Question Long Boot Time with ASUS TUF Z790-PLUS WiFi motherboard ?

[SOMEComputing]

I recently put together a system with the following components:

Motherboard: ASUS TUF Gaming Z790-PLUS WiFi
CPU: Intel I9-13900K
GPU: Nvidia Quadro P4000
Memory: Kingston DDR5 KF552C40BBK2-64 (2x32) -- meets ASUS compatibility
System is on a Crucial 1 TB M.2 SSD (in slot 2) with a 2TB Crucial M.2 SSD in slot 3
Windows 11 Installed.

Here's the problem. Each time I start or restart the system either physically through the power button or via Windows, the system goes through about 4 minutes checking the memory. This has happened on two different brands of memory (same configuration). The memory is in the correct slots according to the motherboard manual and I've actually checked this using one or two sticks of memory in various slots with the same results.

I surmise it is a memory issue because the LED lights go from a quick microsecond flash on the red LED (CPU) and then stays on the yellow-looks orange to me--LED for at least a minute, then reboots the system, and does it again, over and over until after about 4 minutes the white and then the green LEDs flash very briefly and the system boots. However, the system always boots into the AMIBIOS error page where I have to press F1 to get into the BIOS. If I do anything in the BIOS and save, it goes through this again. If I simply go to the boot menu and choose the Windows boot it boots into Windows 11 no problem. Also, boots into Windows 11 if I simply hit the discard and exit. Once in Windows 11 the system is very stable, so I know that the various components are working fine, except at boot.

The BIOS is set to optimized defaults with fast boot enabled (and AC power loss set to fast boot as well). I've played around with all sorts of BIOS settings even disabling every setting with "Training" in it's title and using the automatic overclocking settings, but nothing seems to change this problem.

I'm caught in a email exchange (one or two days between emails) with ASUS support, but they seem to be scratching there heads about it.

Any insight, suggestions, or just commiserations would be appreciated.

 

[helpstar]

update the BIOS of the motherboard

reset the BIOS/CMOS by jumper

 

[SOMEComputing]

Thanks for your response. The bios is up-to-date. I flashed it myself to make sure and its number matches the latest bios on the ASUS site. I have reset the BIOS/CMOS via jumper three or four times then each time set the BIOS back to optimized defaults, then made sure that the fast boot settings were set in the Boot section of the BIOS.

 

[angry.pidgeon]

That is certainly abnormal. Chance has it that I'm most probably going to buy exactly that motherboard, and perhaps same type of memory

Build Advice - Please check my gaming build before I buy the parts.

Hello. This is my almost finished list to buy after some research, please advise as needed. The build idea is proportional scaling of price and performance (from my old PC: I7 3930K, GTX 690, 16GB) with no other budget restriction. The scale however is a bit of a rule of thumb e.g. RTX 4070 ti...

forums.tomshardware.com

Logically, if it's not a memory problem, then there's a motherboard problem, or even CPU. Maybe it's a feature of overclocking, but never had that happening

In my current system I'm too lazy to replace the dead CMOS battery, and at every PC start to boot into Windows, I have to go into BIOS and set it to turbo settings (or whichever settings). Afterwards it turns off for a few seconds, reboots then simply flies directly into Windows 7 without checking anything. But it's a P9x79...

 

[SOMEComputing]

Chance has it that I'm most probably going to buy exactly that motherboard, and perhaps same type of memory

Not that it helped me, and you may have already done this, but you should check the ASUS QVL list for compatible components: ASUS TUF Gaming Z790-Plus WiFi QVL.

Logically, if it's not a memory problem, then there's a motherboard problem, or even CPU. Maybe it's a feature of overclocking, but never had that happening

The computer operates perfectly except at boot time, so I don't think there is anything wrong with any of the individual components. The CPU and memory are on the ASUS QVL list.

So, I also think the motherboard is suspect, and I've had multiple email exchanges with ASUS support regarding it. I think all they are going to want to to is RMA the motherboard. I doubt that they will use the same components, so they might just say there is nothing wrong and send it back. They might send me a new motherboard, but I really don't want to wait six weeks or more with shipping, testing, return, etc. Judging by their delays in getting to my emails, I can just imagine waiting three or four months. That's not going to happen. I'm considering buying a completely different brand of motherboard that my components are compatible with and returning this one. That would be basically no delay at all.

