Kinney, let's make a deal.

dhlucke · Apr 20, 2004

I'm not feeling any pressure. That's childish.

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flamethrower205 · Apr 20, 2004

You may feel some on ur bum from wingy if u show ur bare chest....

SEX is like math. Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and hope you dont multiply

phial · Apr 20, 2004

About the bet, bring that famous blind ATI conviction that seems to run through you.. how much faith do you put into those French Canadians eh DH?

i believe the term "nvidiot" came before "fanatic"

because nvidia fans just couldnt come to terms with the fact that the GFFX sucked at shading, and was slower in most other areas at first

so, really, you dont know what your talking about. ATI has had superior cards for a while now thats why peeople support them. and where do you see poeple denying that the 6800 isnt the fastest card out right now? wheres the blind worshipping that you describe

I dont have sides, I merely have had better luck with NV products.
You buy one car and it does well you're more likely to try another one again.
Its not like I havent owned ATI products, and I know you have purchased both as well.
So again, its all in good fun.

um, your describing the very thing you say you arent, which is being sided

how many posts have you made about ATI, showing the greatness of the once best-performing 9800xt, or aout the its greatness as a company? how many posts have you made other than about the 2 cards you have owned, complimening ATI?

your probably the most biased person here, which is the funny part because you stereotype US as being bias'd..

i know your going to have a 2 paragraph rebuttal for everything ive said but frankly who gives a crap lol, its so obvious that your basically known for your fanboyism now and not much else
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kinney · Apr 20, 2004

Oh cry about it phial. You sound bitter and angry, why do you give a damn what I think or say? Obviously it gets to you.

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kinney · Apr 20, 2004

Well, I don't particularely like the 5xxx FX series since it sucks compared to the competition. That's not a crime and frankly only an idiot would buy a 5000 series card when they could get an ATI card that is better. It's pretty clear.

But that's not what we are talking about.

Aye. You are correct, and I agree.

We're talking about the compulsive nature of your love for the 6800 and your hatred for ATI. You masturbate in front of the new Nvidia mermaid and I am worried about you.

Let your hate go man. The force is strong in you and you want a green lightsaber don't you? Those red ones don't net chicks. You WANT a green lightsaber!

LOL. Over the top but maybe Nalu IS kinda hot..

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coolsquirtle · Apr 20, 2004

wtf man... no offence, if i do a search i can find atleast 100 post from you saying the 5xxx series own due to the new drivers...you are contradicting yourself.

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kinney · Apr 20, 2004

I didnt say they owned. I said they did they were supposed too.

Everyone said that either the 5900 was going to be made or not with the drivers and it wasnt enough when they succeeded.

Its never enough when it comes to NV in this forum, cant you see that yet?

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CaptainNemo · Apr 21, 2004

stop whinging

Axis of Stupid = coop, Kanavit, FUGGER, SoDNighthawk, and ninkey.

kinney · Apr 21, 2004

I'll stop whinging when you finish grade school.

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Hobbit · Apr 21, 2004

Kinney, I almost never post here anymore because of the likes of the ATI sphincter spelunking gang, and the overall hostile environment Tomshardware forums has turned into, but just for you I am bothering. Far too much trash talk and attacks against people for no reason here. Many of your pseudo friends your arguing with I put in their place years ago (they will deny it of course) over how ATI drivers and tech support suck. My advice to you, if you value your time, is to not waste it and to ignore them and find another forum less hostile to counter points of view. However if your really having fun then have at it. I wish you luck.

Balls, said the Queen if I had them I would be king!

cleeve · Apr 21, 2004

Haha, the Ati Sphincter spelunking gang. Hey, does that make you a member of the Nvidia Pedophile society?

Seriously, you Nvidia fanboys are a joke. Almost everyone here who Nvidiots are claiming are Ati fanboys have said that the 6800 is an impressive piece of hardware and has a really good chance of being the king when compared to the R42x. We're just waiting for the r42x to actually, you know, SHOW UP before we make up our minds which is better, if that's OK with you.

Automatically and unquestioningly slurping up any company's white gooey PR juice doesn't sound too appealing to us I guess. Go figure.

Maybe everyone who doesn't automatically assume that Nvidia always makes the best video cards in the world is considered an Ati fanboy to you. Pathetic.

Your ignorant attitude is shown in your statement "Many of your pseudo friends your arguing with I put in their place years ago over how ATI drivers and tech support suck."

Um, years ago? Years ago Wal-Mart was a single store and 3dfx made the fastest video cards on the planet.
The point being that things change, even if we want them to remain the same so we can rally behind our favorite brand's flag. Welcome to the new milennium.

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CaptainNemo · Apr 21, 2004

Yep, fanboys are a pain.

Nvidia knocked ATI for six with the Ti4600 and derivatives, but ATI knocked Nvidia for six with the R300 and derivatives.

