[SOLVED] Looking for help building 3D software PC; 2.5k Budget

[thedhenzel]

Hello friends,

A friend of mine recommended me this site for getting optimal PC builds for whatever the need is. In our case we’re both concept artists in the games industry.

The reason I’m here is because my current PC is 5 years old and can’t run a browser + Photoshop for long without crapping itself. And I know next to nothing about building and assembling a PC. So here I am.

The main thing I’m looking for is for it to run ridiculously dense, high poly 3D software like Zbrush, 3D Coat or programs for cinematics like Blender, C4D, Redshift, Octane. Running VR programs like Gravity Sketch is also something I’m interested in.

As for some of the other specifications...

BUDGET Something around 2.5k - 3k and looking to buy this thing ASAP within the week or next month.

MONITOR?: Yes absolutely need a new one, two preferably. (Not sure if 4K is worth it for our line of work, but it sounds nice.

PERIPHIALS?: Looking for another mouse as well. Been using a Wacom tablet as a mouse for a year now.

ORDER FROM/TO? NCIX and Newegg are the only sites I currently know. Ordering from one place is preferable. Currently living in Toronto Canada.

OS/Intel/AMD Need a new OS as well. I’ve also been hearing not great things about intel recently, but I want to be able to run a nVidia card... so I’ve been assuming intel was the way to go. What do you think?


—

Also as a general question, what makes a PC upgradable, and when/what parts should you upgrade before the PC turns to mush and you need to build one from scratch?


Many thanks for the help and insight!

 

[thedhenzel]

Even though you are doing things OTHER than actually gaming, I expect you might do some of that as well, plus it might be necessary as a feature for what you do, but it would also be relevant to know whether or not this needs to be a Gsync display as well. I'm not sure it's a factor at all, and it does generally add expense to the cost of the monitor, but I figured I'd ask anyhow.

Talked to a few people, seems like IPS is the way to go. In general, I can probably throw 500 - 800$ at it for my main one. Not sure of that price point will land me a Gsync display, but it doesn't seem like having it would hurt. Seems like it would help smooth out the stuttering in the viewport.

One friend was saying that with the power supply in that build, I wouldn't be able to get a second graphics card. Not sure if the case can also handle two either. He's probably considering that a GPU renderer like Octane would become a tool in the future. But whether its not worth getting more power, I'll talk more with him but my thoughts were I'd like for this to be a build I could upgrade in the future. And if that's the case, he would spend a bit more for some better parts (didn't specify what)

 

[thedhenzel]

It sounds like they're doing game concept art, as in art that developers will base their final designs off of, rather than anything along the lines of programming or creating art assets that would need to be tested in-game. So I don't think something like a high refresh rate or G-Sync would be of much benefit to them. In any case, Nvidia finally enabled support for DisplayPort Adaptive Sync for their 10 and 20-series cards, so as long as a monitor supports FreeSync over the DP connection, adaptive sync should be available without paying extra for G-Sync.

Based on what it sounds like the system will be getting used for, I suspect an IPS panel would probably be best, as they tend to offer more accurate colors and viewing angles, and a higher resolution like 1440p or 2160p(4K) would allow for more detail to be visible without needing to zoom in on your art.

As for a mouse, it might be worth looking for something with more buttons, if you want to assign them to commands within the software. If you've been mostly using a Wacom tablet lately, then it's hard to say exactly what would be a good fit though.

What kind of storage do you need? You'll probably want a 500GB or 1TB SSD for your OS, applications and active projects, but do you think you'll need a big hard drive for lots of bulk storage? You'll probably want to back up your projects to a second drive to reduce the chances of data loss in the event of a drive failure, though I'm not sure how much storage you'll need. Unless you will be storing lots of video or other massive files, you might not need 4TB. More storage can always be added later.

You're right about not needing to program or create art assets in game, but I'm also going to be investing a lot more time into 3D work. Modelling, compositing, lighting, texturing etc. The immediate 1 - 2 year plan is to use more 3D as a concept art tool, which means not as heavy rendering, and eventually do much more heavy 3D. Whether or not that's relevant to Gsync, not sure. After talking to some people, IPS seems the way to go.

