List of most important bugs

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Wanderer wrote:
> xhoch3 wrote:
>
>> On Thu Jaakko Iisala wrote:
>>
>>> I have had several characters lost to a very annoying bug witch I
>>> have never remeber been discussed here and witch wasn't on your
>>> list either.
>
>
> It's been discussed, all right, though not to my knowledge recently.
>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> o
>>> i
>>> l
>>> e
>>> r
>>>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>>>
>>> h
>>> e
>>> r
>>> e
>>>
>>> After giving the amulet of life saving to whatshisname the dying
>>> sage he starts to speak and I hit enter and the game crashes
>>> there. No emergency save or nothing.
>>
>>
>> I don't think this one is reproducible, so I won't put it in,
>> unless anyone has some kind of explanation.
>
>
> IIRC, this is not unrelated to the ingot crash bug. It happens
> sometimes based on what he drops; I think it's a matter of having two
> separate stacks which should be combined into one but for some reason
> weren't.

He shouldn't ever be able to drop ignots of course, so this might be a
broader bug than just ingots. This may also relate to the bug I have a
saved game for where it crashes when I walk over stuff dropped by a
werewolf lord.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>
>> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>>
> What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch
> shouldn't wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?

Apparently, molochs who wear moloch armour get their speed lowered
further. It thus gets so low that it wraps around, making them
incredibly fast.

>> * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
>> reported 7 times on www.adom.de
>>
> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?

In the talent list, presumably.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> xhoch3 wrote:
>
>> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>>
>>> * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>>>
>> What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch
>> shouldn't wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?
>
>
> Apparently, molochs who wear moloch armour get their speed lowered
> further. It thus gets so low that it wraps around, making them
> incredibly fast.
>
>>> * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
>>> reported 7 times on www.adom.de
>>>
>> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?
>
>
> In the talent list, presumably.

Other typos:

"are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message given
for dying companion.
"Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" - sond
instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you wish for
the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone tried this?
There are different messages before and after death when wishing for the
empeoror moloch and the minotaur emperor as well... if it gives the same
message then I think that's another (very) minor bug too.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:

> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>
> >
> > I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
> >
> > Bugs:
> >
> [snip]

FWIW: Probably the bug report number #4272 about the uberjackal effect is
worth mentioning. http://www.adom.de/adom/report.php3?ident=4272

> >
> > * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
> >
> What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch shouldn't
> wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?

Sorry for not saying what I mean... But others have already explained it.

> >
> > * 1 xp for cat lord after killing 300 cats
> >
> > * There is a bug that causes a recoverable crash with message
> > "Invalid target in GetTargetData." on each turn
> > (about 20 reports on www.adom.de; supposedly it's related to near
> > death berserking of allies, and it stops when PC leaves the level)
> >
> Where did you get the information from that it has something to do with
> berserking of allies?

It's my guess... based on these reports and my own experience. But it
does not have to be accurate.

> >
> > * rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)
> >
> RFE.

Why? It's either a bug or not a well-thought feature. I think it qualifies
as a bug.

> >
> > * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
> > reported 7 times on www.adom.de
> >
> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?

Talent list (in game).

> >
> >
> > Exploits - nice if fixed, but honest players can also just say that
> > they won't use them:
> >
[snip]
> > * unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name
> >
> Well, it's kind of the same with all unIDed equipment. I commonly use this
> so I know whether the ration I picked up is cursed or not, I just buy an
> uncursed and a blessed one in a shop (the price is different) and
> everytime I pick a new one up, I look to which it is added, thus I know
> whether it is b/u/c. This may be considered as bug, but it was there from
> the beginning and I don't think TB will ever change it. I will mention it.

It's a bit different thing than the one you mention... And probably easier
to fix.

[snip]
> >
> > * look command can detect webs
> >
> Huh? Why should it be impossible to look at webs?

Sorry again... If you have explored the whole level, and then you hear
that a spider has placed a web, you can move the "look" cursor over the
whole level, and it will inform about this web when it is placed on it.

(Probably not worth it to add to the most severe bug list.)

As for RFEs:

Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas implemented
a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example: create temporary
files that the game can merge into a savefile; these files could be
created when changing location, or each 1000 turns)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
>
> Other typos:
>
> "are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message given
> for dying companion.
>
> "Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" - sond
> instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you wish for
> the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone tried this?

Bugs #2376 and #3194, reported well over two years ago, the former by
yours truly. ;-) Let's not create more dupes.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
> >
>
>> Other typos:
>>
>> "are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message
>> given for dying companion.
>
>
>> "Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" -
>> sond instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you
>> wish for the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone
>> tried this?
>
>
> Bugs #2376 and #3194, reported well over two years ago, the former by
> yours truly. ;-) Let's not create more dupes.