If Nvidia wins this round with the 6800, then so be it. Ditto for ATI with R42X. If the performance advantage of one versus the other isn't drastic, then there might be sound reasons for buying the slower card (power, heat, noise, drivers, size etc.). If the winner's advantage is drastic, then I hope that both companies are still able to compete (in mid/low range segments etc.)

Fanboyism is DUMB.

Axis of Stupid = coop, Kanavit, FUGGER, SoDNighthawk, and ninkey.

kinney · Apr 22, 2004

Kinney, I almost never post here anymore because of the likes of the ATI sphincter spelunking gang, and the overall hostile environment Tomshardware forums has turned into, but just for you I am bothering. Far too much trash talk and attacks against people for no reason here. Many of your pseudo friends your arguing with I put in their place years ago (they will deny it of course) over how ATI drivers and tech support suck. My advice to you, if you value your time, is to not waste it and to ignore them and find another forum less hostile to counter points of view. However if your really having fun then have at it. I wish you luck.

Thanks for that post Hobbit. Havent seen you around for a while, its good to hear support from an old school member.

I'm really not saying anything that is not reasonable, knowing this it is true I have found many pseudo friends in this forum. I've never thought of it that way but Cleeve (one of my former favorites) has definitely surprised me. Most of the hostility is due to noobs like this 'captainnemo' and 'darko' type f*ggots.
I do value my time and I've posted alot of good information over the years and helped alot of people.
I'm really not having fun anymore.

I completely agree with your post.
If you have any suggestions, or have found a more accepting and unbiased forum with some more educated regulars let me know.
Prior to 2001 I posted at Anandtech, and most of these guys would get bounced straight out of that forum with half of the stuff I've seen posted here. I might start doing what you do and post on multiple boards.

PM me.

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cleeve · Apr 22, 2004

You know Kinney, I'll agree with you that this forum has become quite hostile against you. And I'll agree that it's certainly not something we want to see in a forum. And it probably doesn't feel very nice.

But, damn it man, you are one of the most inflammatory posters I have ever seen. I mean, come on dude! Do you have to push everyone's buttons all the time? What kind of reaction did you expect?

Have you ever posted anything positive about an upcoming Ati card? Have you ever made a remark about how a certain feature of a non-Nvidia card is nice, or a good idea?

You know, it gets old fast... almost every post you make has a pretty one-dimensional slant to it. You keep doing that for a couple months and of course people are going to get their backs up. Are you surprised?

It gets old. It gets tired. It makes people put their backs to the wall and feel like they have to defend themselves.

You know what? You just made a real nice post in the "Far Cry Pixel Shader 3.0" thread. I really noticed it, do you know why? 1) it was from you and 2) it didn't defame any non-Nvidia companies. It almost sounded humble. Nonagressive. People can respond to a post like that without feeling like they have to defend themselves.

Usually, you end a post like that with a jab at Ati. I'm serious, think about it. Honestly, that's how you are percieved. And there's a good deal of justification for that perception from what I've seen.

I usually let this $hit roll off my back but, you say so much negative stuff it got to me. Then again, who am I but some shmuck on a message board? Why should you give a crap what I'm saying? I don't know. Whatever. For what it's worth, in my worthless opinion, a little more humility would take you a long way.

That's my two cents.

________________
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AthlonXP ~2750+ (2400+ @2.2Ghz)
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daddywags214 · Apr 22, 2004

That's more like a buck-fifty, brother. Can I push your buttons Cleevey?

<<Pushing Cleeve's buttons>>

"Where the hell is my change?!"

Anyway, to me, I think kinney isn't so much an inflammatory poster as he is a reactionary poster. And that can get anyone in some sh*t when it's so one-dimensional like that. Bon Dieu tout puissante!

AHHH MOTHERLAND!!!!!

kinney · Apr 22, 2004

You already stated I have no credibility, if thats how you feel of course I'm not going to listen to you more anymore either as I dont think thats true.

Who cares if I jab at ATI? Does not Ape and Co. jab NV subversively all the time as well?
Those arent real questions, but statements because everyone already knows the answers.
I'm not dragging anyoen else into this, I'm just stating we can all do what we want.

My viewpoint is like this-
I do what I want and think, if others dont like it, tough.
I make my educated decisions and form my opinions from that and I am willing to handle the heat from that.

Of course, I think most of the critisism is unfounded (like yours) but I admit to being overly aggressive.
I've always been one of those guys people either love, or hate with a passion.

