- Jun 26, 2002
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Few days ago, I thought Dark_Archonis was the worst hypocrite ever existed in THGC. But Kinney has proved me wrong. I thought he's AMD + nVidia version of Dark_Archonis. Now he proved that he's a two faced person. In recent past, he created a 200 post long useless thread, "I see no reason to go Intel", though there was few strong reasons to go Intel. Now he ruined a thread (where somebody asked for help) with very obvious pro-Intel comments! He tells every neutral non-hypocrite people "AMD fanboy, because they didn't think today's the worst Intel processor (P4 2.4 "Prescott" 533 FSB, No HT) next to Celerons as a good purchase.
Both times he said about himself "I'm neutral, I see the light and showing others'...". Very much Dark_Archonis like, who was also known as the Intel priest. But Kinney has surpassed him by long shot; because he has did the same thing with under both AMD and Intel banner.
Here I'm making a quick comparison of previous Kinney and current Kinney:
<b><font color=green>Kinney (before)</font color=green></b>
1) AMD64 is a must have
2) No reason to buy Intel
3) Current VIA chipsets are fine
4) A64 pricing is OK
5) P4Man is the greatest and most honorable poster in THGC
<b><font color=blue>Kinney (now)</font color=blue></b>
1) AMD64 is useless piece of trash. We still don't know about 100% compatibility of AMD64 and Intel's EMT64
2) A64 3000+ is going to be obsolete very soon.
3) VIA chipsets are the worst in the world.
4) A64s are overpriced, AMD is ripping us off
5) Crippled version of "already proven inferior" Prescott is a very good purchase, because it overclocks well.
6) Only AMD fanobys will buy A64s and will not buy P4 2.4A (Prescott)
7) HT/SSE3 are must have techs. HT makes all non-HT processors in the market obsolete, class "B" product
8) Socket 754 was doomed before it was born, so we should avoid it at all costs.
9) To show example of cheap reliable socket 478 mobo, he shows a $39 refurbished junk, which is nothing but a hit-or-miss purchase with no warranty.
10) P4Man is the worst AMD fanboy in the world. In his words, P4Man is "stubborn hate monger", he doesn't like him, talking to P4Man is like talking to tree. Let's quote his exact words-
<i>"Oh wow. Its P4man.
Everybody clap.
Worlds biggest AMD fanboy.
Yay.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your "points" as they arent even much different than things I've already responded to in this thread.
Plus talking to you is like talking to a tree.
You of ALL people will NEVER change your POV, you stubborn old hate monger.
Why dont you just die already.
I dont know why you bother to respond to me, you dont like me and I dont like you.
Leave it at that.</i>
Anyway, I have some questions for you:
1) Previously, why you worshiped AMD64? And now stating that it's completely useless, possibly incompatible or inferior compared to Intel's solution....
2) How did VIA K8 chipsets become horrible in your eye from an "OK status" within a very short period of time?
3) Why you're forgetting the fact that there is a chipset named "nForce3 250Gb" exists and mobos based on this chipsets are going to be available within few weeks?
4) How did P4Man become a twat from a holy person within 1-2 month?
Many people (including me) mentioned these facts recently. But I think I should repeat them again, because these are true facts, not wild speculations and one eyed opinion of an out-of-reality fanboy.
#1) AMD64 is neither useless, nor a must have feature. It's a bonus. Only time can show the correct usefulness of this technology.
#2) AMD64 and Intel's EMT64 is 100% compatible, though they may not be identical. For example, AXP's 3DNow! Professional is 100% compatible with P3 SSE, though it's not identical and has some extras for backward compatibility with 3D Now! And there should be no doubt about 100% compatibility, since many websites already stated that.
#3) A64 3000+ is NOT GOING TO BE OBSOLETE VERY SOON. Both AMD and Intel will have hard time improving CPU performance in near future, because both are having problems improving clock speed and it's not going to change in near future. Dual core is going to be the way to improve performance, both for AMD and Intel. It's not a thing of near future.
Moreover, "Obsolete" has more than one definition. "Obsolete" from benchmark chart POV and "Obsolete" from real world use POV is totally different. 3 years old T-bird 1.2 GHz is nowhere near top place in today's benchmark charts, but it's still a usable processor. Few months ago, it could run all games smoothly. Now it can run almost all games smoothly, but not all (FarCry for example, and Call of Duty will surely deliver better gameplay experience with a faster processor).
#4) Socket 754 may be obsolete before the time it hit market, but it's still more upgradeable than current competing solutions. Socket 478's limited to P4 3.4 GHz, but Socket 754 will be upgradeable up to 3700+ (at least). Socket 939 and LGA775 is surely going to be more upgradeable, but they're not available now. If somebody needs to build a system now and cares about better upgradeability, then socket 754 is the automatic choice.