They aren't dupes if Thomas doesn't know about them 😛 I personally have
next to no faith that the bug database has really been looked at enough
that TB even knows about stuff like this. Obviously we're already
listing Skilled and Berferking, and those have been duped about 1000
times eachin the bdb...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>>> Other typos:
>>>
>>> "are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message
>>> given for dying companion.
>>
>>> "Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" -
>>> sond instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you
>>> wish for the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone
>>> tried this?
>>
>> Bugs #2376 and #3194, reported well over two years ago, the former by
>> yours truly. ;-) Let's not create more dupes.
>
> They aren't dupes if Thomas doesn't know about them 😛 I personally have
> next to no faith that the bug database has really been looked at enough
> that TB even knows about stuff like this. Obviously we're already
> listing Skilled and Berferking, and those have been duped about 1000
> times eachin the bdb...

Berferking is listed because it is an important issue for many people in
this group. (Whether or not the "skilled" talent is important is
debatable, but this is a separate issue.) I may say with some confidence
that typos in messages that are never generated are an issue which is
considerably less dear to the heart of the average ADOM player. As the
subject says, we are collecting a "list of most important bugs". For
"not important" bugs, there is still the bug database.

Lack of confidence in TB's handling of the bug database is not a
sufficient reason for pestering him with *another* large document
listing a thousand bugs for the second time. Unless someone took great
care that no bug from the database were omitted from the list, we would
only create a second bug database with gigantic overlap but enough
differences to require Thomas to go through *both* lists if he wants to
be sure that all bugs are squashed. This serves no purpose whatsoever,
and is a great waste of time for everyone involved.

Regarding the status of ADOM development and the bug database, here's a
relevant notice from www.adom.de:

"Preparing for Christmas time... (12/08/2004, 12:35)

Holiday secured... check. Bug / RFE list updated... check. Time secured
for ADOM programming... check. Ok, looks like a fun time ahead...
looking forward for the next version... 4000 RFEs / bugs to be
skimmed... interesting 🙂"

In the past, Thomas has normally gone through the bugs in the database
just before a release, and rarely made any comments/changes at other
times. The situation now does not appear special to me.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Malte Helmert wrote:
> Twinge wrote:
>
>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>
>>>> Other typos:
>>>>
>>>> "are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message
>>>> given for dying companion.
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" -
>>>> sond instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you
>>>> wish for the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone
>>>> tried this?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bugs #2376 and #3194, reported well over two years ago, the former by
>>> yours truly. ;-) Let's not create more dupes.
>>
>>
>> They aren't dupes if Thomas doesn't know about them 😛 I personally have
>> next to no faith that the bug database has really been looked at enough
>> that TB even knows about stuff like this. Obviously we're already
>> listing Skilled and Berferking, and those have been duped about 1000
>> times eachin the bdb...
>
>
> Berferking is listed because it is an important issue for many people in
> this group. (Whether or not the "skilled" talent is important is
> debatable, but this is a separate issue.) I may say with some confidence
> that typos in messages that are never generated are an issue which is
> considerably less dear to the heart of the average ADOM player. As the
> subject says, we are collecting a "list of most important bugs". For
> "not important" bugs, there is still the bug database.
>
> Lack of confidence in TB's handling of the bug database is not a
> sufficient reason for pestering him with *another* large document
> listing a thousand bugs for the second time. Unless someone took great
> care that no bug from the database were omitted from the list, we would
> only create a second bug database with gigantic overlap but enough
> differences to require Thomas to go through *both* lists if he wants to
> be sure that all bugs are squashed. This serves no purpose whatsoever,
> and is a great waste of time for everyone involved.
>
> Regarding the status of ADOM development and the bug database, here's a
> relevant notice from www.adom.de:
>
> "Preparing for Christmas time... (12/08/2004, 12:35)
>
> Holiday secured... check. Bug / RFE list updated... check. Time secured
> for ADOM programming... check. Ok, looks like a fun time ahead...
> looking forward for the next version... 4000 RFEs / bugs to be
> skimmed... interesting 🙂"
>
> In the past, Thomas has normally gone through the bugs in the database
> just before a release, and rarely made any comments/changes at other
> times. The situation now does not appear special to me.

Fair enough. I haven't been playing ADOM that long (1.1.1 was already
released when I started) so I don't know these things, just going off of
what I've seen. The bug database just seemed like such a mess that it
was practically ignored, but perhaps this is not the case after all.
It's hard to say for sure, of course.

So I guess what you think we should have on this list are either bugs
that are important and significant (even if mentioned 1000 times), or if
they're insignificant they shouldn't have been mentioned in the bug
database yet at all? 😉 That works I suppose.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:31:07 -0500, The Wanderer
<inverseparadox@comcast.net> wrote:

> xhoch3 wrote:
>
>> On Thu Jaakko Iisala wrote:
>>
>>> I have had several characters lost to a very annoying bug witch I
>>> have never remeber been discussed here and witch wasn't on your
>>> list either.
>
> It's been discussed, all right, though not to my knowledge recently.

