Left 4 dead fps limit command

[michaelmk86]

Is there a fps limit command for left 4 dead?

 

[michaelmk86]

I try “max_fps nuber” in the “set launch options” and didn’t work Also left 4 dead do not have console.

 

[michaelmk86]

I try fps_max to the console but didn’t work

 

[michaelmk86]

Because in online games you have to be competitive, so 60fps(v-sync) is not very good. I like to have 90fps constant.

 

[michaelmk86]

Yes you are right the human eye can see only 60fps, but from 60fps to 90fps you can feel the difference in online gaming. For example in cod 91fps constant is so much better than 60fps(v-sync), the difference is so big that in 60fps(v-sync) barely i can play(I mean I cannot be competitive, the game still look very very smooth) and when I play with 91fps constant is just perfect(I mean I can kill everyone and get top score).

 

[michaelmk86]

And how you can explain that with 91fps constant I am a very good player and with 60fps I am a bad player?

 

[mi1ez]

confidence boost?

*shrug*

 

[michaelmk86]

Fraps or i can see if i have 91 i can see screen tearing if i have 60fps(v-sync) i cannot see screen tearing. both 91fsp and 60fps are very smooth but when I have 91fps I am much better player.

 

[djcoolmasterx]

Placebo effect.

 

[gamerk316]

An LCD screen can only display up to its current refresh rate. Every time the screen refreshes, a new image (or the current one) is drawn to the screen. In short, for most LCD's, any number over 60 is irrelevent.

 

[gamerk316]

Screen does not refresh, no image is drawn.

Refresh rate: The number of times per second in which the monitor draws the data it is being given. Since activated LCD pixels do not flash on/off between frames, LCD monitors exhibit no refresh-induced flicker, no matter how low the refresh rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lcd_display

As I said before, most LCD moniters can not refresh more than 60 times per second, so any higher FPS goes to waste, as even though the GPU is capable of producing 91 FPS, the moniter can not DISPLAY all of those frames.

 

[gamerk316]

Read my post above your and all the others i have posted in, i know fine well how an lcd works.

There is no refresh rate as far as the image is concerned. That quote you provided is complete and utter bollocks.

*sigh*, I just got done with a debate just like this over at guru3d. The refresh rate for an LCD refers to how many times per second a pixel can switch colors. As such, the most you can effectivly re-draw a screen for most LCD moniters is 60 times per second.

 

[gamerk316]

No, that is the response time ffs. The screen is not redrawn.

The refresh rate, if you are going to use the term in regards LCD's, as i pointed out in my above post is how many signals or refreshes the monitor's electronics can handle.

The actual LCD's have no such refrsh rate. They have a response time, the time it takes to change state but that is not constant nor limited to 60mhz. Absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Seriously, go do some reading and get back to me when you have been educated. I have had these discussions far too many times and yet still people like you andf the OP cannot get their head around the change in tech.

Incorrect. A LCD's refresh rate is how many times per second a signal can be sent to tell a pixel (or multiple pixles) to change color. And as you mentioned above, that more of an electronic limit more than anything.

Refresh rate: The number of times per second in which the monitor draws the data it is being given. Since activated LCD pixels do not flash on/off between frames, LCD monitors exhibit no refresh-induced flicker, no matter how low the refresh rate. [4] Many high-end LCD televisions now have a 120 Hz (current and former NTSC countries) or 200 Hz (PAL/SECAM countries) refresh rate. The rate of 120 was chosen as the least common multiple of 24 frame/s (cinema) and 30 frame/s (NTSC TV), and allows for less distortion when movies are viewed due to the elimination of telecine (3:2 pulldown). For PAL/SECAM at 25 frame/s, 200 Hz is used as a compromise of one-third the least common multiple of 600 (24 x 25). This is most effective from a 24p-source video output (available on Blu-ray DVD).

In contrast, the response time is the time it takes for a given pixel to actually change its color once it receives the signal.

Response time: The minimum time necessary to change a pixel's color or brightness. Response time is also divided into rise and fall time. For LCD Monitors, this is measured in btb (black to black) or gtg (gray to gray). These different types of measurements make comparison difficult. A response time of <16ms is sufficient for video-gaming[1], and the difference between response times once they're below 10ms begin becoming imperceptible due to limitations of the human eye [2] [3]

The mistake you are making, is you are not distinguishing between a signal telling a pixel to change color (Refresh rate), and the time it takes for that change to occur (Response time).