#5) nForce3 250Gb based mobos are going to hit market very soon. They will blow away all other mobos in terms of feature. Then socket 754 can't be considered a not future proof platform in terms of feature (PCI-Ex is not going to make AGP and PCI cards vanish within a year, and socket 478 doesn't have PCI-Ex, too)
#6) VIA K8 chipsets aren't the worst thing in the world. This is not 1999 and the situation is very different. VIA K8 chipsets are very usable, though some people may not feel comfortable with them because of their past bad experience. They may not be the overclockers' chipset because it lacks PCI/AGP bus lock, may not be as feature rich as nForce3 250Gb or may be picky about memory latency. But by no means, they're unusable.
#6) AMD pricing is very fair compared to Intel. A64s are much more expensive to make compared P4s because of larger die size, more expensive SOI wafer, usage of smaller wafer. And it's a new tech, unlike P4 and AXP, so they have to make up the R&D cost. AMD is a business organization just like Intel, so we can't expect that they will not care about their R&D cost. Yet their CPUs are priced little lower than similar P4s. Think about P4 Willamette price. How inexpensive they were compared to AMD? Their reason for much higher price was larger die (thus lower yield) and R&D cost. How can any person say "AMD pricing is unfair compared to P4s" if they're not out of their mind?
7) Even Intel knows and admits that how inferior P4 "A" scotty is. This is why they rated it like Northwood "A". It should perform similar to Northwood "A" sometimes and Northwood "B" sometimes. You shouldn't forget that AXP 2400+/2500+ outperforms P4 2.4B by slight margin in almost all apps (except apps like Q3A and Lightwave), but they cost half and AXP 2500+ is also a very good overclocker, nForce2 is by no means inferior platform compared to i875/i865 platforms. P4 2.4A "scotty" is the worst Intel processor at this moment, if you put Celerons aside.
8) If overclockability is a big deciding factor for purchase, then Northwood Celerons are excellent choice, because 2.0 GHz northwood Celeron can easily reach 3 GHz.
9) There is still good Intel buys at this moment, which is Northwood "C" 2.8 to 3.2 GHz. NOT P4 2.4A "SCOTTY"
10) HT is important for P4s, not because of the overhyped "multitasking performance advantage". It makes inefficient P4s more efficient, and P4 was designed perform best with HT. We can see the benefit in almost all 3D rendering apps and many encoding apps. HT is not required for multitasking, nor make real world multitasking better. In lightweight to midweight multitasking, there’s no performance difference between P4 HT and A64. HT performance advantage becomes evident, when you do some thing like "SETI@home + 3DSMax rendering + NAV scanning + Gaming" together. But nobody ever does this kind of multitasking. And it evident performance advantage doesn't mean adequate practical performance, since it's not a real dual CPU. For example, you get 30 fps in FarCry, when running it undisturbed. If you do 3DSMax rendering at the same time, then you may get 15 fps in Far Cry in HT P4 system and 12 fps in A64 system. HT may have clear advantage here, but who cares? In both cases, gaming performance is not good enough. Extremely overhyped "Multitasking advantage" is just marketing.
11) Efficient CPUs (like A64/AXP and P3/P-M) don't need HT for achieving max. possible performance. Though AMD would add this feature just for sake of marketing, but it's impossible to implement it A64 CPUs without major redesigning. A64 will have HT like tech when A64s will be real dual core CPU.
12) HT is the thing which gives P4s edge over A64 in many rendering/encoding apps. HT gone, and P4s lose their stronghold and all specialty compared to A64, also becomes a not that superior contender of AXPs in rendering/encoding apps. This is why P4 2.4A is not a good purchase at all.
About P4Man: I always liked most of his posts, but didn't think or publicly express that he's the greatest THGC poster. I never liked somebody very much and after few days hated him passionately. In fact, this thing is very rare. Your insults towards P4Man remind me "Omid-ish insults". I didn't follow your useless fanboy threads "I see no reason to go Intel now" and "wait! I see a reason to go Intel now"
Kinney, I don't know what happened to you. Maybe AMD CEO double crossed you with your payment and Intel CEO recently has bought you a new sports car. I think you have great future in politics or law business.
I always dislike any kind of fanboys. But it's hard not to hate two sided fanboys. We don't have a ignore button in this forum. I don't think it's a good idea to have such button and use it. Except "the champion idiot of all time" SoDNighthawk, you're the first person who made me think ignore button is not completely unnecessary and usable in some cases. Recently, I didn't have much time for posting here and was posting less than before. But your two sided hypocrisy is so sickening, that it forced me to write this very long post.
Next thing in your tasklist: Doing a all-out nVidia bashing in graphics car fourm , where you're going to recommend R9600SE instead of GeForce4 Ti4200.