Ok I might have missed it since I only read the group semi regulary.
(have been doing so since 1998 with <20 posts so I might call my self the
most
unactive member of rec.games.roguelike.adom-society 😀 )

--
Signatures are for them amateurs.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:

> The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> xhoch3 wrote:

> It's been discussed, all right, though not to my knowledge recently.
>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> o
>>> i
>>> l
>>> e
>>> r
>>>
>>> s
>>> p
>>> a
>>> c
>>> e
>>>
>>> h
>>> e
>>> r
>>> e

>>> I don't think this one is reproducible, so I won't put it in,
>>> unless anyone has some kind of explanation.
>>
>> IIRC, this is not unrelated to the ingot crash bug. It happens
>> sometimes based on what he drops; I think it's a matter of having
>> two separate stacks which should be combined into one but for some
>> reason weren't.
>
> He shouldn't ever be able to drop ignots of course, so this might be
> a broader bug than just ingots. This may also relate to the bug I
> have a saved game for where it crashes when I walk over stuff dropped
> by a werewolf lord.

He doesn't drop ingots, no - that's why I'm not sure it's related to
that. According to the best synthesis of all reports I've seen, however,
the bug is in fact related to what he drops, and more specifically to
there being present on a given square simultaneously two stacks of the
same item where the only difference is that one is not identified; the
crash appears to be triggered when this discrepancy is in some way
"noticed" by the game, which presumably also happens when you step onto
the square.

I forget whether or not it was ever determined what exactly, of the
things he drops, was causing the problem...

Eh. I'm less than ideally coherent tonight. The problem is not inherent
to ingots, no. It appeas to be a matter of conflicting identification
states being present in the same square (or in one's inventory, I
suppose), and for some reason the conflicting situation is most readily
generated in-game by ingots.

It had been previously noticed that some items would at times fail to
auto-identify even though an item of the same type had been previously
identified (glass amulets spring to mind, for me), but prior to recent
versions these did not crash the game; I'm not sure that that mixup is
related to the bug at hand, but it's close enough that I felt it worth
mentioning.

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

The Wanderer wrote:

> Twinge wrote:

> > The Wanderer wrote:

> > > xhoch3 wrote:

> >>> s
> >>> p
> >>> o
> >>> i
> >>> l
> >>> e
> >>> r

> >>> s
> >>> p
> >>> a
> >>> c
> >>> e

> >>> h
> >>> e
> >>> r
> >>> e

> > > IIRC, this is not unrelated to the ingot crash bug. It happens
> > > sometimes based on what he drops; I think it's a matter of having
> > > two separate stacks which should be combined into one but for some
> > > reason weren't.

> > He shouldn't ever be able to drop ignots of course, so this might be
> > a broader bug than just ingots. This may also relate to the bug I
> > have a saved game for where it crashes when I walk over stuff dropped
> > by a werewolf lord.

> He doesn't drop ingots, no - that's why I'm not sure it's related to
> that. According to the best synthesis of all reports I've seen, however,
> the bug is in fact related to what he drops, and more specifically to
> there being present on a given square simultaneously two stacks of the
> same item where the only difference is that one is not identified; the
> crash appears to be triggered when this discrepancy is in some way
> "noticed" by the game, which presumably also happens when you step onto
> the square.

> I forget whether or not it was ever determined what exactly, of the
> things he drops, was causing the problem...

> Eh. I'm less than ideally coherent tonight. The problem is not inherent
> to ingots, no. It appeas to be a matter of conflicting identification
> states being present in the same square (or in one's inventory, I
> suppose), and for some reason the conflicting situation is most readily
> generated in-game by ingots.

> It had been previously noticed that some items would at times fail to
> auto-identify even though an item of the same type had been previously
> identified (glass amulets spring to mind, for me), but prior to recent
> versions these did not crash the game; I'm not sure that that mixup is
> related to the bug at hand, but it's close enough that I felt it worth
> mentioning.

This whole phenomenon, in what ever guise it takes, is related to the
global stacking bug in ADOM that has been present for many years,
dating back to at least Gamma 8, if not Gamma 6. I thought I had
concrete examples of this in the guidebook, but I can't find them. In
any case, it manifests itself in various ways. Older versions would
refuse to stack identical items. In more recent versions, this
appears to crash the game under certain circumstances. Ingots are a
commonly observed example and may have additional problems that
exacerbate the situation.

