as if technology or performance have anything to do with the matter?!
How many CPUs is AMD going to be able to make for ZEN4? Are they going to stop making GPUs all together? AMD could make the god like CPU and intel would still have nothing to fear because AMD depends on TSMC to make waffers for them and those numbers are way too small to affect intel.

Also the bottom line is that people need to buy the CPUs and AMD makes server CPUs that are better in server workloads but "nobody" wants server performance, nothing a normal person does depends on performance from many low clocked cores.

Are you for real?
What is this site/forum about? Best company at sales? You must be a shareholder if that is your most important parameter, sales...

Of course tech is the important part. I'm here for new tech, for great tech, not just MEH/mediocre tech. Am I the only one that cares here about the tech? WTF?
We got mediocre intel CPU iterations for years. You're basically acting like a brainwashed simp saying you will by anything intel makes, no matter how good it is... so intel has nothing to worry.

Do you think intel would like to keep losing the server, pro-sumers and gamers segments as long as they still have good sales? Do you think that would be good for them long term? How about loosing mindshare at the same time?

Why did they change their CEO if they are not worried then, hm? The last one was good enough for you apparently, because he sold lots of intel stuff... Man, people these days... 🙄

 

[spongiemaster]

I agree to a point. Many people by laptops and work stations to a price point or recognised brands. But if Intel keeps this smokes and mirrors crap up (especially with its Lithography still in the 14nm) then it will eventually hit trouble in the Lappy land because of Power consumption.

For us Enthusiasts, Intels 14nm and 10nm farce is all the embarrassment we need to see to show that with all Intel's horses and men, they are struggling to do what AMD are doing.

Intel mainstream laptops have been on 10nm a couple years. With Tiger Lake-H release imminent, the entire lineup will be on 10nm and comparable to AMD's lineup.

 

[TerryLaze]

Do you think intel would like to keep losing the server, pro-sumers and gamers segments as long as they still have good sales? Do you think that would be good for them long term? How about loosing mindshare at the same time?

For someone that claims to be a tech fan you sure have no idea what's going on, these CPUs aren't targeted at server or pro-sumers and gamers buy mid range CPUs at best and pair them with the highest GPU they can get away with or afford.
Intel isn't loosing any market, mind or any other type of share by releasing the 11th gen because they have other products for those other markets and for the desktop market the 11th gen is just as good as anything else and better.

The only pool of customers intel is loosing is cheap skate semi/pros that try to build a workstation with desktop components and that's because intel isn't targeting that group of people.

 

[MasterMadBones]

How many CPUs is AMD going to be able to make for ZEN4? Are they going to stop making GPUs all together? AMD could make the god like CPU and intel would still have nothing to fear because AMD depends on TSMC to make waffers for them and those numbers are way too small to affect intel.

What is killing AMD here is that they made the safe bet in early 2020 to allocate the majority of their wafers to console APUs. They could not have anticipated the huge increase in demand as a result of the human malware situation. Consoles always sell out for months after release, so even though they are low-margin products, they are a safe investment. For example, TSMC can produce 4 Vermeer CCDs for every Xbox SoC, so the difference in potential capacity is huge.

On top of that, Intel has had shortages for a long time and increased 14nm capacity significantly over the last 3 years. At the same time, more and more of Intel's sales are being shifted over to 10nm. This has probably led to a surplus in 14nm capacity as they are still in the process of transitioning their 14nm equipment to 10nm.