<i>P.S.: If you don't know who is "Dark_Archonis", then you should PM Eden or dhlucke, and you will get the info</i>
------------
<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A>
<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig</A> & <A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/benchmark.html" target="_new">3DMark score</A>
Both times he said about himself "I'm neutral, I see the light and showing others'...". Very much Dark_Archonis like, who was also known as the Intel priest. But Kinney has surpassed him by long shot; because he has did the same thing with under both AMD and Intel banner.
Here I'm making a quick comparison of previous Kinney and current Kinney:
<b><font color=green>Kinney (before)</font color=green></b>
1) AMD64 is a must have
2) No reason to buy Intel
3) Current VIA chipsets are fine
4) A64 pricing is OK
5) P4Man is the greatest and most honorable poster in THGC
<b><font color=blue>Kinney (now)</font color=blue></b>
1) AMD64 is useless piece of trash. We still don't know about 100% compatibility of AMD64 and Intel's EMT64
2) A64 3000+ is going to be obsolete very soon.
3) VIA chipsets are the worst in the world.
4) A64s are overpriced, AMD is ripping us off
5) Crippled version of "already proven inferior" Prescott is a very good purchase, because it overclocks well.
6) Only AMD fanobys will buy A64s and will not buy P4 2.4A (Prescott)
7) HT/SSE3 are must have techs. HT makes all non-HT processors in the market obsolete, class "B" product
8) Socket 754 was doomed before it was born, so we should avoid it at all costs.
9) To show example of cheap reliable socket 478 mobo, he shows a $39 refurbished junk, which is nothing but a hit-or-miss purchase with no warranty.
10) P4Man is the worst AMD fanboy in the world. In his words, P4Man is "stubborn hate monger", he doesn't like him, talking to P4Man is like talking to tree. Let's quote his exact words-
<i>"Oh wow. Its P4man.
Everybody clap.
Worlds biggest AMD fanboy.
Yay.
I'm not even going to bother responding to your "points" as they arent even much different than things I've already responded to in this thread.
Plus talking to you is like talking to a tree.
You of ALL people will NEVER change your POV, you stubborn old hate monger.
Why dont you just die already.
I dont know why you bother to respond to me, you dont like me and I dont like you.
Leave it at that.</i>
Anyway, I have some questions for you:
1) Previously, why you worshiped AMD64? And now stating that it's completely useless, possibly incompatible or inferior compared to Intel's solution....
2) How did VIA K8 chipsets become horrible in your eye from an "OK status" within a very short period of time?
3) Why you're forgetting the fact that there is a chipset named "nForce3 250Gb" exists and mobos based on this chipsets are going to be available within few weeks?
4) How did P4Man become a twat from a holy person within 1-2 month?
Many people (including me) mentioned these facts recently. But I think I should repeat them again, because these are true facts, not wild speculations and one eyed opinion of an out-of-reality fanboy.
#1) AMD64 is neither useless, nor a must have feature. It's a bonus. Only time can show the correct usefulness of this technology.
#2) AMD64 and Intel's EMT64 is 100% compatible, though they may not be identical. For example, AXP's 3DNow! Professional is 100% compatible with P3 SSE, though it's not identical and has some extras for backward compatibility with 3D Now! And there should be no doubt about 100% compatibility, since many websites already stated that.
#3) A64 3000+ is NOT GOING TO BE OBSOLETE VERY SOON. Both AMD and Intel will have hard time improving CPU performance in near future, because both are having problems improving clock speed and it's not going to change in near future. Dual core is going to be the way to improve performance, both for AMD and Intel. It's not a thing of near future.
Moreover, "Obsolete" has more than one definition. "Obsolete" from benchmark chart POV and "Obsolete" from real world use POV is totally different. 3 years old T-bird 1.2 GHz is nowhere near top place in today's benchmark charts, but it's still a usable processor. Few months ago, it could run all games smoothly. Now it can run almost all games smoothly, but not all (FarCry for example, and Call of Duty will surely deliver better gameplay experience with a faster processor).
#4) Socket 754 may be obsolete before the time it hit market, but it's still more upgradeable than current competing solutions. Socket 478's limited to P4 3.4 GHz, but Socket 754 will be upgradeable up to 3700+ (at least). Socket 939 and LGA775 is surely going to be more upgradeable, but they're not available now. If somebody needs to build a system now and cares about better upgradeability, then socket 754 is the automatic choice.
