Question Keyboard and mouse freeze when UPS makes a clicking sound due to voltage fluctuations ?

[beatenbrains]

Hi guys,
I built a new PC with the following specs in June of 2023. All the parts purchased were brand new.
Heres the specs:
UPS: Kstar 1500va offline UPS
PRO: Ryzen R5 7600
MOBO: GIgabyte B650M DS3H
PSU: Corsair RM850e
Ram: Kingston Fury Beast DDR 5 5600mhz 32GB (16gb x2)
Cooler: Deepcool AG620
Case: Deepcool CH560
windows:10 pro 64 bit

Since i booted this pc from day 1 i started noticing that whenever there's a voltage fluctuation my ups makes a clicking sound and then my mouse freezes for like 1-2 seconds and as for keyboard, when voltage fluctuation hits, if i was typing at that exact moment it simply long pressed that key something like (writttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt) and then resumes working. this happens only when there's a voltage fluctuation, when there is no fluctuations there is no problems at all.

--------->following the issue, i bought a PSU tester online to check if there is an issue with PSU (Corsair RM850e). i tested and the numbers came close to normal values except for PG value which was 110ms and the PSU tester was beeping indicating a problem with the PG (power good value), from what i found online, this value should be between 100-500ms but the PSU was giving out an alarm sound even though it was 110ms. then i proceeded to test another PSU (Antec neo gold 650 watts) to check if the tester was faulty or not and all the values came completely normal on that PSU including PG value which was 320ms and there was no signaling and beeping from the PSU tester.

--------->Next i tried powering the pc from another UPS and the problem still persisted so i plugged a different PC to my current UPS which was not showing USB disconnection problems while the UPS making clicking sound due to voltage fluctuations. so i came to conclusion that its probably not the UPS that's causing these issues.

--------->Then i tried installing all the drivers and updated the windows nothing helped so far. changing mouse/keyboard did not have any impact on the issue.

---------->Switching USB ports does seem to reduce these issues a bit. when i changed the USB ports from USB 2.0 to USB 3.2 gen 1 ports, the freezes seemed less frequent when the UPS clicks. but as soon i swap the mouse/keyboard usb connector to usb 2.0, the freezes happen pretty much 100% of the time the UPS makes that clicking sound.

I am afraid to even turn on the pc as i fear this could fry other components of the system. Any help regarding this issue would be a life saver for me.. i have been trying to fix this issue for quite some time now and i originally planned to use this pc for gaming. please let me know your thoughts on this. thanks in advance guys.

PSU tester video link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V5abvZ78HRtOI8kTkG0zycnuEvZp5x8Y/view?usp=sharing

 

[helpstar]

update the motherboard´s bios, but I think the UPS or the PSU or the combination of the two has to be the culprit
did you try installing the Antec neo gold 650 watt into the system?

did you connect the usb devices to the case´s front panel or the motherboard directly?

which other PC did you try?
specifications please

 

[beatenbrains]

update the motherboard´s bios, but I think the UPS or the PSU or the combination of the two has to be the culprit
did you try installing the Antec neo gold 650 watt into the system?

did you connect the usb devices to the case´s front panel or the motherboard directly?

which other PC did you try?
specifications please

i updated the motherboards bios 3 times o far (F6, F8, F9a) . its current bios version is F9a. Updating bios didn't change anything.
i did not install the Antec neo gold 650 into my current system, it was borrowed so i had to return the pc to my friend. but i do have a cooler master elite 400w psu laying around. i tried booting this pc from my kstar 1500 ups as well. turns out no issues at all.

i connected them through the motherboard usb 2.0 and 3.2 gen 1 ports directly. one thing here, connecting to usb 2.0 ports seem cause those freezes with every single click sounds from ups while using them from usb 3.2 port causes the freeze less frequently.

i tried with 2 pc so far,
My old pc.
Intel i3 10100
Gigabyte H410m S2h V2
PSU: Cooler Master Elite 400w
Corsair DDR 4 8gb 3200mhz

friends pc:
Ryzen 5600g
MSI B450M PRO-VDH MAX
Team Vulcan Z 16GB (8x2) DDR4 3200MHz
PSU: Antec Neo Gold 650w
I returned this pc.

in both of these pcs connected to Kstar 1500va there was no problem.

 

[helpstar]

then replace the PSU, eventually with a different model. Could be that the 850e is designed to work like this and a replacement with the same model wouldn´t help.

 

[bill001g]

It could be the UPS causing the issue...or more your power supply is very sensitive to the quality of the power.

Modern power supplies have become very efficient but the trade off is they need power that is of the proper voltage and frequency. Lower end UPS do not produce proper sign wave power. In most case this just means the power supply can not really deliver the power it is rated for. The power supply manufactures indicate that running on non sign wave UPS can shorten the life of the power supply.

When you hear the clicking it most times means the UPS has gone over to battery and is now proving the power rather than getting it from the city. The issue is the lower voltage might still be too high for the UPS to switch over but low enough to cause a issue on your power supply before the UPS kicks in. So it could be that the UPS is not switching fast enough for your particular power supply.

