GeneticWeapon
Splendid
- Jan 13, 2003
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I cant believe that most of the posters in this thread dont even know who Carmack is....it's freakin' pathetic.
....then to throw up a picture of the guy and complain that he looks like a nerd :roll:
It's time to clean house.
....then to throw up a picture of the guy and complain that he looks like a nerd :roll:
It's time to clean house.
I do agree with him that Microsoft is trying to sell Vista by tying it to DX10, but that's the way of it, I guess. I also agree that Vista isn't all that big of a deal - I still turn off the fruity XP GUI and run XP as if it were Win2K (which it pretty much is) and it would've been nice if they'd thrown more effort into XP64. Vista seems a multimedia\home use OS for the people who miss WinME from the admittedly little research I've done into it - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ( I've been living in the bush alot lately, have 2 sex-and-baby crazed girlfriends and an obsessed ex....god, I shoulda got neutered.)
I do agree with you that Doom 3 was the equivelant of a cheesy amusement park house of horrors thing - enter a room, your apparently one armed marine who couldn't hold a flashlight and a gun at the same time (and also couldn't figure out how to tape said flashlight to his gun) gets attacked by something scary, go to the only door and repeat, but man, American Mcghee never did anything good, IMO. At least Carmack did something cool once in his life, instead of just having hippy parents who weren't "experienced" enough to name him something like Moonlight Coyote McGhee or just simply Two Dogs F**king (my favorite impersonation of a native name of all time).
Apologies for the rant, folks, it's been awhile since I've had some beer...lol.
I do agree with you that Doom 3 was the equivelant of a cheesy amusement park house of horrors thing - enter a room, your apparently one armed marine who couldn't hold a flashlight and a gun at the same time (and also couldn't figure out how to tape said flashlight to his gun) gets attacked by something scary, go to the only door and repeat, but man, American Mcghee never did anything good, IMO. At least Carmack did something cool once in his life, instead of just having hippy parents who weren't "experienced" enough to name him something like Moonlight Coyote McGhee or just simply Two Dogs F**king (my favorite impersonation of a native name of all time).
Apologies for the rant, folks, it's been awhile since I've had some beer...lol.
turpit
Splendid
- Feb 12, 2006
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Ok buddy... most of your peers disagree and Doom3 still sucks.
On DX10:
I guess he hasn't seen the Crysis trailers. 75% of all games in development are DX10 titles. The only shite game that isn't is his Quake Wars.
This guy is officially irrelevant IMO.
O cmon now, With Crysis delayed until end of march/april, waiting on a DX10 card isnt such bad advice. The initial oferings are bound to be cheaper by then.
Besides, ole Johnny's been concentrating on the real important stuff.....cell phone games :roll:
Carmack could give nerd lessons. I mean, look at his hair do. WTF? Does he get laid? I can't see how. He's worse than Bill Gates.
That whole eurotrash flowing hairdo style died in the 80's.
With his money, he could afford to get himself double D breast implants and have Tammy Faye Baker make up permanently tatooed on his face, and he could still take home a different super model every night (if his wife would let him, and with his money, if he got a pre-nup, she prolly would)-----sucks to be one of us "poor" folks :lol:
Valtiel
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- Feb 28, 2005
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Hey, buddy, I liked Doom 3. :twisted: To be fair he figured it out in ressurection of evil (or was that a different guy?) If it wasn't though that's one hell of a learning curve. I did like doom's atmosphere though... But I have to say F.E.A.R's is scarier
and as for John Carmack, I still think he looks like a nerd (he has a tan line on his forehead...)
chuckshissle
Splendid
- Feb 2, 2006
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That guy is just doing it for publicity, ignore him. He's trying to be the next Bill Gates, only he looks more idiotic.
Pippero
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- May 26, 2006
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8O
You can call him a wanker, when you'll have earned your first 10 million $ and drive a Ferrari.
Concerning his looks.. dude, do you have a mirror? :lol: :lol:
About the multicore stuff... i agree with him, Gigaherz are much better than multicore from a programmer's point of view, much easier to program, and much better computing power utilization (i.e., if 2 CPUs have the same IPC, but one is 6 GHz single core, the other 3 GHz dual core, the 6 GHz single core will be faster).
And concerning DX10, who cares?
As long as he can give us eye candy with DX9... and Doom 3 was arguably the first "photorealistic" looking game.