The 4TB in my case might be worth getting. My home PC's 1TB is filling up, constantly needing to clear, and my external TB is running low on room too.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The RX 2080 and 2080 TI support multi card configurations. The RX 2070 does not. If you think you will need to add another card later, then I'd suggest going with something from the 1000 series, like a 1070 TI or going higher, with a 2080, would be imperative. It might be necessary to look at the budget again. Any chance of making a trip to the states to order your hardware. Might cost you a hundred bucks to take a trip to the US, and save five hundred. LOL.

Actually, if you KNOW somebody in the US that you could order and ship the hardware to, that might actually be realistic if you're able to go pick it up and take it back home.

 

[Darkbreeze]

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3879830/rtx-2070s-rtx-2080-rendering-program-sli.html#21726868

 

[thedhenzel]

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3879830/rtx-2070s-rtx-2080-rendering-program-sli.html#21726868

Sigh... well I don't have friends nearby in the states. If any they're in Orange County. Either way, trips to NYC, Cali, Detroit, all about the same cost + AirBnB to ship to, which probably isn't that bad.
But I'd be willing to pay the tax [strike]because I love my country.[/strike] I'm fairly grounded on the 4k budget. Again, will need to pace how much I spend. 4.5k absolute max, tax included.

As for the thread, read it over a few times... is the consensus to go with two 2070's? The friend I was talking with invested in a 2080 with a Threadripper (I'm fine with the i9 since I'm not completely committed to cg work, I do plan on a bit of video editing as well) - he's using Blender as well. He probably plans to get another 2080 when Blender RTX support comes online + he's committed to using GPU renderers. Not sure how much better of a performance you get when using two 2070's vs two 2080's, but then again he's fairly certain with Octane or Redshift.

Ik it doesn't help being definite on the software I want to use - Blender is certainly a program I need to learn at this moment. However I don't plan on sticking to concept forever, hence all that other software I listed. When I start to deviate away from my initial three packages of Blender, Zbrush and 3D-Coat, I would lean towards picking up a GPU renderer like Octane/Redshift, and any further deviation would be fo a new 3D package completely, if Blender doesn't completely satisfy. Whether or not this machine will be with me all throughout these changes I'm not sure, but I don't think it matters too much for what I need right now.

The best answer I can give is I'm willing to shell out another 1k and a bit past my 3k budget to have insurance with my indecisiveness. With that budget, I do want to get good performance out of Blender while still having the machine be decent with GPU renderers.


--


Also friend said to ignore the gsync and recommended I just get 1 good ISP monitor + get an adapter for my old one to use a second. Also asked if there's a cheaper 4TB harddrive cause the price on that one is too much.

 

[g-unit1111]

As for the thread, read it over a few times... is the consensus to go with two 2070's? The friend I was talking with invested in a 2080 with a Threadripper (I'm fine with the i9 since I'm not completely committed to cg work, I do plan on a bit of video editing as well) - he's using Blender as well. He probably plans to get another 2080 when Blender RTX support comes online + he's committed to using GPU renderers. Not sure how much better of a performance you get when using two 2070's vs two 2080's, but then again he's fairly certain with Octane or Redshift.

Yeah I agree, I think a TR4 is definitely a better buy at this point than a comparable X299 rig. X299 is kind of old right now and even for rendering, the 1950x and current 2950x are cheaper than their comparable i7 models and perform way better in tests.

The best answer I can give is I'm willing to shell out another 1k and a bit past my 3k budget to have insurance with my indecisiveness. With that budget, I do want to get good performance out of Blender while still having the machine be decent with GPU renderers.

I wouldn't necessarily advise buying insurance just for your PC. Once you get it built and running there really shouldn't be a whole lot that can go wrong with it, and even if you do, most things are covered under the manufacturer warranty.

 

[Darkbreeze]

You certainly CAN go with Threadripper, but here's the problem. The CPUs are slightly less expensive, but the motherboards are DOUBLE the price of a compatible LGA 1151 motherboard for Coffee lake/refresh CPUs. If you are getting by, at all, with the hardware you have now, then even a Ryzen 7 or i7/i9 is going to be like going from a rowboat to a speed boat or at least a jet ski. LOL.

I actually DON'T recommend the 2070, but 1080 TI's are no longer available and the 2080 TI or even 2080 were a lot more expensive, and I was trying to make the monitors fit the budget, while keeping it as low as possible. You would certainly be better off like this, at least in the area of graphics, for obvious reasons.