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lcd

 

[djcoolmasterx]

Does it matter?

 

[gamerk316]

I have already said that the 60hz refers to how many signals the monitor can accept which is correct

Good so far

I have already said that how much fps you can have is determined moreso by the response times than how many signals the monitor can process.

Incorrect. The response time for most moniters is miniscule compared to the refresh rate (even if the screen doesnt 'refresh', thats still the term used to describe an image being displayed x times per second), especially the commonly used 60Hz.

The Response Time of a moniter simply states how qucikly pixels change color (a high response time means that there will be display lag between when the frame is sent to the moniter and when it actually gets drawn; a 10ms Response Time means that on average, the image displayed on the screen will be 10ms behind when the image was sent to the moniter for the first time). This not not affect in any way how many times per second a moniter can accept/draw an incomming image, just how long it takes that image to show up on the screen after it is received.

Does it matter?

Not really, but I can't stand incorrect facts. You should see me in more political forums...


Back to the OP, 91FPS on a LCD moniter that (I'm assuming) has a 60Hz refresh rate simply means that while the GPU can render enough data to draw 91 images per second, your screen can only physically display 60. Those extra 31 FPS are simply wasted GPU cycles. Hence why I always force Vsync on, as for each time the moniter is ready to accept an image, one image is generated and sent to the screen. (If an image is not ready, keep the current one displayed). Less work for the GPU, and it helps lower temps a bit.

 

[SpinachEater]

Here is a list of the console commands in case any one would like them

http://left4dead.wikia.com/wiki/Complete_list_of_console_commands

 

[michaelmk86]

Lads . . . stop bickering!

We all got our own exact ideas on whats right and whats not right.

 

[gamerk316]

Response time, is the time taken for a liquid crystal to change state

Good so far...

This number is not constant. Now if it take an LC 10ms to change state then the maximum amount of times per second it can do that will be 100fps(1000 / 10)

However, the amount taken varies on what the state transition is so you may go as high as 20ms which will only allow 50fps.

Wrong again. You want links, here you go:

http://knol.google.com/k/joshua-buss/refresh-rate-frames-per-second-and/1er05sv8gxam7/2#

Refresh Rate: The rate at which your video card is sending complete screens from its frame buffer memory to your monitor, and the corresponding rate at which the monitor refreshes the whole image. 60hz = 60 complete refreshes per second.
FPS: Frames Per Second, the rate at which your video card is drawing frames to its frame buffer. If the FPS is higher than than the refresh rate, then the extra frames are lost and tearing could occur.
Tearing: A screen artifact characterized by the display updating the screen to a portion of a new frame and a portion of an old frame instead of the entire new frame. The result can be best identified by jagged horizontal bands during scenes of constant diagonal motion.
Vertical Sync: The act of synchronizing the FPS rate to a multiple of the refresh rate. For instance, if the video card can output 79 FPS but the refresh rate is 60hz, the video card will time the drawing of its completed frames to the frame buffer to exactly 60 times a second. If the video card is only capable of outputting 50 FPS and the refresh rate is 60hz, the video card will either stagger the output to span multiple monitor refresh cycles or it will reduce the frame rate to 30fps, so that each frame is sent to the monitor twice. Note that the refresh rate stays 60hz in this scenario, but the viewer will only see 30 unique frames every second.
Response Time: The amount of time it takes a pixel to change from one specific color to another color in an LCD display. Typically the figures are worst for certain colors, but if the refresh rate of the LCD monitor is greater than the response time of its pixels' crystals, blurring / ghosting will occur.
Blurring / Ghosting: Screen artifacts characterized by colors lingering longer than they should. Instead of a crisp transition to the new color, the new target color is only partially achieved by the time the new frame is expected to be on the screen. The result is a trailing, 'ghost' image or general blurriness around moving patterns where colors have changed across a line.

http://easyhdtv.blogspot.com/2007/02/refresh-rate-response-time.html

Refresh Rate: The refresh rate is the number of times a display's image is repainted or refreshed per second. The refresh rate is expressed in "Hertz." A refresh rate of 75 means the image is refreshed or "redrawn" 75 times in a second. Acceptable refresh rates for the human eye is anything over 70hz. Refresh rates pertain mostly to Plasma and CRT Tube tv's. Low refresh rates result in on-screen flicker, which can make the eye tired as the screen isn't refreshing fast enough for the human eye.