You can call him a wanker, when you'll have earned your first 10 million $ and drive a Ferrari.
Concerning his looks.. dude, do you have a mirror? :lol: :lol:
About the multicore stuff... i agree with him, Gigaherz are much better than multicore from a programmer's point of view, much easier to program, and much better computing power utilization (i.e., if 2 CPUs have the same IPC, but one is 6 GHz single core, the other 3 GHz dual core, the 6 GHz single core will be faster).
And concerning DX10, who cares?
As long as he can give us eye candy with DX9... and Doom 3 was arguably the first "photorealistic" looking game.
GeneticWeapon
Splendid
- Jan 13, 2003
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Why do you care about what another guy looks like?....are you fuking gay or something?.....or do you just think that you look so much better than him?
Post a pic of yourself man....let us all be the judge of this.
The_Abyss
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- Mar 24, 2006
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Quake Wars has a little thing called gameplay going for it as well as some decent DX9 graphics.
Raising issues like this in such a childish way with a title little more mature than high school means that people will treat you with as much respect as you appear to deserve.
Of course he'll want to be promoting his own software, but if you look at what he's still doing with DX9 you'll see there innovation is still possible without having to jump into DX10 immediately.
papi4baby
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- Nov 1, 2006
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Wanker :lol:
All these programers now day, all they do is cry because they just dont want to change they way things are. We do not like change at all, so i can see why they would rather have the speed race, instead of the multicore race. Get off your lazy asses and make it work you buch of crying bastards you get pay to improve programing not whine about it.
All these programers now day, all they do is cry because they just dont want to change they way things are. We do not like change at all, so i can see why they would rather have the speed race, instead of the multicore race. Get off your lazy asses and make it work you buch of crying bastards you get pay to improve programing not whine about it.
monkeymanuk
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- Aug 2, 2006
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After reading the article I don't really see what you are complaining about.
He is mostly talking from a programmers perspective and relating the advances in technology to his work.
His take on Vista seems accurate, I don't feel compelled to upgrade. My video card does not support DX10 so I'm quite happy on XP. For myself and most other XP users the cost of upgrading to Vista would be quite significant. The only DX10 card currently available costs more than a complete PC and I'd also want an extra 2 gig of RAM. I'd then have to work out which incarntion of Vista I need. The total cost would be around £450 ($850).
In short I agree with pretty much everything he said.
He is mostly talking from a programmers perspective and relating the advances in technology to his work.
His take on Vista seems accurate, I don't feel compelled to upgrade. My video card does not support DX10 so I'm quite happy on XP. For myself and most other XP users the cost of upgrading to Vista would be quite significant. The only DX10 card currently available costs more than a complete PC and I'd also want an extra 2 gig of RAM. I'd then have to work out which incarntion of Vista I need. The total cost would be around £450 ($850).
In short I agree with pretty much everything he said.
mitch074
Splendid
- Mar 17, 2006
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I'd like to add that, if I'm not mistaken, all the games that Id software publish are OpenGL based.
As such, he would care more about the OpenGL libraries provided by major hardware makers and the extensions they support (and how they support them) than about DX10.
Please note that, from the get go, OpenGL was a language made to provide rendering functionalities whether they were implemented in software or in hardware; as such, a good OpenGL driver would provide very similar functionalities and performances on late DX9 and early DX10 hardware, be it on XP or on Vista (or on MacOS or Linux, as it is). DX provides close to no software emulation fallback - at all.
As such, I can understand that he's not being too concerned with DX10 hardware: he doesn't make use of it 'as DX10' for his games (he just looks at card capabilities to see if this or that extension is software- or hardware-based, and that can change even amongst DX9 or DX10 cards).
For example, DX9.0c Nvidia and Ati cards shared a core of functionalities, but Nvidia provided some that Ati didn't and vice-versa. It will probably be the same for DX10.
The GHz part is well known and not a surprise: FPS don't use multicores that well, and making thread-safe games is both difficult and unrewarding: one thread for IA, one for 3D-based work (physics), one for software sound acceleration, one for disk access optimization, one for networking...
Considering present hardware, only the IA is still CPU-bound, and it's a pain to multithread.
Past 2 or 4 cores (if you use lots of software emulation due to AC97 codec and cheapo network adapter), multicore is much less relevant than pure frequency and branching capabilities - personally I can see his point.
