Is the Human Brain the Fastest Cpu

[heartview]

No, the hardware is most important for without it changing it simply is not going to occure. True we have taken a long time but in that theory nothing help use along. I agree its not going to occcure in out lifetime and nothing a CPU can do now can even compare to the human brains processing capacity.

This is an argument of semantics. The "hardware" of the human brain can be "rewired" by the "software". The line between hardware and software in the brain is a very flexible one.

 

[pkellmey]

The human brain works at approximately 5 watts and holds between 2.5 and 5 terrabytes (depending on who you ask) of memory. Considering that there are some minds out there that can do incredible memory calculations while working a rubix cube and chewing gum at that wattage, I think it will be a long while before a CPU can reach that level of efficiency.

 

[elbert]

No, the hardware is most important for without it changing it simply is not going to occure. True we have taken a long time but in that theory nothing help use along. I agree its not going to occcure in out lifetime and nothing a CPU can do now can even compare to the human brains processing capacity.

This is an argument of semantics. The "hardware" of the human brain can be "rewired" by the "software". The line between hardware and software in the brain is a very flexible one.
Semantics its not as the CPU is neither sophisticated nor powerful enough to do the job. The CPU wil evolve with more powerful extensions allowing the CPU to do tasks which otherwise it couldnt. Using light to replace electrice for both speed and to elimate restraints is needed. The CPU must be powerful and sophisticated enough to allow for as someone put it Human OS version 1,000,000,000,000,000 (or higher) IE software to think the hardware has changed.

This is getting off topic of which is currently faster but does deal with the bloat of code needed for the comparison to atleast be equal.

 

[PC_Side_Line]

U have to look at this question on the outside, seeing the amount and type of info that the brain processes.

Then u look at CPU's they dont process 1/10 as much.

Our brains control our body functions. Has their ever been a cpu that could emulate control of every body function.

For example, colon control, bladder, fingers, eyes, how we walk and avoid obstacles like potholes, how we step over sidewalks.

I could not finish the list of what our Brain controls. The power of the Brain is not as FINITE as the world's fastest CPU.

If someone could come up with a program that takes in all the info that our brain does and then controls that info, then u could say that a cpu could come close.

There is no comparison. Years ago, most people in the know, thought they would be seeing 10 Ghz cpu's, but thats not the case, most top of the line cpu's today are 2 Ghz to 4 Ghz.

Even Intels' new 80 core cpu which unfort does only Floating point and no graphics hovers around 4 Ghz, with possibilities for 6 Ghz.

Speed is really not an issue. To make a true comparison its the quantity and type that has to be measured.

WE haven't even discussed the info our brains take in while we drive out on the streets or highways!

 

[heartview]

EDIT: I killed the quote... bah. 😛

I guess my point was that the current generation of hardware and software are NOT capable of dealing with the adaptation the human brain deals with every moment. Once the hardware starts acting more like software the CPU may have a chance.

As for time frames? I don't think you're taking history into consideration. Consider the RATE at which technology has advanced in the last 200 years. It is FAR FAR FAR faster than at any 200 year period previous in history. In fact, you could say that we have advanced at a faster rate over the last 100 years than the previous 2000 combined.

If the current rate keeps expanding like it has then we will be able to match or exceed the complexity of the human brain far faster than you may be willing to accept.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Again, this is a moot subject.

A lot of progress was made in the 90's with regards to neural networks. A few companies, which included Intel, released complete chips with completely dynamic neural networks. (Intel NX-series chips).

In the late 90's, most of this technology 'dissapeared.'

To the point, the benchmarks run with these chips were phenominal, since they are parallel by nature (and modern CPUs are serial).

If you're asking what is faster: a neuron or a transistor array, the answer is a transistor array. If you're asking what's faster, the Human Brain or a CPU, then you're asking the wrong question.

 

[pshrk]

I think we are confusing the software and hardware again. Human OS version 1,000,000,000,000,000 (or higher) has taken a long time (millions of years) to evolve. The amount of time we have spent evolving computers to walk around a house or find their way is tiny, give us time we will create machines capible of doing everything we do (and possibly regret it) not necessarily in our lifetimes but it will happen.

if your gullible enough to believe that....

 

[elbert]

EDIT: I killed the quote... bah. 😛

I guess my point was that the current generation of hardware and software are NOT capable of dealing with the adaptation the human brain deals with every moment. Once the hardware starts acting more like software the CPU may have a chance.

As for time frames? I don't think you're taking history into consideration. Consider the RATE at which technology has advanced in the last 200 years. It is FAR FAR FAR faster than at any 200 year period previous in history. In fact, you could say that we have advanced at a faster rate over the last 100 years than the previous 2000 combined.

If the current rate keeps expanding like it has then we will be able to match or exceed the complexity of the human brain far faster than you may be willing to accept.

That I can agree with but the hardware will have to be fast enough to make up for some flexablity.