This is one of those easiest solution is to get a new power supply, best a different model/brand.

Your UPS is not optimum but even if it does not produce clean power it is not likely you are running your pc on it for a large number of minutes total in a year.

UPS that produce true sign wave are more expensive and they still have a small switch over time that poor city power can get to the equipment. There are extremely expensive UPS that do not have this switch over.

 

[beatenbrains]

then replace the PSU, eventually with a different model. Could be that the 850e is designed to work like this and a replacement with the same model wouldn´t help.

It could be the UPS causing the issue...or more your power supply is very sensitive to the quality of the power.

Modern power supplies have become very efficient but the trade off is they need power that is of the proper voltage and frequency. Lower end UPS do not produce proper sign wave power. In most case this just means the power supply can not really deliver the power it is rated for. The power supply manufactures indicate that running on non sign wave UPS can shorten the life of the power supply.

When you hear the clicking it most times means the UPS has gone over to battery and is now proving the power rather than getting it from the city. The issue is the lower voltage might still be too high for the UPS to switch over but low enough to cause a issue on your power supply before the UPS kicks in. So it could be that the UPS is not switching fast enough for your particular power supply.

This is one of those easiest solution is to get a new power supply, best a different model/brand.

Your UPS is not optimum but even if it does not produce clean power it is not likely you are running your pc on it for a large number of minutes total in a year.

UPS that produce true sign wave are more expensive and they still have a small switch over time that poor city power can get to the equipment. There are extremely expensive UPS that do not have this switch over.

I replaced the "Corsair RM850e" PSU with my spare "cooler master elite 400w", from my other pc which does not have any of these problems. Every time UPS was making that clicking sound, mouse and keyboard still would freeze and malfunction the way i described earlier.

Should i consider getting a new Online/No break UPS or there could be an issue with the motherboard that would be worth requesting RMA?

 

[bill001g]

If replacing the power supply with your other one fixed it that is a pretty clear indicator that the power supply is the problem.

It is likely something the power supply is having issues with say 5 volts or 3 volts supplies. Your cpu and video card run on 12volts but maybe the USB uses these other ones. In any case there is nothing in a power supply you can fix really

 

[beatenbrains]

If replacing the power supply with your other one fixed it that is a pretty clear indicator that the power supply is the problem.

It is likely something the power supply is having issues with say 5 volts or 3 volts supplies. Your cpu and video card run on 12volts but maybe the USB uses these other ones. In any case there is nothing in a power supply you can fix really

Sorry, i meant to say that my spare PC did not have any of the issues which has the "Cooler master elite 400W". but when i swapped the cooler master PSU into my new PC , replacing the Corsair RM850e, the problem was still there. exactly like how it was when the Corsair RM850e was installed into the pc.

As for the voltages you mentioned.. in my PSU tester, The 3.3v was showing 3.2v on my Corsair RM850e but seeing that changing PSU did not fix the problem i think you were right about MY UPS(s) not being adequate for the AM5 platform as it is the switching of ups that is triggering these malfunctions maybe. Both of my current UPS have transfer time of 4-8ms. So i was thinking maybe a No break UPS could fix this?

If its not UPS then my next guess was MOBO but then again i have no idea of checking the Motherboard.

 

[DaleH]

Sorry, i meant to say that my spare PC did not have any of the issues which has the "Cooler master elite 400W". but when i swapped the cooler master PSU into my new PC , replacing the Corsair RM850e, the problem was still there. exactly like how it was when the Corsair RM850e was installed into the pc.

As for the voltages you mentioned.. in my PSU tester, The 3.3v was showing 3.2v on my Corsair RM850e but seeing that changing PSU did not fix the problem i think you were right about MY UPS(s) not being adequate for the AM5 platform as it is the switching of ups that is triggering these malfunctions maybe. Both of my current UPS have transfer time of 4-8ms. So i was thinking maybe a No break UPS could fix this?

If its not UPS then my next guess was MOBO but then again i have no idea of checking the Motherboard.

The clicking sound is telling you that you have problems with incoming powere and that your UPS is likely not able to respond fast enough. It could be that no UPS could resolve it. Sounds like your incoming power needs to be resolved or you might try another UPS. Be nice if you could just borrow one for troubleshooting purposes.

 

[Misgar]

I checked the price of the 'Kstar 1500va offline UPS' on this web site and if I've located the correct SKU, it works out at US $76, converted from 8,300 Bangladeshi Taka.
https://www.ryanscomputers.com/kstar-1500va-offline-ups-with-plastic-body

In the "Speciality" section on the web page, it describes the Kstar inverter as:-
WAVE FORM: SINE WAVE(MAINS):
SQUARE WAVE (INVERTER),
CREST FACTOR: 3:01

From this I assume the inverter's output is a square wave, which will react in a TRULY HORRIBLE fashion with the input circuits of an ATX power supply.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-inverter-output-voltage-square-wave_fig8_295276491

It's possible the Kstar's output is a stepped approximation to a sine wave, which is better than a square wave, but still not as good as a pure sine wave.