But it is, IMO, a fairly low-level problem in the code that may
require substantial effort to correct.
--
Andy Williams
ADOM Guidebook - http://www.andywlms.com/adom/
Mirror - http://users.rcn.com/andy.williams/adom/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Andy Williams wrote:
> The Wanderer wrote:
>
>
>>Twinge wrote:
>
>
>
>>>The Wanderer wrote:
>
>
>>>>xhoch3 wrote:
>
>
>>>>>s
>>>>>p
>>>>>o
>>>>>i
>>>>>l
>>>>>e
>>>>>r
>
>
>>>>>s
>>>>>p
>>>>>a
>>>>>c
>>>>>e
>
>
>>>>>h
>>>>>e
>>>>>r
>>>>>e
>
>
>>>> IIRC, this is not unrelated to the ingot crash bug. It happens
>>>> sometimes based on what he drops; I think it's a matter of
>>>> having two separate stacks which should be combined into one
>>>> but for some reason weren't.
>
>
>>> He shouldn't ever be able to drop ignots of course, so this might
>>> be a broader bug than just ingots. This may also relate to the
>>> bug I have a saved game for where it crashes when I walk over
>>> stuff dropped by a werewolf lord.
>
>
>> He doesn't drop ingots, no - that's why I'm not sure it's related
>> to that. According to the best synthesis of all reports I've seen,
>> however, the bug is in fact related to what he drops, and more
>> specifically to there being present on a given square
>> simultaneously two stacks of the same item where the only
>> difference is that one is not identified; the crash appears to be
>> triggered when this discrepancy is in some way "noticed" by the
>> game, which presumably also happens when you step onto the square.
>
>
>> I forget whether or not it was ever determined what exactly, of the
>> things he drops, was causing the problem...
>
>
>
>> Eh. I'm less than ideally coherent tonight. The problem is not
>> inherent to ingots, no. It appeas to be a matter of conflicting
>> identification states being present in the same square (or in one's
>> inventory, I suppose), and for some reason the conflicting
>> situation is most readily generated in-game by ingots.
>
>
>
>> It had been previously noticed that some items would at times fail
>> to auto-identify even though an item of the same type had been
>> previously identified (glass amulets spring to mind, for me), but
>> prior to recent versions these did not crash the game; I'm not sure
>> that that mixup is related to the bug at hand, but it's close
>> enough that I felt it worth mentioning.
>
>
> This whole phenomenon, in what ever guise it takes, is related to the
> global stacking bug in ADOM that has been present for many years,
> dating back to at least Gamma 8, if not Gamma 6. I thought I had
> concrete examples of this in the guidebook, but I can't find them.
> In any case, it manifests itself in various ways. Older versions
> would refuse to stack identical items. In more recent versions, this
> appears to crash the game under certain circumstances. Ingots are a
> commonly observed example and may have additional problems that
> exacerbate the situation.
>
> But it is, IMO, a fairly low-level problem in the code that may
> require substantial effort to correct.

Identical items still don't always stack in 1.1.1... it's because of how
the data is stored. Different fields can effectively add up to the same
thing (and indeed appear identical in greater identify), but since the
items aren't exactly the same in their entirety they don't stack. I've
had as many as 5 stacks of rings of speed, for example. This in itself
doesn't cause any crashes though...

Do note that Vlad has made a patch that supposedly fixes the ignot crash
bug, so it can be done. If we could perhaps have Vlad tell us the
specifics (and if it affects other possible incarnations of this bug
like with Kelly)?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

bork bork bork The Wanderer bork 10:23:54 PM bork 1/13/2005 bork bork:

> Erik Piper wrote:

> > I think I'm most bothered by the labelling of [ueberjackals] as a bug.
I'd
> > say it's an issue, a problem, a misdesign, and an imbalance, but not a
> > bug.
>
> I dispute this on a matter of definition: if it's not an intended
> behaviour, and the effect is in any way negative (or maybe even without
> the latter caveat), then it's a bug.

Who says it wasn't an intended behavior? I'm sure the consequences were
unintended, but I severely doubt the behavior was unintended; it looks like a
behavior for which specific code was deliberately written.

> I'd note also that a misdesign, if not so low-level as
> to be a fundamental flaw in the program architecture (and maybe even if
> so), is a bug.

Unless I'm missing something here, this is a matter of opinion, and we'll
have to just stand and wave at each other from our opposite banks. In a
friendly way, of course. 🙂

Erik

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 16:58:32 -0700, Twinge <homelesspete@gmail.com> wrote:

> Malte Helmert wrote:
>> Twinge wrote:
>>
>>> Malte Helmert wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Other typos:
>>>>>
>>>>> "are mildlly annoyed by the destruction of %s" - possible message
>>>>> given for dying companion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Weshallavengeourbelovedchampionofsondandmusicandwillgetyou!" -
>>>>> sond instead of sound; this message is supposed to be given if you
>>>>> wish for the quickling bard after you've killed him. has anyone
>>>>> tried this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bugs #2376 and #3194, reported well over two years ago, the former by
>>>> yours truly. ;-) Let's not create more dupes.
>>>
>>>
>>> They aren't dupes if Thomas doesn't know about them 😛 I personally
>>> have
>>> next to no faith that the bug database has really been looked at enough
>>> that TB even knows about stuff like this. Obviously we're already
>>> listing Skilled and Berferking, and those have been duped about 1000
>>> times eachin the bdb...
>> Berferking is listed because it is an important issue for many people
>> in this group. (Whether or not the "skilled" talent is important is
>> debatable, but this is a separate issue.) I may say with some
>> confidence that typos in messages that are never generated are an issue
>> which is considerably less dear to the heart of the average ADOM
>> player. As the subject says, we are collecting a "list of most
>> important bugs". For "not important" bugs, there is still the bug
>> database.
>> Lack of confidence in TB's handling of the bug database is not a
>> sufficient reason for pestering him with *another* large document
>> listing a thousand bugs for the second time. Unless someone took great
>> care that no bug from the database were omitted from the list, we would
>> only create a second bug database with gigantic overlap but enough
>> differences to require Thomas to go through *both* lists if he wants to
>> be sure that all bugs are squashed. This serves no purpose whatsoever,
>> and is a great waste of time for everyone involved.
>> Regarding the status of ADOM development and the bug database, here's
>> a relevant notice from www.adom.de:
>> "Preparing for Christmas time... (12/08/2004, 12:35)
>> Holiday secured... check. Bug / RFE list updated... check. Time
>> secured for ADOM programming... check. Ok, looks like a fun time
>> ahead... looking forward for the next version... 4000 RFEs / bugs to be
>> skimmed... interesting 🙂"
>> In the past, Thomas has normally gone through the bugs in the database
>> just before a release, and rarely made any comments/changes at other
>> times. The situation now does not appear special to me.
>
> Fair enough. I haven't been playing ADOM that long (1.1.1 was already
> released when I started) so I don't know these things, just going off of
> what I've seen. The bug database just seemed like such a mess that it
> was practically ignored, but perhaps this is not the case after all.
> It's hard to say for sure, of course.
>
> So I guess what you think we should have on this list are either bugs
> that are important and significant (even if mentioned 1000 times), or if
> they're insignificant they shouldn't have been mentioned in the bug
> database yet at all? 😉 That works I suppose.