Im taking into account history with moores law as to this its about only thing useable. The task of making a CPU as fast as the human brain is larger than many seem to realize. Many have equated the amount of information the human brain holds to harddrive storage however the information the human brain holds is more like cache and RAM. Our harddrives are more like file cabinates, pictures, things we write down, and librarys.

I can accept maybe 2050 but unless im real lucky want be in my life time. The latest figures has the fastest super computer at 1/100 to 1/200 that of the human brain. Those estimates dont always move in the favor of the CPU because we learn new things about the brain and how it works.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Many have equated the amount of information the human brain holds to harddrive storage however the information the human brain holds is more like cache and RAM. Our harddrives are more like file cabinates, pictures, things we write down, and librarys.

Human memory works NOTHING like cache or RAM.

The latest figures has the fastest super computer at 1/100 to 1/200 that of the human brain. Those estimates dont always move in the favor of the CPU because we learn new things about the brain and how it works.

Where are these figures, exactly? Or did you just make that up? (Rhetorical question...)

 

[bullaRh]

Touchtyping pff! it doesnt take anything and playing a fps game with ur mouse and keyboard doesnt either its just the feeling sens.
im talking about writing different things with both of ur hands at the same time on a piece of paper, try it. 😛

if u can do that ur one skilled rainman 😀

 

[heartview]

One thing that comes to mind is that we are on the cusp of the "massively parallel" era of computing (on the desktop, at least), which lends itself well to brain-like activity. With Intel's new 80-core chip, for example, a lot of things become possible that weren't before. Now if you were to put 1000 of those things together into a truly super computer... Now put 1000 of those computers together and see what happens.

Point is, that I think Moore's Law is about to be broken by comparably obscene jumps in processing power like we have never seen before. But, we still have the hurdle of ineffective software to run on these "super brains".

 

[CaptRobertApril]

Touchtyping pff! it doesnt take anything and playing a fps game with ur mouse and keyboard doesnt either its just the feeling sens.
im talking about writing different things with both of ur hands at the same time on a piece of paper, try it. 😛

if u can do that ur one skilled rainman 😀

What are you talking about? Every single time I write I have no conscious control. I can do it with both hands at the same time and still make absolutely no sense! 😀

 

[PC_Side_Line]

a quote from an old computer user back in the 70's:

A computer is a dumb machine, it's limited to human interaction with it.
------------

Can a computer theorize about how to solve bacterial problems? No it has to be programmed to do so.

A computer can't theorize about anything unless programmed to do so first.

So which is faster? a computer that gets asked a question, is the sky blue or not? or an adult human even an elementary school kid knows if the the sky is blue or not.

Certainly a human can answer a sky blue question much faster than a stupid computer!

So which is faster?

I dare you to go walk up to any super computer right now in the world, and ask it, is the sky blue? I will guarantee u, you will get no response!

but if u ask a human that question, u get an immediate response!

Why is that? it's because our brain has been programmed to respond to audio and visual stimulii. Do u think the worlds fastest super computer can react like a human brain can?

Which is faster? human brain or cpu?

 

[heartview]

a quote from an old computer user back in the 70's:

A computer is a dumb machine, it's limited to human interaction with it.
------------

Can a computer theorize about how to solve bacterial problems? No it has to be programmed to do so.

A computer can't theorize about anything unless programmed to do so first.

So which is faster? a computer that gets asked a question, is the sky blue or not? or an adult human even an elementary school kid knows if the the sky is blue or not.

Certainly a human can answer a sky blue question much faster than a stupid computer!

So which is faster?

I dare you to go walk up to any super computer right now in the world, and ask it, is the sky blue? I will guarantee u, you will get no response!

but if u ask a human that question, u get an immediate response!

Why is that? it's because our brain has been programmed to respond to audio and visual stimulii. Do u think the worlds fastest super computer can react like a human brain can?

Which is faster? human brain or cpu?

A human baby can do none of those things, they have to learn (be programmed) to do them. 😉

 

[PC_Side_Line]

There's no doubt that Mr. Kurzweil made some very nice contributions to the blind and deaf in the past.

How about if Mr. Kurzweil starts work on making programs that sort out the 6 billion items in the human genome map?

That's what the scientific community really needs right now.

Yes, we've mapped out DNA but what we need now are programs to tell us which combinations of genes causes what diseases.

This will take lab testing and large computer programs.

We shoudn't care about computer statistics anymore. What we need are ways to use today's processing power to extend our lives.

Take a look at the work that Bonnie Bassler has done at Princeton University. She has proved that bacteria can talk to each other.
Ultimately, she is trying to find out if she can stop that chattering in a way that is not toxic to humans.

If she can find that solution, it could lead to better disease control.

http://www.hhmi.org/news/bassler.html

Ms Bassler could be the answer to every pharmaceutical company owners dream. But her theories and proofs at this time are not fighting the root cause.

What we need are answers as to what causes diseases in the 1st place.
Those answers will stop millions from being infected or mutated in the first place.

There are answers in place on a broad sense but not in biochemical terms.