Big deal. Either befriend me or hate me. I'm a cruel and aggressive enemy (as evident from my ATI bashing) and I'm a staunch friend to the end.
You wont ever see me not back up my friends on this forum.
Call me old fashioned. Someone, or a company has to go very far (after they've been good to me) to earn my hatred. You dont see it much on this board, but many people have had many quirks with ATI products like I contended with my TV Wonder for YEARS and even had quirks with my brand spankin new 9800s.
Dont believe me? Why dont some of you assholes do a search on Rage3d for username "kinney" and see my evolution of time after time after time after time attempting to give ATI "more time" and more f'n excuses and hottricks that we the user community had to come up with, frankly I think trying out the R300 era was MORE than ATI deserved from me.. I even sent them bugs I found through their dev partipation program. I did the search a while back just wanting to checkout my old posts there and the first one still on file is from '01.. so I've EARNED the right to bash ATI unlike so many of the noobs who dont know [-peep-] that reside in this forum.
The old cards I have of theirs are just plainly put, very subpar driver wise and performance wise for their times. While Ape calls these things "ancient issues", they are very much not. ATIs subpar performance, to be fair is actually what I would consider as barely being acceptable on my standards.
Not acceptable.

If NV's IQ is now an "ancient issue" as well, they why all the snide comments everyone posts?
Because now, it appears that is also "ancient".

Thats disregarding of course, that software support and stability are FAR more important than some IQ tradeoffs (which both companies do anyway) that are completely up to user perception as to what is right and what is wrong.
Is that really how low and pathetic ATI fanboys have gone?
For software support, its either there or its not.. but IQ, thats the golden child argument for ATIs useful idiots everywhere because its so subjective to the viewers opinion.
So just run rampant posting a bunch of BS everywhere.
When my findings on ATIs instabilities are somehow lesser news?
Quite the contrary.

Have you ever posted anything positive about an upcoming Ati card? Have you ever made a remark about how a certain feature of a non-Nvidia card is nice, or a good idea?

In all honesty, all I can say is that contrary to some here, I've actually purchased both recently. I shouldnt have to display some other form of pandering love for ATI when I have consistently found their products subpar to the rest of the market.

ie. NV and Hauppauge (vastly superior to ATIs tuners)

Anyway, like hobbit said I'm tired of wasting my breath with you guys so this will be my last post on this crap.

If you dont understand me and think that I'm contradicting myself then fine.
I hate to resort to such a childish ending, but like Ape constantly claims, "that says more about you than anything".
I dont give a damn what you guys think of me, because only a few of you are even in my league.. whether you know this or see it. I see a few fanboys with little history and experience in this field who enjoy dominating this forum with their numbers.. misusing a few articles to present their undereducated/inexperienced viewpoints.

How else to reveal ATI loyalists than for everyone to witness them lashing out against me for promoting the NV40?

For me, its been better shown now, than ever. Because those who put down the NV40 show alot more bias than I ever have.
Like I said, whose laid down the cash for BOTH? Exactly.
Think what you will, in the centrist in this forum. I'm completely fair to ATI, they have dug their own grave with consumers. But you'll always have arbitrary things like NV's IQ to point to I suppose.

I take time off once in a while from the forum and I wished I'd been posting here to see which of you noobs were just as hard on ATI for the Quack 3 controversy.
I can easily guess who the ATI apologists were.
As if thats ANY different than the "ancient" NV30 IQ complaints.

So we're essentially picking these things to hang on too-
NV cheats and hacks IQ even though that is completely subjective.
And even though ATI has done the same just as much (and I'd wager even more so) in the past, we forget that and call it "ancient issues".
Convienent selective memory and I realize you guys dont have much history in computer graphics other than what you've read so its understandable.
Not to mention that ATIs lackluster software support was and IS head and shoulders below NVs to this day.

As I've said in the past, take the BS I see posted here to Anandtechs forum and watch yourselves get eaten up by people just like me with the experience who dont see the world through red colored glasses. Thats where I came from in '01, and they are unbiased, the sheer numbers (150k users) bring too much to the table for it to be anything else.

'Nuff said!

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cleeve · Apr 22, 2004

Dude, it's not about liking you, and it's not about hating you. It's not about friends and it's not about enemies. You can be, do, and say whatever you want. It's not about any of those things. No one is, can, or plans to police what you say.

What it DOES come down to is, yes, you can say whatever you want. But like everything in life, there are consequences.

The consequence of claiming impartiality and constantly promoting a brand is that people get sick of it. That's it. End of story, there's nothing to debate about that.

I doubt you give a rat's ass what I think, but I'll tell you my opinion anyway; a little humility and less brand passion would get you a long way here. I'm not saying you should like Nvidia any less; I'm saying maybe you could concentrate on presenting your ideas in a less grating fashon.

Do what you want. Say what you want. I don't presume that anyone should have any control over your thoughts or posts.

But don't be surprised and hurt if you have to pay a consequence for going out of your way to infuriate people. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's life, dude.

________________
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TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 22, 2004

Does not Ape and Co. jab NV subversively all the time as well?

Subversively? NO!

Openly? YES!