Incidentally, I'm actually on my second identical motherboard, but I sent the first one back after I thought it was not booting up (note: I was using memory that was not on the compatibility list). I suspect now that that first motherboard was having the same identical issue and I was just not waiting long enough for it to boot.

I also think that there is just some quirky setting like voltage or frequency that would set this whole problem straight. I just don't know what it is. I had a motherboard a few years back that was acting strange and all I had to do was bump up the voltage (can't remember for CPU or memory) and everything operated fine.

 

[angry.pidgeon]

The i9 is close to the Extreme Edition. I googled whether checking memory is a feature but found nothing

In older computers memory was tested at every boot and displayed in a rising percentage, only I didn't have Gigabytes of it but merely hundreds of Megabytes, so it didn't take that long

Here's what my exploration found:

1. memory with ECC always performs a check at boot

When did computers stop checking memory on boot?

I remember my old 8088 used to do this (640K OK) but can't remember seeing anything like this since. Does this still happen and it's just not visible? If not, when did it stop, and why? (Imaginin...

retrocomputing.stackexchange.com

2.
How do I stop my startup memory test?

From the System Utilities screen, select System Configuration > BIOS/Platform Configuration (RBSU) > System Options > Boot Time Optimizations > Extended Memory Test and press Enter.

(I see you already did)
3. I just enabled fast boot to get rid of it.

[Resolved] Memory Test On Every Boot?

Mines does this too, but my clock runs fine I just enabled fast boot to get rid of it.

community.frame.work

Googled: memory checked at every boot

then googled: stop memory check at every boot

(I see you already did)
4. Have a look in the bios settings, probably advanced settings. Look for something like 'enable quick boot'. It will then bypass many of the checks.

How do I disable memory test on startup?

When ever I turn on my computer before it hits the windows 7 screen its like the black screen or the motherboard loading screen and its like press del for setup and stuff. On that screen it always "tests my memory" and it says press esc to skip. This is very annoying and I want to disable it.

forums.tomshardware.com

God help us with computers haha. Every time we make something we shoot ourselves in the foot

 

[SOMEComputing]

@angry.pidgeon I'll take a look at the information you have provided. I know that all the boot settings that are possible to set are set on "Fast Boot," but I'll have another look for a setting that allows the system to bypass the memory check. I'm not sure there is one.

I wouldn't mind if it took 4 minutes to check the memory, but then it should boot into the operating system. Mine always ends up at the AMIBIOS safe POST error screen where I have to press F1 and then either select the operating system and boot or select the Discard Changes and Exit. Then it boots into the operating system.

God help us with computers haha. Every time we make something we shoot ourselves in the foot

I guess I have to agree with you there. The last time I built a computer, maybe five or six years ago, it was plug in the components and go. This computer, which I'm still running as a spare, has 32 Gb of memory and takes no time at all to boot. It is an ASUS Z79. The BIOS looks fairly similar to the ASUS Z790 except they've added some more tweaking settings.

 

[SOMEComputing]

Update: PROBLEM SOLVED!
Issue recap: system startup went through 7 full memory checks (lasting 4 to 5 minutes altogether) before arriving at an AMIBIOS error page stating that the system was in a safe mode POST and that pressing F1 was required. Upon pressing F1 the system arrived at the BIOS. From there I could either exit without saving or specifically select the Windows 11 boot option and the system booted into Windows 11 and remained working just fine until I had to restart the system.
Here's what fixed the problem: I was pondering the Easy Mode screen after a (FAILED) test to see if the PSU was the issue by hooking the system up to a new, perhaps better, PSU. I noticed that the memory frequency was being reported at two difference frequencies 4800 MHz and 4000 MHz. I had mentioned this discrepancy to one of the many ASUS support people I chatted with online when I first encountered the problem. However, they dismissed this discrepancy, stating that the system will set and report different frequencies and not to worry about that. So I dismissed the idea; although, I kept thinking that some little tweak would fix this whole mess.