So just tell me if something is too insignificant.

I don't think typos are really some kind of bugs, at least as long as you
understand what is meant anyway. So I won't put any on the list (there are
enough of my typos already), unless a typo is really incomprehensible.

If the list gets too long, then nobody will read it anymore, that's just
as bad as having to few bugs on it. And I don't think we should start a
full list without TB telling us we should, he may decides not to look at
ours at all.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Varkoill
<postersname@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:
>
>> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
>> >
>> > Bugs:
>> >
>> [snip]
>
> FWIW: Probably the bug report number #4272 about the uberjackal effect is
> worth mentioning. http://www.adom.de/adom/report.php3?ident=4272
>
>> >
>> > * Bug with molochs wearing moloch armor
>> >
>> What's the bug here? Could somebody explain to me why a moloch shouldn't
>> wear moloch armor? I guess it's a severe game balance?
>
> Sorry for not saying what I mean... But others have already explained it.
>
It's just that I'm not so long in this newsgroup, so I didn't know.
>> >
>> > * 1 xp for cat lord after killing 300 cats
>> >
>> > * There is a bug that causes a recoverable crash with message
>> > "Invalid target in GetTargetData." on each turn
>> > (about 20 reports on www.adom.de; supposedly it's related to near
>> > death berserking of allies, and it stops when PC leaves the level)
>> >
>> Where did you get the information from that it has something to do with
>> berserking of allies?
>
> It's my guess... based on these reports and my own experience. But it
> does not have to be accurate.
>
>> >
>> > * rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)
>> >
>> RFE.
>
> Why? It's either a bug or not a well-thought feature. I think it
> qualifies
> as a bug.
>

Well, there was an answer to your entry in the bdb telling you why:
You have to save every lawful being in order to be a true Paragon of
order, the God of Law won't accept anything else. I know it's a bit
annoying, but I think this is some kind of challenge game for skilled
players who think adom is to easy.
I don't how the rest is thinking about this.

>> >
>> > * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
>> > reported 7 times on www.adom.de
>> >
>> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?
>
> Talent list (in game).
>
Now that confuses me. Why did you say "I don't know why, but it has been
reported 7 times". That left me with the impression that this was a bug
you never encounter.
>> >
>> >
>> > Exploits - nice if fixed, but honest players can also just say that
>> > they won't use them:
>> >
> [snip]
>> > * unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name
>> >
>> Well, it's kind of the same with all unIDed equipment. I commonly use
>> this
>> so I know whether the ration I picked up is cursed or not, I just buy an
>> uncursed and a blessed one in a shop (the price is different) and
>> everytime I pick a new one up, I look to which it is added, thus I know
>> whether it is b/u/c. This may be considered as bug, but it was there
>> from
>> the beginning and I don't think TB will ever change it. I will mention
>> it.
>
> It's a bit different thing than the one you mention... And probably
> easier
> to fix.
>
You are right, I just wanted to show that there are lots of examples for
sorting of unIDed items.
>
> [snip]
>> >
>> > * look command can detect webs
>> >
>> Huh? Why should it be impossible to look at webs?
>
> Sorry again... If you have explored the whole level, and then you hear
> that a spider has placed a web, you can move the "look" cursor over the
> whole level, and it will inform about this web when it is placed on it.
>
> (Probably not worth it to add to the most severe bug list.)
>
Now I see what you mean.
>
> As for RFEs:
>
> Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas implemented
> a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example: create temporary
> files that the game can merge into a savefile; these files could be
> created when changing location, or each 1000 turns)
>
That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that people will
start killing the adom-process everytime something horrible happens, so
they can reload the old savefiles.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Varkoill
> <postersname@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> As for RFEs:
>>
>> Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas
>> implemented a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example:
>> create temporary files that the game can merge into a savefile;
>> these files could be created when changing location, or each 1000
>> turns)
>>
> That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that people
> will start killing the adom-process everytime something horrible
> happens, so they can reload the old savefiles.