Purposefully? Definitely!

You can argue that you don't agree, but like I said, prove it, and prove that what I said was misguided or false.

I said long ago that there would likely be issues with shader performance (shortly after 3Dmk03 came out) and that there would be issues with implementation of the 'fixes' in the forceware drivers, but that they had done a good job improving performance. Alot of people questioned that even though nV described the process quite clearly, and since I was talking about what I THOUGHT/FELT would be the case, there was no proof. Now whenever I have proof I post it. You may find that subversive, I simply calling it backing up your statements. Had the evidence proven otherwise I would have done what I have done before, and said Ooops!

Also don't confuse ancient past issues like the notoriousness of older ATI drivers (no longer notorious, just storied) with CURRENT issues like nV's problems in FarCry , and other CURRENT games. These issues may be resolved (most likely) wih the GF6800, but discussing those is not ancient history, unlike the driver issues you speak of.
It's funny that you see it as a slight IQ issue. Many of the issues that were in FarCry are quite glaring, not small issues like those in Halo or NFS:U

As for driver stability, the big difference is ATI releases driver fixes for stability whereas in the FX generation nV release IQ drops and compromises that made things far worse. And unlike your contentions, the don't both do it.

I'm completely fair to ATI[q/uote]

No, there's not a chance. Your statements of the GF6800 vs X800, be they braggadocio or not, show that you have not been fair. The fair thing to do, which is what many people here are doing, is to wait until all the cards make their appearance and THEN decide.

You have had your experiences, and definitely earned the right to talk about them. Where you step across the line of being fair is to extrapolate your experiences to the entire line.

It really doesn't matter your experiences or the experiences of 150K users, unless they can back it up with something more substantial.

Personally, I'm waiting for the facts. You may want to decide things before the contestants have even entered the ring, but that would be a decision based on conjecture and hope, and not fact; let alone that experience you are placing a high value on.

Personally I don't care about individuals' anecdotal 'experiences', I will rely on something more substantial, whether that's from Anand or someone posting actual screenies and benchmark links.

People spoke of how important the lack of FP32 would be for the R3XX series versus the NV3X series. But when it came down to proving their theories, they got results that ran contrary to their belief.

Proof isn't too much to ask for, is it?

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK

dhlucke · Apr 22, 2004

I haven't been mentioned in this thread for a while. I feel neglected.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 22, 2004

And that goes for you TOO! - ala George Bailey

Satisfied? :tongue:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

coolsquirtle · Apr 22, 2004

*hands DH a beer*

there u go!!

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy 😀

dhlucke · Apr 22, 2004

ah!

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kinney · Apr 22, 2004

The consequence of claiming impartiality and constantly promoting a brand is that people get sick of it. That's it. End of story, there's nothing to debate about that.

Besides the fact that this is false in my case.
I explained in my last post why. I've layed down the cash, I know more about ATI products than all the local ATI loyalists (and its clear who those people are) know about NV.
So what we have is a bunch of morons running around talking about IQ problems they see posted across the web.
Not impressive.

Your "paying the price for talking" lesson is exactly what the hell I stated I was saying in my last post. I say what I want and accept the morons who come after me becuase they cant accept a different point of view.

So we all coexist around a bunch of ATI witch hunting IQ specialists and a bunch of people who CANT STAND someone who honestly believes, and more importantly KNOWS precisely WHY NV is the better choice..
and even was in the NV30 era, AFTER the 5900 was released (which didnt take long).

Seriously, some of you need to learn tolerance for others point of views as hobbit said.
Its clear that the flaws in your arguments are what I expose, hence the resulting anger.
Its not my fault many cant accept change.. I was even the one who pushed the 9800 NP weeks before the ATI team leaders took notice or had the prior experience to understand its importance in the market. It wasnt even in that horrid buyers guide until I pushed and pushed.
Thats just one example!
But history revisionism seems to be a specialty of many around here..

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kinney · Apr 22, 2004

Subversively? NO!

Openly? YES!

Purposefully? Definitely!

LOL
I know this is true about you, you've said it before.. I shouldnt have invoked your name and just nailed your followers.
Yep, followers! How many people stand up to you like I do? Exactly.

I like you and respect you, you never used to say stuff like you did in the quote above as its quite clear you dont like NV and prefer ATI.
Thats fine by me dude.

I hate the little pussys who waffle around and praise your blows to NV. Its pathetic.
But more specifically, its about the little fanboys who attack ME because I present another POV.

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GeneticWeapon · Apr 22, 2004

I know more about ATI products than all the local ATI loyalists (and its clear who those people are) know about NV.

ROFL@ U Kinney!! :lol:
You wanna talk about registry combiners?...or dynamic branching?...or the shader blending being made possible by ps3.0?
Do you really want me to punk you in front of everybody?? :lol:

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Kinney, let's make a deal.

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