There's a great need to know the full explanation and true mechanisms of how diseases work as they do, from start to end.

Can a computer be used help solve these problems?

 

[p05esto]

Good grief. Geeks comparing thier loved computers to a living thing like the brain! The very fact this "thought" process is even being discussed makes the computer look like a tinkertoy....too much Matrix watching for the all of ya. Anyone ever hear of a little thing called freewill? How free is your CPU to do what "it" wants? Oh, that's right...a computer in no way whatsoever can think.

 

[heartview]

Good grief. Geeks comparing thier loved computers to a living thing like the brain! The very fact this "thought" process is even being discussed makes the computer look like a tinkertoy....too much Matrix watching for the all of ya. Anyone ever hear of a little thing called freewill? How free is your CPU to do what "it" wants? Oh, that's right...a computer in no way whatsoever can think.

That's funny, because 100 years ago computers couldn't do *ANYTHING* because they didn't even exist. Methinks you are a little shortsighted and naive.

You are confusing what you WANT (or don't want) to happen with what can (and probably will) happen. Reality is what it is and just because you may not want a computer to ever rival the human brain doesn't mean it can't or won't.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Saying a computer can think is like saying a submarine can swim

(One of my favorite quotes. By whom, I don't know)

 

[heartview]

Saying a computer can think is like saying a submarine can swim

(One of my favorite quotes. By whom, I don't know)

Think of all the things in the past 200 years that people said were "impossible" that are now commonplace. Just think on that for a moment.

Impossible is only a measurement used by the uninformed.

 

[elbert]

Many have equated the amount of information the human brain holds to harddrive storage however the information the human brain holds is more like cache and RAM. Our harddrives are more like file cabinates, pictures, things we write down, and librarys.

Human memory works NOTHING like cache or RAM.

The latest figures has the fastest super computer at 1/100 to 1/200 that of the human brain. Those estimates dont always move in the favor of the CPU because we learn new things about the brain and how it works.

Where are these figures, exactly? Or did you just make that up? (Rhetorical question...)
Memory is stored and retreived at the same speed it is processed so your a little correct as its not like RAM but just cache. RAM and cache is volital is it not? Stroke victoms have to relearn just like a child so most data stored in the brain must be volital. If you dont like 1/100 you do the math using moores law. Thats ever 18 months tech doubles and the closest estimate is 2020 or atleast 13 years.

 

[elbert]

Take a look at the work that Bonnie Bassler has done at Princeton University. She has proved that bacteria can talk to each other.

To stay on topic did you know the CPU did not pass the processing power of bacteria until the mid to late 60's.

 

[Blacken]

Take a look at the work that Bonnie Bassler has done at Princeton University. She has proved that bacteria can talk to each other.

To stay on topic did you know the CPU did not pass the processing power of bacteria until the mid to late 60's.

Heh heh. Bacteria can run pong.

Is the Human Brain the Fastest Cpu

As easy as the 'chicken or the egg' complex.
Cheers to the good comparison article a few pages back.

 

[Whizzard9992]

Many have equated the amount of information the human brain holds to harddrive storage however the information the human brain holds is more like cache and RAM. Our harddrives are more like file cabinates, pictures, things we write down, and librarys.

Human memory works NOTHING like cache or RAM.

The latest figures has the fastest super computer at 1/100 to 1/200 that of the human brain. Those estimates dont always move in the favor of the CPU because we learn new things about the brain and how it works.

Where are these figures, exactly? Or did you just make that up? (Rhetorical question...)
Memory is stored and retreived at the same speed it is processed so your a little correct as its not like RAM but just cache. RAM and cache is volital is it not? Stroke victoms have to relearn just like a child so most data stored in the brain must be volital. If you dont like 1/100 you do the math using moores law. Thats ever 18 months tech doubles and the closest estimate is 2020 or atleast 13 years.

Human memory is a network of abstract patterns, stored and retrieved through electro-chemical reactions between synapsis. Cache and RAM are finite data stores that are stored and retrieved through electro-magnetic reactions.

RAM/Cache storage happens through constant refreshing of diminishing magnetic fields, and the brain stores things electrically (short-term memory), chemically (medium-term), and physically (long-term) by reorganizing neurons in the brain.


I'm just saying you can't compare the brain's memory to RAM, the same way you can't compare the brain's computing power to a CPU.

The lack of AI isn't a result of lack of computing power, more lack of understanding of self-awareness and comprehension.

 

[Guest]

The latest figures has the fastest super computer at 1/100 to 1/200 that of the human brain. Those estimates dont always move in the favor of the CPU because we learn new things about the brain and how it works.

I beg to differ. Ask a human what 5^879 is that human wouldn't be able to come up with an answer for a very long time. Ask Microsoft Calculator and it will give you an instant answer.

 

[Guest]

Well that being said, Whizzard9992 is right we are asking oursevles a stupid question. A computer is a tool we are people that use this tool. Comparing a tool to the owner of the tool is a stupid idea. It is like comparing a hammer to a carpenters hand.