High quality (expensive) inverters generate a true sine wave. N.B. It's not a 'sign' wave. This is a sign wave (or a wave sign).

Here are typical voltage (red) and current (blue) output waveforms for a true sine wave inverter.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ter-output-voltage-and-current_fig1_299519548

A good quality 1500VA UPS made by APC with a pure sine wave output costs over $1,000. Far too expensive for most people on a limited budget.
https://www.apc.com/uk/en/product/S...usb-and-serial-communication-avr-graphic-lcd/

TLDR
Feeding a square wave inverter output into an ATX PSU is a very bad idea and could result in "magic smoke" emanating from the power supply. Do yourself a favour and stop using the Kstar before it kills your computer.

 

[beatenbrains]

I checked the price of the 'Kstar 1500va offline UPS' on this web site and if I've located the correct SKU, it works out at US $76, converted from 8,300 Bangladeshi Taka.
https://www.ryanscomputers.com/kstar-1500va-offline-ups-with-plastic-body

In the "Speciality" section on the web page, it describes the Kstar inverter as:-
WAVE FORM: SINE WAVE(MAINS):
SQUARE WAVE (INVERTER),
CREST FACTOR: 3:01

From this I assume the inverter's output is a square wave, which will react in a TRULY HORRIBLE fashion with the input circuits of an ATX power supply.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-inverter-output-voltage-square-wave_fig8_295276491

It's possible the Kstar's output is a stepped approximation to a sine wave, which is better than a square wave, but still not as good as a pure sine wave.

High quality (expensive) inverters generate a true sine wave. N.B. It's not a 'sign' wave. This is a sign wave (or a wave sign).

Here are typical voltage (red) and current (blue) output waveforms for a true sine wave inverter.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ter-output-voltage-and-current_fig1_299519548

A good quality 1500VA UPS made by APC with a pure sine wave output costs over $1,000. Far too expensive for most people on a limited budget.
https://www.apc.com/uk/en/product/S...usb-and-serial-communication-avr-graphic-lcd/

TLDR
Feeding a square wave inverter output into an ATX PSU is a very bad idea and could result in "magic smoke" emanating from the power supply. Do yourself a favour and stop using the Kstar before it kills your computer.

oh wow. i am not very knowledgeable on these subjects. But yes it was very cheap and I couldn't give it much thought since i had no idea on the subject i basically took the sales persons word for the Kstar UPS.

One thing i cant figure out is if its the UPS causing the issues, why doesn't my other pc show any of these problems when connected to this kstar UPS.

But one thing for sure is the UPS switching (click sounds) seem to be the trigger for thise peripheral malfunctions. The issues always follow after that UPS click sound which i assume is the switching in UPS and the transfer time of 4-8ms.

Anyways, Could you check whether this UPS is okay for my setup?
https://www.ryanscomputers.com/santak-castle-series-c1k-1kva-online-ups

Or a different one within that 250usd budget.
Thank you.

 

[Misgar]

A quick look a the specs and it looks a much better unit than the Kstar. If the output really is a pure sine wave, then it is far more suitable for use with computers. Some ATX PSUs react far worse than others when fed with a square wave.

The only way to tell if it really does have pure sine wave and not stepped approximation (quasi) sine wave is to connect an oscilloscope across the output and this very dangerous for you and the test equipment if you don't know what you're doing. See if you can find a review.

I'll do more research later today when I have more time.

 

[beatenbrains]

A quick look a the specs and it looks a much better unit than the Kstar. If the output really is a pure sine wave, then it is far more suitable for use with computers. Some ATX PSUs react far worse than others when fed with a square wave.

The only way to tell if it really does have pure sine wave and not stepped approximation (quasi) sine wave is to connect an oscilloscope across the output and this very dangerous for you and the test equipment if you don't know what you're doing. See if you can find a review.

I'll do more research later today when I have more time.

Much appreciated sir.

 

[beatenbrains]

I borrowed my friend's MaxGreen MGOE W1Ks Online UPS with 0ms transfer time and pure sinewave output waveform, this time during voltage fluctuations i did not notice any malfunctions with my peripherals at all. in comparison my UPS (Kstar 1500va offline UPS) had a transfer time of 4-8ms with a simulated sine wave. while i am still not sure about the exact cause of these malfunctions, powering the pc from MaxGreen seems to have fixed my issues completely.

I will be buying a new Online UPS with 0ms transfer time and pure sine wave.

____________Thanks a lot for all your help guys. peace.__________________

 

[bill001g]

Thanks for the update it confirms what you see the manufacture of UPS saying is not all marketing bull.

It seem modern power supplies really do not like non sign wave UPS.

Many people though are still unfortantly be tempted by the lower pricing on non sign wave UPS.

 

[Misgar]

Remember, it's "sine" wave not "sign" wave.