[SOLVED] Looping POST - failed motherboard/CPU?

[martinch]

Hi all,

My relatives have an 8 year old PC, which has started playing up - if you switch it on:

1. the case power LED comes on and the case fans spin up, then
2. the CPU debug LED on the motherboard flashes and the CPU fan twitches, then
3. the case power LED goes off and the case & PSU fans spin down, then
4. the process repeats in a loop (go to step 1) until you power it off by holding the power button down

PC specs:

• Intel Core i3-4330 (with stock cooler)
• ASUS Z87-A motherboard
• 8GB Corsair Vengeance LP 1600MHz DDR3 (2x 4GB)
• SeaSonic G-Series 450W PSU
• Fractal Design Define R4 case
• No GPU (using iGPU), boot device is a Crucial MX500 (2.5"), no other hardware beyond DVD drive

I've tried:

• removing the motherboard from the case
• starting it by shorting the jumper pins with a screwdriver to rule out faulty power/reset switches
• removing the CPU, swabbing the contacts with IPA and reseating it (I also checked the socket on the motherboard for bent pins - there weren't any)
• removing the RAM, swabbing the contacts with IPA, and reseating them
• starting it with only 1 stick of RAM (I tried it with each stick)
• removing everything except the CPU (i.e. no RAM)
• switching the PSU for a Corsair RM550X

None of the above has made any difference (except when the Corsair PSU cycles, it makes two audible "mechanical switch" sounds).

Does this sound like a bad motherboard/CPU, or something else?

If it does sound like failed motherboard/CPU, are there any motherboards/manufacturers I should look at or avoid these days? It's only going to be used for web browsing and writing letters, so I'm guessing I'd probably be looking at something like a Core i3-10100, a B460/B560 motherboard (with HDMI & DisplayPort outputs), and 2666MHz memory? Ideally, I'm just looking for something that'd be reliable and hopefully go for a good few years without needing to be looked at.

Thanks

EDIT: I have attached a system speaker to the motherboard, and there are no beeps.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Customer service is irrelevant for a manufacturer. Returns are handled by the retailer, not by Asus themselves.

Maybe where you live, but not most places, and certainly not in the US unless you bought it through Newegg. And for ABSOLUTELY certain, not after a specific time (Like 30 or 90 days) for any retailers in the US who DO offer an in store warranty. If you buy an ASUS board through Amazon, Ebay, B&H Photo or any of the other non-Newegg retailers, and you are past the return period but still in warranty, you WILL be dealing, or attempting to deal, directly with ASUS. That's a fact, not an opinion. I can bring ten veteran builders in here that will all tell you the same thing.

I assure you, there's a reason this meme is kept at close reach.

And anybody who thinks customer service is irrelevant for a manufacturer, REALLY has no clue about how this industry actually works. But again, we are moving off topic and it doesn't really help the OP to continue down that path. Not really.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Just for completeness, the case insides are almost completely free of dust (the case has fan filters), I checked that the heatsink fan works (by powering it separately and making sure it span up to something that looked like full speed), and it's definitely adequately cooled (2x 140mm intake fans, and 1x exhaust).


Yup, I made sure I'd worked through that (and the linked post) before I posted

Visually, the motherboard looks OK (no bulging capacitors, scorch marks, etc - either front or back). The only signs of "life" from the motherboard area are a momentary flashing of the CPU "debug LED" on the motherboard, and a twitch of the CPU fan. I'm guessing this is leading to a "dead motherboard" diagnosis ...

HAVE you tried a different power supply, before condemning the board? I mean, it's very likely a board failure, but I'd REALLY want to try the board on the bench with a different, preferably somewhat new and known reliable unit, before pulling the trigger on a new board or platform. Unless of course a new platform is what the client wants in which case they'll get that regardless.

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

I would put the motherboards more in this order from best to worst.
MSI
ASRock
GB
Biostar
NZXT
Asus.