Response Time: While a CRT Tube "repaints" the picture on the entire screen, LCD's work differently. Unlike a tube, LCD's are digital in nature and pixel based. The "response time" pertains to the time it takes for an LCD to make a pixel go from active (black) to inactive (white) and back to active (black) again. It is measured in milliseconds (ms). The faster the response time, the better. Failure to do this efficiently can cause smearing or ghosting where the image of a previously displayed screen image is still on the screen after a new image is displayed. LCD's are getting progressively better at this, while 8-12ms is more common, response times have gotten as fast as 6ms with some of Sharps, Aquos line of LCD's.

http://tv.about.com/od/glossary/g/responsetime.htm

http://hometheater.about.com/od/televisionbasics/qt/framevsrefresh.htm

What makes things confusing is the concept of how many separate and discreet frames are displayed every second, verses how many times the frame is repeated every 1/24th, 1/25, or 1/30th of a second to match the refresh rate of the Television display.

TVs have their own screen refresh capabilities. A television's screen refresh rate is usually listed in the user manual or on the manufaturer's product web page.

The most common refresh rate for today's Televisions are 60hz for NTSC-based systems and 50hz for PAL-based systems. However, with the introduction of some Blu-ray Disc and HD-DVD players that can actually output a 24 frame per second video signal, instead of the traditional 30 frame per second video signal, new refresh rates are being implemented by some television display makers to accommodate these signals in the correct mathematical ratio.

If you have a TV with a 120hz refresh rate that is 1080p/24 compatible (1920 pixels across the screen vs 1080 pixels down the screen, with a 24 frame per second rate). The TV ends up displaying 24 separate frames every second, but repeats each frame according to the refresh rate of the TV. In the case of 120hz each frame would be displayed 5 times within each 24th of a second.

In other words, even with higher refresh rates, there are still only 24 separate frames displayed every second, but they may need to be displayed multiple times, depending on the refresh rate.

Summary: Response time, as I've been saying, is the time it takes for a pixel to change color. While this does effect blurriness, it has NO effect on framerate.

Now, either provide some links to your point of view, or just drop it.

 

[Captainhero]

lol this has been funny reading, as far as most people know or care about they just work, maybe its witchcraft!! I would suggest a period of relaxation perusing lemonparty 😉

 

[gamerk316]

The pixel response time is often confused with the LCD input lag which adds another form of latency to pictures displayed by LCD screens.

Got that from wikipedia myself which is what you are confusing it with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lcd_Response_Time

I do not need a link for this as it does not require one, it just requires you to think.

If the liquid crystals take a certain, variable amount of time to change state then that means there is a limit to how often they can do so per second, so since each time they change state allows you to know that the image is changing, you can only see as much images per second as they can display, i.e Frames Per Second.

Ghosting is caused by the fact that the LCD can not update it's image fast enough causing blending as it changes states.

Seriously, i am not wrong here, i and alot of other will say the same thing, you have read the information but just not understood it.

The problem with your theory, as I've already stated, is that the 10ms response time most LCD's have will never, ever, approach the screen refresh rate.

Assuiming a 10ms Response Time and 60Hz:

10ms = .001 seconds for pixel to change state
1Hz / 60 = .016 seconds per screen refresh

As you can see, the Response Time is 16x faster then the refresh rate, so the Response Time has no effect on how often a screen can be drawn (using above example, there should be minimal distoration from Response Time up to (60 * 16 = 960 / 2 = 480) FPS** . Granted, given a low Refresh Rate and a high Response Time, you could THEORETICALLY have a situation where the pixels can not change state quickly enough to generate the image being sent to the moniter (IE: Latency more than the time to recieve signal), but even when response times were higher there was never a situation where this occured.

You are taking a term, and completely confusing it with something else to "prove" that you are correct.

Refresh Rate = screen draw rate per second; Response Time = latency. And given how low that latency is, you will never encounter a situation where Respone Time will affect FPS.

I am NOT talking about Input Lag, which is another topic entirely.