So, for kicks and giggles, I changed the DRAM Frequency to 4000 MHz from "auto" and: Voila! Problem solved!

Please note: this particular motherboard is not capable of being overclocked. I cannot say if other specific motherboards of the same make and model can be overclocked as boasted about by ASUS. The only thing that works is setting the BIOS to optimized defaults and manually setting the DRAM frequency to 4000 MHz. I wasn't planning on overclocking anyway, but when the memory is rated for 4800 MHz or even 5200 MHz, having to set it at 4000 MHz is kind of under-clocking. But it is way, way faster than my old computer that I built in June, 2015. Anyway, I'm glad to have a functioning system that boots into the operating system when started up, restarted, etc. Now I can get on with some actual computing.

Bottom line is: I'm not impressed. ASUS's technical support people seem to not have a clue. I will likely never buy another ASUS product again.

The system:
motherboard: ASUS Tuf Gaming Z790-PLUS Wifi
CPU: Intel i9-13900K
Memory: Kingston KF552C40BBK2-64 (2x32) DDR5 @ 4000MHz
GPU: Nvidia Quadro P4000

 

[angry.pidgeon]

If your RAM stick code is on the QVL (compatibility) list, and it mentions XMP, then then the motherboard can overclock it surely, else it's false advertising and you should return it or change it for another. It works on my p9x79 motherboard, and I expect it to work on this one as well

On p9x79 XMP automagically OCed my DD3 1333 to 1650 (18xx tops), a 26% OC

I've bought Kingston 2x32 DDR5 5600

Yea, ASUS's support sounds disappointing

 

[helpstar]

did you try a xmp profile?
loading optimized settings could have been the culprit as well, reset the BIOS and don´t load the optimized settings

any bend or discolored pins of the motherboard´s CPU socket?

check the memory by running memtest.org usb autoinstaller (bootable USB flash drive)

to have a look if there are other problems:
run userbenchmark.com and post the http link of your result, e.g. https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/28977730

 

[Misgar]

This is clutching at straws, but do you have hiberfil (hibernation) enabled in Windows? If so and you've got fast shutdown enabled, Windows will save its configuration settings in the hibernation file on the C: drive, to make startups faster.

This is fine when you've only got one bootable drive in your system, but I keep a copy of Windows on a second SSD, in case the master NVMe drive stops booting. Enabling 'fast shutdown' causes CHKDSK errors on all drives, when I switch to another boot drive and back again. To fix this I disable Windows fast shutdown and disable hiberfi.sys.

This may have nothing to do with your extended memory training times, which I thought were more common with AMD processors. My 7950X sometimes pauses for 30 seconds when starting up before the BIOS splash screen appears, but it certainly doesn't hang for 4 minutes.

My RAM is running at the stock (default) DDR5 speed of 4,800MHz in SPD, which is what I'd expect your i9-13900K to start up with. I have only one XMP setting in my RAM and bizarrely it's the same speed as the non-XMP setting, i.e. 4800MHz.

As you say, running your RAM at 4,000MHz is underclocking what I consider to be normal, i.e. 4,800MHz. Does your motherboard manual suggest fitting two DIMMs in specific sockets if your mobo has 4 slots? Are your DIMMs in the recommended slots?

I treat all XMP settings with caution, especially with DDR5 when all 4 DIMMs slots are filled. You might get 6,000MHz with two DIMMs but "only" 4800MHz with 4 DIMMs. In your case though you only have 2 DIMMs. Perhaps you have a very fussy mobo.

Some DIMMs come with a bunch of different timings for identical clock speeds especially in XMP, where you get several different primary Tcl clock rates at the same clock speed. From this I infer that relaxing (loosening) some of the primary timings, may improve stability.

If you have the heart to continue experimenting, try setting the memory back to 4800MHz, but manually set CL41-40-40 instead of CL40-39-39 @1.1V. You could also try improving stability by manually increasing the RAM voltage from 1.1V (JEDEC) to 1.25V (XMP).

Of course if your applications don't benefit much from faster memory, leave well alone and stay at 4000MHz.

https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KF552C40BBK2-64.pdf

Best of luck.