As such, he would care more about the OpenGL libraries provided by major hardware makers and the extensions they support (and how they support them) than about DX10.
Please note that, from the get go, OpenGL was a language made to provide rendering functionalities whether they were implemented in software or in hardware; as such, a good OpenGL driver would provide very similar functionalities and performances on late DX9 and early DX10 hardware, be it on XP or on Vista (or on MacOS or Linux, as it is). DX provides close to no software emulation fallback - at all.
As such, I can understand that he's not being too concerned with DX10 hardware: he doesn't make use of it 'as DX10' for his games (he just looks at card capabilities to see if this or that extension is software- or hardware-based, and that can change even amongst DX9 or DX10 cards).
For example, DX9.0c Nvidia and Ati cards shared a core of functionalities, but Nvidia provided some that Ati didn't and vice-versa. It will probably be the same for DX10.
The GHz part is well known and not a surprise: FPS don't use multicores that well, and making thread-safe games is both difficult and unrewarding: one thread for IA, one for 3D-based work (physics), one for software sound acceleration, one for disk access optimization, one for networking...
Considering present hardware, only the IA is still CPU-bound, and it's a pain to multithread.
Past 2 or 4 cores (if you use lots of software emulation due to AC97 codec and cheapo network adapter), multicore is much less relevant than pure frequency and branching capabilities - personally I can see his point.
Slobogob
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- Aug 10, 2006
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Ok buddy... most of your peers disagree and Doom3 still sucks.
His statement, given his field of work, is quite reasonable. More GHz would´ve made his life a lot easier. Yet, as we all should know, even the older Quake installments had SMP support.
I guess he hasn't seen the Crysis trailers. 75% of all games in development are DX10 titles. The only shite game that isn't is his Quake Wars.
Of course they are all DX10. The truth is though, that they probably use only a small set of the new features that was introduced with it. So while it is DX10 its more like "using Dx10 to run Dx9.
ZozZoz
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- Dec 7, 2006
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Nah, that's no mullet. Just longish hair all around that is combed back.
That whole thingreminds me of those famous comments on air-mail and telephones back in the day. Oh, how wrong those people were. And let me remind you - Carmack IS old, so he might be not so open to the new stuff, like multicore and dx10 and everything else.
Personally, I don't know what's the point of holding back from dx10. It's not like something radical has been invented. There's been dx3, 4,5,6,7,8,9, and the next one is coming along, and you can't avoid it. So might as well start sooner than later on it.
That whole thingreminds me of those famous comments on air-mail and telephones back in the day. Oh, how wrong those people were. And let me remind you - Carmack IS old, so he might be not so open to the new stuff, like multicore and dx10 and everything else.
Personally, I don't know what's the point of holding back from dx10. It's not like something radical has been invented. There's been dx3, 4,5,6,7,8,9, and the next one is coming along, and you can't avoid it. So might as well start sooner than later on it.
I disagree with you mpjesse. If we would start using words "wanker", its much more applicable to your trolling attempt than to Carmack.
IMO he is right about pretty much everything from developer point of view.
"They’re artificially doing that by tying DX10 so close it, which is really nothing about the OS ... They’re really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it,” he said."
... and this point affects all users directly, and I can only agree with Carmack. MS could easily release DX10 for WinXP, but they instead are forcing to upgrade to Vista.
IMO he is right about pretty much everything from developer point of view.
"They’re artificially doing that by tying DX10 so close it, which is really nothing about the OS ... They’re really grasping at straws for reasons to upgrade the operating system. I suspect I could run XP for a great many more years without having a problem with it,” he said."
... and this point affects all users directly, and I can only agree with Carmack. MS could easily release DX10 for WinXP, but they instead are forcing to upgrade to Vista.
Cabletwitch
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- Feb 3, 2006
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Ahahahahahahaha. Ha. ha.
Sounds like you've got an extreme personal grudge against Carmack, jesse. Otherwise, why couldnt you just ignore all this and behave like a full grown adult? Or ARE you 13?
Lets see... you said... "The only shite game that isn't is his Quake Wars."
Well, sorry to spoil that one for you, but in fact a team called Splash Damage are heading up that particular project, with not a much interference from Mr Carmack.
Of course, you ALREADY knew this, hence why you wrote what you did, didnt you?