Causes of input lag
While the pixel response time of the display is usually listed in the monitor's specifications, no manufacturers advertise the input lag of their displays, likely because the trend has been to increase input lag as manufacturers find more ways to process input at the display level before it is shown. Possible culprits are the processing overhead of HDCP, DRM, and also DSP techniques employed to reduce the effects of ghosting - and the cause may vary depending on the model of display. Investigations have been performed by several technology related websites; some of which are listed at the bottom of this article.

LCD and plasma displays, unlike CRTs, have a native resolution. That is, they have a fixed grid of pixels on the screen that show the image sharpest when running at the native resolution (so nothing has to be scaled full-size which blurs the image). One common source of input lag that is separate from others is the introduction of latency due to internal scaling for non-native resolutions.[citation needed] As an example, a display that has a native resolution of 1600x1200 being provided a signal of 640x480 must scale width and height by 2.5x in order to display the image provided by the computer on the native pixels. In order to do this, advanced signal processing is required, which can be a source of introduced latency. Anecdotally, input lag is significantly less when displays operate in native resolutions for a given LCD screen. External devices have also been shown to reduce overall latency by providing faster image-space resizing algorithms than those present in the LCD screen.

Input lag versus response time
LCD screens with a high response time value often do not give satisfactory experience when viewing fast moving images (They often leave streaks or blur; called Ghosting). But an LCD screen with high response time AND significant input lag is unsuitable for playing fast paced computer games or performing fast high accuracy operations on the screen (e.g. CAD design) due to the mouse cursor lagging behind. Manufacturers only state the response time of their displays and do not inform customers of the input lag value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_lag

As you can see, Response Time and Input Lag are two seperate topics entirely. Now your're just confusing yourself.


*Too be fully correct, FPS is moniter independent; we're talking about those images being drawn to the screen, not actual FPS.

**I use the divide by half because the Response Time is an average value, so I'm assuing a 50% margin of error as a worst case.

 

[SpinachEater]

The thing, is, in certain games, 60FPS gives you a screen distortion when turning really quickly. When walking in one direction, 60FPS is indistinguishable from 120 but turning is where it gets messy. This is what people are talking about when they feel the difference between 60FPS and anything higher.

Having the extra FPS count isnt a waste when you factor in FPS dips. It is a buffer value, not a waste IMO.

You do a turn in under a second so you never quite know the exact FPS drop during that turn. IMO, it isn't the FPS that make you a worse player, it is the time it takes to focus your eyes on a target after swinging around really quickly and getting that slight distortion in your screen.

If you turn down your settings you probably won't get this distortion because your GPU will be able to keep up with a quick turn. Motion blur is such a wonderful thing. It makes games like Crysis very playable at 40FPS.

 

[rags_20]

You have already talked about this in other threads, michael. It may make you feel better to see 90fps on the display counter, but its no use. Unless you get a 120Hz monitor.

You know what he says in CoD4? - You can try pulling if it makes you feel better 😀

 

[gamerk316]

The thing, is, in certain games, 60FPS gives you a screen distortion when turning really quickly. When walking in one direction, 60FPS is indistinguishable from 120 but turning is where it gets messy. This is what people are talking about when they feel the difference between 60FPS and anything higher.

Having the extra FPS count isnt a waste when you factor in FPS dips. It is a buffer value, not a waste IMO.

You do a turn in under a second so you never quite know the exact FPS drop during that turn. IMO, it isn't the FPS that make you a worse player, it is the time it takes to focus your eyes on a target after swinging around really quickly and getting that slight distortion in your screen.

If you turn down your settings you probably won't get this distortion because your GPU will be able to keep up with a quick turn. Motion blur is such a wonderful thing. It makes games like Crysis very playable at 40FPS.

You hit a valid point with the buffers; that does affect things somewhat when FPS dips (as you have a frame ready to go, which helps if FPS starts to dip). And the distortion you speak of is more of an issue with not using Vsync, but I refuse to start another "Vsync and Input Lag" thread, so I'll just stop there.

 

[gamerk316]

1000 / 10 =?

1000 / 20 =?

1000 / 30 =?

I don't even know what those numbers are. Whats 10? 10Mhz refresh rate? 10ms response time? And I have no clue where 1000 is comming from...

 

[SpinachEater]

I hate vsync. More times than not, I get a slight mouse lag (looking left to right for example). It does smooth the performance but the lag annoys the jollys out of me. FC2 does it to me when I have vsync on.

The more FPS the bigger your epeen is right? I don't game with anything less than 200