#5) nForce3 250Gb based mobos are going to hit market very soon. They will blow away all other mobos in terms of feature. Then socket 754 can't be considered a not future proof platform in terms of feature (PCI-Ex is not going to make AGP and PCI cards vanish within a year, and socket 478 doesn't have PCI-Ex, too)
#6) VIA K8 chipsets aren't the worst thing in the world. This is not 1999 and the situation is very different. VIA K8 chipsets are very usable, though some people may not feel comfortable with them because of their past bad experience. They may not be the overclockers' chipset because it lacks PCI/AGP bus lock, may not be as feature rich as nForce3 250Gb or may be picky about memory latency. But by no means, they're unusable.
#6) AMD pricing is very fair compared to Intel. A64s are much more expensive to make compared P4s because of larger die size, more expensive SOI wafer, usage of smaller wafer. And it's a new tech, unlike P4 and AXP, so they have to make up the R&D cost. AMD is a business organization just like Intel, so we can't expect that they will not care about their R&D cost. Yet their CPUs are priced little lower than similar P4s. Think about P4 Willamette price. How inexpensive they were compared to AMD? Their reason for much higher price was larger die (thus lower yield) and R&D cost. How can any person say "AMD pricing is unfair compared to P4s" if they're not out of their mind?
7) Even Intel knows and admits that how inferior P4 "A" scotty is. This is why they rated it like Northwood "A". It should perform similar to Northwood "A" sometimes and Northwood "B" sometimes. You shouldn't forget that AXP 2400+/2500+ outperforms P4 2.4B by slight margin in almost all apps (except apps like Q3A and Lightwave), but they cost half and AXP 2500+ is also a very good overclocker, nForce2 is by no means inferior platform compared to i875/i865 platforms. P4 2.4A "scotty" is the worst Intel processor at this moment, if you put Celerons aside.
8) If overclockability is a big deciding factor for purchase, then Northwood Celerons are excellent choice, because 2.0 GHz northwood Celeron can easily reach 3 GHz.
9) There is still good Intel buys at this moment, which is Northwood "C" 2.8 to 3.2 GHz. NOT P4 2.4A "SCOTTY"
10) HT is important for P4s, not because of the overhyped "multitasking performance advantage". It makes inefficient P4s more efficient, and P4 was designed perform best with HT. We can see the benefit in almost all 3D rendering apps and many encoding apps. HT is not required for multitasking, nor make real world multitasking better. In lightweight to midweight multitasking, there’s no performance difference between P4 HT and A64. HT performance advantage becomes evident, when you do some thing like "SETI@home + 3DSMax rendering + NAV scanning + Gaming" together. But nobody ever does this kind of multitasking. And it evident performance advantage doesn't mean adequate practical performance, since it's not a real dual CPU. For example, you get 30 fps in FarCry, when running it undisturbed. If you do 3DSMax rendering at the same time, then you may get 15 fps in Far Cry in HT P4 system and 12 fps in A64 system. HT may have clear advantage here, but who cares? In both cases, gaming performance is not good enough. Extremely overhyped "Multitasking advantage" is just marketing.
11) Efficient CPUs (like A64/AXP and P3/P-M) don't need HT for achieving max. possible performance. Though AMD would add this feature just for sake of marketing, but it's impossible to implement it A64 CPUs without major redesigning. A64 will have HT like tech when A64s will be real dual core CPU.
12) HT is the thing which gives P4s edge over A64 in many rendering/encoding apps. HT gone, and P4s lose their stronghold and all specialty compared to A64, also becomes a not that superior contender of AXPs in rendering/encoding apps. This is why P4 2.4A is not a good purchase at all.
About P4Man: I always liked most of his posts, but didn't think or publicly express that he's the greatest THGC poster. I never liked somebody very much and after few days hated him passionately. In fact, this thing is very rare. Your insults towards P4Man remind me "Omid-ish insults". I didn't follow your useless fanboy threads "I see no reason to go Intel now" and "wait! I see a reason to go Intel now"
Kinney, I don't know what happened to you. Maybe AMD CEO double crossed you with your payment and Intel CEO recently has bought you a new sports car. I think you have great future in politics or law business.
I always dislike any kind of fanboys. But it's hard not to hate two sided fanboys. We don't have a ignore button in this forum. I don't think it's a good idea to have such button and use it. Except "the champion idiot of all time" SoDNighthawk, you're the first person who made me think ignore button is not completely unnecessary and usable in some cases. Recently, I didn't have much time for posting here and was posting less than before. But your two sided hypocrisy is so sickening, that it forced me to write this very long post.
Next thing in your tasklist: Doing a all-out nVidia bashing in graphics car fourm , where you're going to recommend R9600SE instead of GeForce4 Ti4200.
<i>P.S.: If you don't know who is "Dark_Archonis", then you should PM Eden or dhlucke, and you will get the info</i>
------------
<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86" target="_new">My Website</A>
<A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/myrig.html" target="_new">My Rig</A> & <A HREF="http://geocities.com/spitfire_x86/benchmark.html" target="_new">3DMark score</A>
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