 

[SOMEComputing]

I never enable hybernation on a desktop. Plus, the problem is with the BIOS and memory, not with the Windows 11 operating system. This was going on before I even installed an operating system.

With the DRAM frequency set at 4000 Mhz, the Windows 11 system is perfectly stable, restarts fine, Actually, even with the problem, once I was able to boot up (after entering BIOS from F1 and specifically booting to my Windows installation, the system was perfectly stable as well. I suppose, if I really wanted to, I could overclock the heck out of this system and just put up with the 4 minute memory test recursive behavior at the start (although, I suspect that the iterations are the system testing various memory settings before it finds one that works).

If you have the heart to continue experimenting, try setting the memory back to 4800MHz, but manually set CL41-40-40 instead of CL40-39-39 @1.1V. You could also try improving stability by manually increasing the RAM voltage from 1.1V (JEDEC) to 1.25V (XMP).

I will give that a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[SOMEComputing]

did you try a xmp profile?
loading optimized settings could have been the culprit as well, reset the BIOS and don´t load the optimized settings

any bend or discolored pins of the motherboard´s CPU socket?

check the memory by running memtest.org usb autoinstaller (bootable USB flash drive)

to have a look if there are other problems:
run userbenchmark.com and post the http link of your result, e.g. https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/28977730

When I reset the BIOS (couple of times, actually), it basically defaulted to the Optimized Defaults anyway. The CPU operates perfectly, memory and CPU passed PassMark MemTest86 with flying colors and the system is totally stable. It just has this hiccup when booting.

Nice Benchmark Tool. Here are the results (Note: I don't expect the GPU to be fantastic):

UserBenchmarks: Game 93%, Desk 123%, Work 121%
CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K - 125.9%
GPU: Nvidia Quadro P4000 - 69.7%
SSD: Crucial P5 Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 376.9%
SSD: Crucial P5 Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 2TB - 444.5%
RAM: Kingston KF552C40-32 2x31.5GB - 142.4%
MBD: Asus TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI

 

[helpstar]

please post the link of your userbenchmark result

 

[Misgar]

I only have one system with DDR5 memory and most of the time it boots up quite fast, with the opening Asus splash screen (logo) appearing after 15 seconds. Sometimes it takes up to 45 seconds before the monitor wakes up.

The first time I started the new 7950X build, DDR5 training took several minutes. My RAM only has two settings in SPD, both at 4800MHz, one standard, one XMP. I'm using stock RAM timings, not XMP and I'm not overclocking the CPU either.

I had slight concerns when choosing memory because there are fewer kits qualified for AMD than for Intel. The programs I run don't benefit from 6,000MHz so I bought cheaper 4,800MHz RAM last November.

Your RAM / BIOS combination seems slightly less stable than mine, but I assume you're running the latest BIOS?

I guessing new RAM is not a viable option, but loosening your current Primary timings might allow you to run faster than 4,000MHz.

I'm guessing your current memory timings (Primary, Seconday and Tertiary) are derived from the 4,800MHz settings in SPD, even though you've changed to clock rate to 4,000MHz.

Alternatively, since you've downclocked the RAM to 4,000MHz, you could tighten the Primary timings one or two increments to gain a bit more speed and leave the RAM at 4,000MHz.

It all depends how much time you want to waste for very little gain in most applications. I doubt you're losing more than a few percent performance running at 4,000MHz.

 

[SOMEComputing]

please post the link of your userbenchmark result

Those are my benchmark results. What more do you want?

UserBenchmarks: Game 93%, Desk 123%, Work 121%
CPU: Intel Core i9-13900K - 125.9%
GPU: Nvidia Quadro P4000 - 69.7%
SSD: Crucial P5 Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 1TB - 376.9%
SSD: Crucial P5 Plus NVMe PCIe M.2 2TB - 444.5%
RAM: Kingston KF552C40-32 2x31.5GB - 142.4%
MBD: Asus TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI

 

[helpstar]

Like this

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

The result is not that important to me but the informations all around it. Like driver version
Dram clock, bios version,...

 

[SOMEComputing]

Like this

Please click the green human to continue - UserBenchmark

The result is not that important to me but the informations all around it. Like driver version
Dram clock, bios version,...