Not only would that give you much better performance now, you could add a second card later if you felt like you needed to. Which is doubtful. Creating and playing are totally different, as you know, and playing is usually a lot more demanding on hardware if you have high expectations. But depending on the application, creating and productivity can be very demanding too.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($498.75 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($87.75 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($228.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($252.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.50 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Western Digital - Red Pro 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($228.92 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB Black Video Card ($999.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 Black TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($185.50 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($199.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Monitor: BenQ - GL2760H 27.0" 1920x1080 60 Hz Monitor ($188.99 @ Powertop)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VP2768-4K 27.0" 3840x2160 Monitor ($591.38 @ Amazon Canada)
Mouse: Logitech - MX MASTER 2S (Black) Wireless Laser Mouse ($97.00 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $3859.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-31 14:14 EST-0500

 

[thedhenzel]

You certainly CAN go with Threadripper, but here's the problem. The CPUs are slightly less expensive, but the motherboards are DOUBLE the price of a compatible LGA 1151 motherboard for Coffee lake/refresh CPUs. If you are getting by, at all, with the hardware you have now, then even a Ryzen 7 or i7/i9 is going to be like going from a rowboat to a speed boat or at least a jet ski. LOL.

I actually DON'T recommend the 2070, but 1080 TI's are no longer available and the 2080 TI or even 2080 were a lot more expensive, and I was trying to make the monitors fit the budget, while keeping it as low as possible. You would certainly be better off like this, at least in the area of graphics, for obvious reasons.

Not only would that give you much better performance now, you could add a second card later if you felt like you needed to. Which is doubtful. Creating and playing are totally different, as you know, and playing is usually a lot more demanding on hardware if you have high expectations. But depending on the application, creating and productivity can be very demanding too.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7 GHz 6-Core Processor ($498.75 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($87.75 @ Vuugo)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME Z390-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($228.99 @ Mike's Computer Shop)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($252.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.50 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Western Digital - Red Pro 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($228.92 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB Black Video Card ($999.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 Black TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($185.50 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($199.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Monitor: BenQ - GL2760H 27.0" 1920x1080 60 Hz Monitor ($188.99 @ Powertop)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VP2768-4K 27.0" 3840x2160 Monitor ($591.38 @ Amazon Canada)
Mouse: Logitech - MX MASTER 2S (Black) Wireless Laser Mouse ($97.00 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $3859.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-01-31 14:14 EST-0500

Thanks for all the help you've been giving so far and being patient with this. Im putting a lot of pressure on myself to buy a build because its impossible to work at home, and it doesn't help being not knowledgable or unsure of what im even doing with this thing and how to build it.
But, spoke with friend again, and he pointed out that his build is really strong for not only GPU rendering, but simulations as well, granted he dumped 5 - 6k into it. Things like simulating cloth, large scale displacement calculations, etc., and a lot of that is very relevant to concept art and more importantly in my case, pursuing a lot more scene building and cinematic work.
You make a good point about play. I do want a machine that is able to play on a very high level.
I doubt this machine will be used to simulate an ocean or 100 clothing pieces, but I definitely want to be able to learn things like this -
https://youtu.be/iY1QHpp6iEE

Granted hes using C4D, but i would love to attempt learning to do this with a Blender workflow. And if thats the case physics calculation and rendering is something i probably should prioritize more. Not sure if animation falls into this category either, but even things like handling a simple body rig.

Here are some other references:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHAydeWg0wk (Octane)
https://altcinc.com/work/gits (C4D, Octane)

Still would like to attempt doing this level of polish but with Blender and GPU render. Should have mentioned Marvelous Designer as well, now that we're talking simulation... Whether or not ill get those things much more out of this budget, idk. But friend suggested i put a hold on the monitors and use that extra 800 for the build, which I'm more than okay with doing.


Again, thanks for your help with this. Really do appreciate the time you're taking.