People can already save-scum as much as they want; if they want to use
it to cheat, we don't really need to stop them. The important thing is
that regular characters can be saved from these crashes and the game can
be continued; you might just have to completely lose what caused the
crash to prevent it from happening again, but it'd be better than a lost
character certainly. (This is basically a backup plan or something to
try and implement if a crash bug cannot be realistically fixed for some
reason.)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> Malte Helmert wrote:
>
>> In the past, Thomas has normally gone through the bugs in the database
>> just before a release, and rarely made any comments/changes at other
>> times. The situation now does not appear special to me.
>
> Fair enough. I haven't been playing ADOM that long (1.1.1 was already
> released when I started) so I don't know these things, just going off of
> what I've seen. The bug database just seemed like such a mess that it
> was practically ignored, but perhaps this is not the case after all.
> It's hard to say for sure, of course.

It's been like that for the last few versions at least. When Thomas made
changes to the database, he made it by dealing with several hundred bugs
at a time.

> So I guess what you think we should have on this list are either bugs
> that are important and significant (even if mentioned 1000 times), or if
> they're insignificant they shouldn't have been mentioned in the bug
> database yet at all? 😉 That works I suppose.

I guess no bug is too insignificant to be reported at all, but in my
opinion this particular list should be reserved for "pressing issues".
For reporting less significant bugs, the normal rules from the
r.g.r.adom FAQ should apply.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
>
> Identical items still don't always stack in 1.1.1... it's because of how
> the data is stored. Different fields can effectively add up to the same
> thing (and indeed appear identical in greater identify), but since the
> items aren't exactly the same in their entirety they don't stack. I've
> had as many as 5 stacks of rings of speed, for example. This in itself
> doesn't cause any crashes though...
>
> Do note that Vlad has made a patch that supposedly fixes the ignot crash
> bug, so it can be done. If we could perhaps have Vlad tell us the
> specifics (and if it affects other possible incarnations of this bug
> like with Kelly)?

There is a detailed explanation of what Vladimir's patch does here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.adom/msg/cd40b1ad4de350c2

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3 wrote:
>
>> As for RFEs:
>>
>> Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas implemented
>> a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example: create temporary
>> files that the game can merge into a savefile; these files could be
>> created when changing location, or each 1000 turns)
>>
> That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that people
> will start killing the adom-process everytime something horrible
> happens, so they can reload the old savefiles.

That's a worthwhile price to pay, I'd say. Who wants to cheat gets to
cheat; don't worry about them to much.

In any case, I'm 99% sure this has been RFE'd before. It has certainly
come up in discussion here quite a few times.

Malte

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:

> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Varkoill
> <postersname@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:
> >
> >> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
> >> >
> >> > Bugs:
> >> >
[snip]
> >> >
> >> > * rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)
> >> >
> >> RFE.
> >
> > Why? It's either a bug or not a well-thought feature. I think it
> > qualifies
> > as a bug.
> >
>
> Well, there was an answer to your entry in the bdb telling you why:
> You have to save every lawful being in order to be a true Paragon of
> order, the God of Law won't accept anything else. I know it's a bit
> annoying, but I think this is some kind of challenge game for skilled
> players who think adom is to easy.
> I don't how the rest is thinking about this.

A challenge is nice indeed, except that (AFAIK) there is no hint that
you have failed when a blink dog has died without reason and without
your knowledge. (You don't know it died, you don't know that it means
failure.)

>
> >> >
> >> > * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has been
> >> > reported 7 times on www.adom.de
> >> >
> >> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?
> >
> > Talent list (in game).
> >
> Now that confuses me. Why did you say "I don't know why, but it has been
> reported 7 times". That left me with the impression that this was a bug
> you never encounter.

I don't understand... I just meant that I am surprised that 7 people
have found this and were so much annoyed (or proud of themselves) that
they have entered it into bdb.

> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Exploits - nice if fixed, but honest players can also just say that
> >> > they won't use them:
> >> >
> > [snip]
> >> > * unidentified books sorted alphabetically by spell name
> >> >
> >> Well, it's kind of the same with all unIDed equipment. I commonly use
> >> this
> >> so I know whether the ration I picked up is cursed or not, I just buy an
> >> uncursed and a blessed one in a shop (the price is different) and
> >> everytime I pick a new one up, I look to which it is added, thus I know
> >> whether it is b/u/c. This may be considered as bug, but it was there
> >> from
> >> the beginning and I don't think TB will ever change it. I will mention
> >> it.

I think Thomas has deliberately designed it like this (i.e. you know
that things are different because they don't merge) --- there are ways
to avoid it, but this issue is not important enough. I would not send it
to Thomas on a top bug list.