(For those less in the know, Splash Damage were a bunch of modders who worked a lot on Quake3 mods. Oh, and they also created Wolf ET. Check out their site Here. Its a Myspace page atm, as they're still working on their main site)
As for DX10... its a fair comment to continue to develop games for the DX9 base as long as the the majority of cards in use are still DX9 parts. Whats the point of making a DX10 only game, when to be honest, not that many people will have the cards needed to run it?
The CPU power issue also a legit one. Who wouldnt want more grunt to play with when coding a game? More power means more headroom to manouvre, and plenty more torque for effects, complex lighting, complex environments and better AI. True, they could go the console route of trying to squeeze out every last drop of power from current hardware, and that would be good too. But to have the room and use it is nirvana from programmers viewpoint.
And lastly... name calling? Most of us stopped that after the age of 6.
Sounds like you've got an extreme personal grudge against Carmack, jesse. Otherwise, why couldnt you just ignore all this and behave like a full grown adult? Or ARE you 13?
Lets see... you said... "The only shite game that isn't is his Quake Wars."
Well, sorry to spoil that one for you, but in fact a team called Splash Damage are heading up that particular project, with not a much interference from Mr Carmack.
Of course, you ALREADY knew this, hence why you wrote what you did, didnt you?
(For those less in the know, Splash Damage were a bunch of modders who worked a lot on Quake3 mods. Oh, and they also created Wolf ET. Check out their site Here. Its a Myspace page atm, as they're still working on their main site)
As for DX10... its a fair comment to continue to develop games for the DX9 base as long as the the majority of cards in use are still DX9 parts. Whats the point of making a DX10 only game, when to be honest, not that many people will have the cards needed to run it?
The CPU power issue also a legit one. Who wouldnt want more grunt to play with when coding a game? More power means more headroom to manouvre, and plenty more torque for effects, complex lighting, complex environments and better AI. True, they could go the console route of trying to squeeze out every last drop of power from current hardware, and that would be good too. But to have the room and use it is nirvana from programmers viewpoint.
And lastly... name calling? Most of us stopped that after the age of 6.
Vokofpolisiekar
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- Feb 5, 2006
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I'm with Cleeve on this one: DX10 isn't showing me much incentive to move to VISTA/DX10 right now. On paper, it's got all the bells and whistles (DX10 gcard), and if I could buy without looking past that, then I would, but therein lies the problem -> it doesn't do it straight away, and support for DX10 games is scarce - don't matter how many are in development for early q2 releases.
But then again, I'm of the opinion great games don't require bleeding edge graphics to be good or enjoyable.
The CPU statement (Carmack) is wrong though - frequency can go higher but it doesn't mean more perf. I'm from the do more per clock cycle than increase rate of clock cycles camp.
But then again, I'm of the opinion great games don't require bleeding edge graphics to be good or enjoyable.
The CPU statement (Carmack) is wrong though - frequency can go higher but it doesn't mean more perf. I'm from the do more per clock cycle than increase rate of clock cycles camp.
purplepulser
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- Jul 9, 2006
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I'm also with Cleeve here and Mitch aswell.
I mean lets face it vista is just one big rip off!
i wish more developers would use opengl instead
Mpjesse:
you've changed, you used to be nice, i think?
I mean lets face it vista is just one big rip off!
i wish more developers would use opengl instead
Mpjesse:
you've changed, you used to be nice, i think?
yakyb
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- Jun 14, 2006
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to be honest i partially agree with what carmack says
with regards to the single threaded multithreaded speed right now i would prefer a 6Ghz (single core) C2D (arch) over a 2x3ghz C2D as the speed benefit for single applications would be greater (superpi 8secs 1M lol) until multithreading is utilised more in gaming (which by the way Quake 4 does)
in regards to his opinions on Vista i disagree i think that MS have produced something that is the same as XP in the way that it operates with the user (aside aero) yet at the driver level is completly different, intended to be safer(from attacks), faster and not require reboots after each installation. whether that is true or not remains to be seen
with regards to the single threaded multithreaded speed right now i would prefer a 6Ghz (single core) C2D (arch) over a 2x3ghz C2D as the speed benefit for single applications would be greater (superpi 8secs 1M lol) until multithreading is utilised more in gaming (which by the way Quake 4 does)
in regards to his opinions on Vista i disagree i think that MS have produced something that is the same as XP in the way that it operates with the user (aside aero) yet at the driver level is completly different, intended to be safer(from attacks), faster and not require reboots after each installation. whether that is true or not remains to be seen
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