​

 

[Darkbreeze]

With Threadripper, four DIMMS, to support the quad channel memory architecture. Twelve cores, 24 threads, more than enough , by a long shot, for what you're doing.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Threadripper 1920X 3.5 GHz 12-Core Processor ($524.95 @ shopRBC)
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-U14S TR4-SP3 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($99.95 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME X399-A EATX TR4 Motherboard ($379.00 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z RGB 32 GB (4 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($346.99 @ Amazon Canada)
Storage: Crucial - MX500 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($179.50 @ Vuugo)
Storage: Western Digital - Red Pro 4 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($228.92 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce RTX 2080 8 GB Black Video Card ($979.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Fractal Design - Define R6 Black TG ATX Mid Tower Case ($185.50 @ Vuugo)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($169.99 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($119.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Monitor: BenQ - GL2760H 27.0" 1920x1080 60 Hz Monitor ($189.99 @ Canada Computers)
Monitor: ViewSonic - VP2768-4K 27.0" 3840x2160 Monitor ($584.38 @ Amazon Canada)
Mouse: Logitech - MX MASTER 2S (Black) Wireless Laser Mouse ($96.97 @ Amazon Canada)
Total: $4086.12
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-02-01 17:24 EST-0500

 

[Darkbreeze]

Just wanted to add a little something, due to this article I just read which I thought MIGHT be applicable to your productivity workflow IF you should decide to work in 4k at some point. If not, then there is no issue, but if you do, and if you encounter any of the specific types of issues working in 4k and exporting multiple streams or anything that might exceed the VRAM on your card, could be an issue.

I'm not necessarily recommending that you should look instead at a Radeon VII, but it's interesting to note that there ARE situations where the lack of VRAM might be a problem.

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/02/07/16gb_hbm2_on_radeon_vii_needed_for_real_world_4k_video_production/

 

[thedhenzel]

Just wanted to add a little something, due to this article I just read which I thought MIGHT be applicable to your productivity workflow IF you should decide to work in 4k at some point. If not, then there is no issue, but if you do, and if you encounter any of the specific types of issues working in 4k and exporting multiple streams or anything that might exceed the VRAM on your card, could be an issue.

I'm not necessarily recommending that you should look instead at a Radeon VII, but it's interesting to note that there ARE situations where the lack of VRAM might be a problem.

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/02/07/16gb_hbm2_on_radeon_vii_needed_for_real_world_4k_video_production/

Hey, thanks for this. I don't think I'll be needing extra VRAM for anything like that, unless it counts for rendering in 3D software. Any video editing I do probably won't be that crazy, and I'm sure the 2080 would be able to handle it.

However it was an interesting read/watch. I don't know much about this stuff so it's nice to pick out things that are relevant to what I do.

Thanks again btw for the build. Appreciate the all the help you've given.

 

[thedhenzel]

Just wanted to add a little something, due to this article I just read which I thought MIGHT be applicable to your productivity workflow IF you should decide to work in 4k at some point. If not, then there is no issue, but if you do, and if you encounter any of the specific types of issues working in 4k and exporting multiple streams or anything that might exceed the VRAM on your card, could be an issue.

I'm not necessarily recommending that you should look instead at a Radeon VII, but it's interesting to note that there ARE situations where the lack of VRAM might be a problem.

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2019/02/07/16gb_hbm2_on_radeon_vii_needed_for_real_world_4k_video_production/

Actually, on another note, I'm thinking of having this build be assembled by a retail called Canada Computers. Is there anything I should I request? For example in addition to assembly, they offer water cooling, cable management and RAID configuration (not sure about the last one). The only thing I would be concerned about is leaving room for a second 2080, just in case I really want a really buttery GPU renderer.

 

[Darkbreeze]

RAID=NFW, if you know what that means. I won't clarify, because, it's NSFW so to speak. In plain speak, no fracking way. RAID is one of those things we wish would go away so people would stop trying to use it, especially where SSDs are involved and RAID actually SLOWS things down. Stick with a standard drive installation.

I'll be honest, if you are intelligent enough to understand how to create code, and run the programs necessary to create game graphics, then you are not a dumb ass, and could easily assemble this yourself. Now, if you simply don't WANT to have to do it, then my advice would be to find a local but reputable shop, ask around, talk to the shop people, get a feel for what they know and don't know and how knowledgeable they are, and have it done locally if there is a shop or individual you can feel comfortable with AND that will back up and support their work if something goes awry.

Seriously, I know MANY 14 year olds that can, and do, build their own systems. If you have three to four hours (More if you want to do a fairly nice job with cable management and such) you can set aside one day for the assembly and such, you could easily tackle this yourself.

This is a very good primer on assembling your first system, and is in three parts. Worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4

If after watching it you still feel like it's beyond your capabilities, then not much else I can say other than be sure the place that assembles it is highly reputable and stands behind their work because a builder that does a crap job, usually turns good parts into a crap build.