[snip]
> >
> > As for RFEs:
> >
> > Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas implemented
> > a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example: create temporary
> > files that the game can merge into a savefile; these files could be
> > created when changing location, or each 1000 turns)
> >
> That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that people will
> start killing the adom-process everytime something horrible happens, so
> they can reload the old savefiles.
>

They can cheat anyway. (I know it's not an original idea --- it's one
that I think we miss the most... maybe ratling as PC race is missed too.)

One more thing that AFAIK is regarded as a bug, and has a big enough
effect on gameplay:

The Game Of Life doesn't work with herbs created with holy water on a
level without herbs (only with ones created with seeds).

 

[MadDog]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:
> Fairly minor spoilers as is inevitable of bug reports =)
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
>
>
> xhoch3 wrote:
>> On Fri Varkoill wrote:
[SNIP]
>>> One more thing that AFAIK is regarded as a bug, and
>>> has a big enough effect on gameplay:
>>>
>>> The Game Of Life doesn't work with herbs created with
>>> holy water on a level without herbs (only with ones
>>> created with seeds).
>>>
>> I will add it.
>
> Indeed; I had no idea using gardening could make a level
> an herb level, but sure enough:
>
> push lfHerbs
> call SetCurLevelFlag
>
> This should be another easy 1 or 2 line fix. Something
> like "The level flag that indicates a level has herbs on
> it is not set when you create an herb bush with a potion
> of holy water like it is when you apply gardening."
>
> Holy water = 1/3 chance for herb bush, btw.
>
>
>
> There's a really interesting/funny sub that takes your
> equipment and scatters it randomly across the level...
> unfortunately, both things that call it seem to be
> bugged :/
> There is a check when you the papyrus scroll is to be
> generated and when the rune trident is delivered... a 1
> in 500 chance for this scatter effect -- except some
> weird variable has to be 1 and I don't _think_ it ever
> can be. The other check is when you're drinking from a
> pool, one of the effects checks if you have an intrinsc
> that doesn't exsist, so your stuff can't be scattered
> there either.
>
> Probably not worth mentioning I suppose, but it's such
> an entertaining and random thing that it's a shame
> nothing can activate it 😉

I don't think this is a bug. You need Gardening to prepare
the thin layer of soil so it can bear herbs for a
prolonged time and as such it is easier to simply have the
character use at least one seed to start GoL.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Fri Varkoill wrote:

> xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Varkoill
>> <postersname@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:
>> >
>> >> On Thu Varkoill wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I'll post a Top Bug List and a Top Exploit List too!
>> >> >
>> >> > Bugs:
>> >> >
> [snip]
>> >> >
>> >> > * rethink the requirements for the Platinum Girdle... (#4856)
>> >> >
>> >> RFE.
>> >
>> > Why? It's either a bug or not a well-thought feature. I think it
>> > qualifies
>> > as a bug.
>> >
>>
>> Well, there was an answer to your entry in the bdb telling you why:
>> You have to save every lawful being in order to be a true Paragon of
>> order, the God of Law won't accept anything else. I know it's a bit
>> annoying, but I think this is some kind of challenge game for skilled
>> players who think adom is to easy.
>> I don't how the rest is thinking about this.
>
> A challenge is nice indeed, except that (AFAIK) there is no hint that
> you have failed when a blink dog has died without reason and without
> your knowledge. (You don't know it died, you don't know that it means
> failure.)
>
I don't want to decide this, so unless some others think it should be
mentioned I will leave it.
>>
>> >> >
>> >> > * typo: "affinity with polemarms", I don't know why, but it has
>> been
>> >> > reported 7 times on www.adom.de
>> >> >
>> >> Is there anybody who knows where this typo is?
>> >
>> > Talent list (in game).
>> >
>> Now that confuses me. Why did you say "I don't know why, but it has been
>> reported 7 times". That left me with the impression that this was a bug
>> you never encounter.
>
> I don't understand... I just meant that I am surprised that 7 people
> have found this and were so much annoyed (or proud of themselves) that
> they have entered it into bdb.
>
I thought you said you don't understand why it was posted seven times,
because you had never seen this bug. I certainly hadn't. But that's just
because I never read the whole word, just the beginning and the end.

> [snip]
>> >
>> > As for RFEs:
>> >
>> > Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas implemented
>> > a way to recover a game after a crash. (For example: create temporary
>> > files that the game can merge into a savefile; these files could be
>> > created when changing location, or each 1000 turns)
>> >
>> That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that people
>> will
>> start killing the adom-process everytime something horrible happens, so
>> they can reload the old savefiles.
>>
>
> They can cheat anyway. (I know it's not an original idea --- it's one
> that I think we miss the most... maybe ratling as PC race is missed too.)
>
I guess TB has thought about such a feature as well, so I wondered why he
hadn't implemented it already and that was the only reason that came to my
mind. As I said, I agree completely with you that this is a great idea.
>
> One more thing that AFAIK is regarded as a bug, and has a big enough
> effect on gameplay:
>
> The Game Of Life doesn't work with herbs created with holy water on a
> level without herbs (only with ones created with seeds).
>
I will add it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Fairly minor spoilers as is inevitable of bug reports =)

..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..