Okay, got it! Here is the link to my results:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/62350012

 

[Bob.B]

Okay, got it! Here is the link to my results:
https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/62350012

Is this ram a 2 stick kit or did you buy 2 separate sticks?

 

[helpstar]

latest BIOS version is Version 1030, please update
also update the Intel ME firmware

TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI is an Intel® Z790 (LGA 1700) ATX Gaming motherboard with 16+1 DrMOS power stages, PCIe® 5.0, DDR5 RAM support, four M.2 slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C®, and Aura Sync RGB lighting.

www.asus.com

 

[SOMEComputing]

Is this ram a 2 stick kit or did you buy 2 separate sticks?

It's a 2 stick kit.

 

[SOMEComputing]

latest BIOS version is Version 1030, please update
also update the Intel ME firmware

TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

ASUS TUF GAMING Z790-PLUS WIFI is an Intel® Z790 (LGA 1700) ATX Gaming motherboard with 16+1 DrMOS power stages, PCIe® 5.0, DDR5 RAM support, four M.2 slots, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C®, and Aura Sync RGB lighting.

www.asus.com

The BIOS is updated. No change in behavior at bootup.

Does anyone know of a resource (URL, book) that explains what the various possible BIOS settings are for memory (or anything else for that matter) and what those do? I know the CAS of the memory, but the BIOS has a dozen or so settings related to CAS, many with the similar numbers to the CAS specs of my memory, but many with totally different numbers (some way lower and some way higher). None of the titles for the settings are the standard CAS setting names.

 

[helpstar]

The problem you encounter is either a compatibility problem or faulty hardware.

your Kingston DDR5 KF552C40BBK2-64 (2x32) should be @5200MHz @XMP, would try a warranty swap if only 4800 is available in BIOS under the XMP section

run minimum setup to exclude other hardware problems
one RAM in Dimm slot A2, PSU, CPU with cooler, motherboard, monitor plugged into the motherboard

check if CPU socket pins of the motherboard are bent or discolored

your CPU seems to not turbo boost to the max. frequency as well

Guide for manually setting up DDR5:

DDR5 Overclocking Guide: Make it Faster - Overclockers

Hoping to extract the most performance from your DDR5-based system? Check out this DDR5 overclocking guide to help tune your memory!

www.overclockers.com

 

[angry.pidgeon]

Here's a helpful quote from the manual. Also check page 1-5 (15 of 75) for correct install of sticks

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1700/TUF%20GAMING%20Z790-PLUS%20WIFI%20D4/E20581_TUF_GAMING_Z790-PLUS_WIFI_D4_UM_WEB_082622.pdf

* my old HyperX 4x4GB is installed also on every other slot (but further from the CPU!?), meaning I read the same in the old manual. Funny how P9X79 comes with 8 RAM slots on both sides of the CPU. Possibly superior design

Memory configurations
You may install 8 GB, 16GB, and 32 GB unbuffered and non-ECC DDR5 DIMMs into the
DIMM sockets.
You may install varying memory sizes in Channel A and Channel B. The system maps
the total size of the lower-sized channel for the dual-channel configuration. Any excess
memory from the higher-sized channel is then mapped for single-channel operation.
• The default memory operation frequency is dependent on its Serial Presence Detect
(SPD), which is the standard way of accessing information from a memory module.
Under the default state, some memory modules for overclocking may operate at a
lower frequency than the vendor-marked value.
• For system stability, use a more efficient memory cooling system to support a full
memory load or overclocking condition.
• Always install the DIMMs with the same CAS Latency. For an optimum compatibility,
we recommend that you install memory modules of the same version or data code
(D/C) from the same vendor. Check with the vendor to get the correct memory
modules.
• Visit the ASUS website for the latest QVL.

I remind I am installing same motherboard, with kingston ddr5 5600 2x16GB.
If I don't come back to post I had a problem with it, means I haven't, which means you got faulty hardware, most likely the motherboard since I recall you tested multiple RAM sticks

Hopefully I should be done within the week no, actually within the day I hope... but I also read while going along so...