xhoch3 wrote:
> On Fri Varkoill wrote:
>
>> xhoch3's mouth appears on the wall and says:
>>
>>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:24:08 +0000 (UTC), Varkoill
>>> <postersname@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Well, there was an answer to
>>> your entry in the bdb telling you why: You have to save every
>>> lawful being in order to be a true Paragon of order, the God of
>>> Law won't accept anything else. I know it's a bit annoying, but I
>>> think this is some kind of challenge game for skilled players who
>>> think adom is to easy. I don't how the rest is thinking about
>>> this.
>>
>>
>> A challenge is nice indeed, except that (AFAIK) there is no hint
>> that you have failed when a blink dog has died without reason and
>> without your knowledge. (You don't know it died, you don't know
>> that it means failure.)
>>
> I don't want to decide this, so unless some others think it should be
> mentioned I will leave it.

Personally I think it's ridiculous, but it's not a bug and will stay how
it is. It is possible to get it, just insane 😛

>>> Now that confuses me. Why did you say "I don't know why, but it
>>> has been reported 7 times". That left me with the impression that
>>> this was a bug you never encounter.
>>
>>
>> I don't understand... I just meant that I am surprised that 7
>> people have found this and were so much annoyed (or proud of
>> themselves) that they have entered it into bdb.
>>
> I thought you said you don't understand why it was posted seven
> times, because you had never seen this bug. I certainly hadn't. But
> that's just because I never read the whole word, just the beginning
> and the end.

Typos are so minor that I also don't want to mention them, but on the
other hand they are so easy to fix they should be mentioned... Let's
kind of go with what Malte said (or that I rephrased from him, anyway)
and only list stuff that minor if it's never been reported in the bug
database before. (This one obviously has.)

>> [snip]
>>
>>>>
>>>> As for RFEs:
>>>>
>>>> Many crash bugs would have their effect reduced if Thomas
>>>> implemented a way to recover a game after a crash. (For
>>>> example: create temporary files that the game can merge into a
>>>> savefile; these files could be created when changing location,
>>>> or each 1000 turns)
>>>>
>>> That certainly is a good idea, there is just the problem that
>>> people will start killing the adom-process everytime something
>>> horrible happens, so they can reload the old savefiles.
>>>
>>
>> They can cheat anyway. (I know it's not an original idea --- it's
>> one that I think we miss the most... maybe ratling as PC race is
>> missed too.)
>>
> I guess TB has thought about such a feature as well, so I wondered
> why he hadn't implemented it already and that was the only reason
> that came to my mind. As I said, I agree completely with you that
> this is a great idea.

Probably difficult to add for some reason, dunno. Would be very nice.

>>
>> One more thing that AFAIK is regarded as a bug, and has a big
>> enough effect on gameplay:
>>
>> The Game Of Life doesn't work with herbs created with holy water on
>> a level without herbs (only with ones created with seeds).
>>
> I will add it.

Indeed; I had no idea using gardening could make a level an herb level,
but sure enough:

push lfHerbs
call SetCurLevelFlag

This should be another easy 1 or 2 line fix. Something like "The level
flag that indicates a level has herbs on it is not set when you create
an herb bush with a potion of holy water like it is when you apply
gardening."

Holy water = 1/3 chance for herb bush, btw.



There's a really interesting/funny sub that takes your equipment and
scatters it randomly across the level... unfortunately, both things that
call it seem to be bugged :/
There is a check when you the papyrus scroll is to be generated and when
the rune trident is delivered... a 1 in 500 chance for this scatter
effect -- except some weird variable has to be 1 and I don't _think_ it
ever can be. The other check is when you're drinking from a pool, one of
the effects checks if you have an intrinsc that doesn't exsist, so your
stuff can't be scattered there either.

Probably not worth mentioning I suppose, but it's such an entertaining
and random thing that it's a shame nothing can activate it 😉

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 02:25:00 -0700, Twinge wrote:

> Fairly minor spoilers as is inevitable of bug reports =)
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

b
e
l
o
w
>
>
>
> Holy water = 1/3 chance for herb bush, btw.


The guidebook currently says "about 50%."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.adom (More info?)

Twinge wrote:

> Fairly minor spoilers as is inevitable of bug reports =)
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .

> There's a really interesting/funny sub that takes your equipment and
> scatters it randomly across the level... unfortunately, both things
> that call it seem to be bugged :/
> There is a check when you the papyrus scroll is to be generated and
> when the rune trident is delivered... a 1 in 500 chance for this
> scatter effect -- except some weird variable has to be 1 and I don't
> _think_ it ever can be. The other check is when you're drinking from
> a pool, one of the effects checks if you have an intrinsc that
> doesn't exsist, so your stuff can't be scattered there either.
>
> Probably not worth mentioning I suppose, but it's such an
> entertaining and random thing that it's a shame nothing can activate
> it 😉

I've seen an effect like this mentioned in an ADoM context before, but
only in one place: allegedly, such a scattering will happen at random
every now and then to someone who has run out of luck.

Is it possible that either of the criteria you've noted could be the
case in that Absolutely Impossible mode?

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.