Gigabyte higher than ASUS? My two dead B550 Aorus Pro boards, and my thriving ROG Strix B550-F, would like to have a word. Model > Brand anyway.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right. Model is more important than brand when comparing boards. But again, whatever model you get doesn't really matter if you can't get adequate support for it when you need it. When a guy spends 350 dollars on a motherboard, and can't get it replaced when the onboard LAN adapter fails at 6 months or a year, on a standard three year warranty for motherboards, then it really doesn't add up to a tin crap how good the board was initially or in comparison to anything else.

And, I'm NOT saying that everybody has had the same RMA and warranty experiences with ASUS, because in the past I've had good experiences with them, but they've grown too fat and think they can simply ignore users now and much like MSI with their attempts to bully reviewers, it's something that I just can't put up with. Especially when I see so many others who come here experience the same issues after we've told them to move forward with the RMA or they did it on their own, and got crapped on.

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

Right. Model is more important than brand when comparing boards. But again, whatever model you get doesn't really matter if you can't get adequate support for it when you need it. When a guy spends 350 dollars on a motherboard, and can't get it replaced when the onboard LAN adapter fails at 6 months or a year, on a standard three year warranty for motherboards, then it really doesn't add up to a tin crap how good the board was initially or in comparison to anything else.

And, I'm NOT saying that everybody has had the same RMA and warranty experiences with ASUS, because in the past I've had good experiences with them, but they've grown too fat and think they can simply ignore users now and much like MSI with their attempts to bully reviewers, it's something that I just can't put up with. Especially when I see so many others who come here experience the same issues after we've told them to move forward with the RMA or they did it on their own, and got crapped on.

My experience with Gigabyte support has been disastruous -- ASUS on the other hand responded to all my inquiries faster and in a nicer manner.

 

[martinch]

HAVE you tried a different power supply, before condemning the board?

Yup. The PC had a SeaSonic G-Series 450W PSU in it from when the PC was built in 2013. I did wonder if it was a PSU issue, so I tried it with a Corsair RM550X (which I knew was OK).

 

[TommyTwoTone66]

I assure you, there's a reason this meme is kept at close reach.

I make my hardware choices based on facts and logic, not memes and anecdotes. One person’s experience is irrelevant.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience in the past with Asus US customer service, but that doesn’t mean that company is now the same as a person that you now want to go and lynch. (As per the meme you posted).

But yeah, sucks that return periods are so short at the places you shop at. Amazon give you a year, not 30 or 60 days. A year is enough time to figure out if you have a manufacturing defect.

Anything that happens to your hardware after a year is kinda assumed to be your own fault. As system builders that is the risk we take, and if you don’t like it maybe buy a Dell with an extended warranty.

In terms of the best performing, least likely to fail hardware you can buy, it’s Asus every time. Will it take forever for them to fix it if you break it, and will you get <Mod Edit> service if you ask for updates or go all Karen on them on the phone? Probably, so don’t break it.

 

[Zerk2012]

Gigabyte higher than ASUS? My two dead B550 Aorus Pro boards, and my thriving ROG Strix B550-F, would like to have a word. Model > Brand anyway.

This I will agree with model first because some have issues depending on the chipset used.

I will always list Asus last because if you do your research you can find a board that uses better quality parts or has better power regulation for the same or lower price. You only miss out on the gimmick software and things like AI suit that can cause problems or their anti surge detection that is known to give false positives.

The customer service sux for all manufactures I believe this is hit or miss just depending who you can get to answer.

The only numbers I could find for RMA rates was from 2018 and they ranged from 1.6 to about 2.6 for all makers listed that they had at least a 200 sample pool for the manufactures. It also stated some data may be skewed because of Asus using a rapid exchange program for their high end boards so it never actually went into the RMA list.

EDIT a part failure can happen on anything made but yes do your research then buy.

 

[Darkbreeze]

One person’s experience is irrelevant.

Wrong.

It's fair to say that the "average" persons experience is irrelevant, but those of us who spend every day here, often for many hours a day, for years on end, in addition to the PC related work we do in our daily professional lives, puts us in a different category when it comes to "experience" in this regard. Of course, that won't be sufficient for you, and there is absolutely no point in arguing it, so for you, you win, for everybody else, we'll move forward.

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

I will always list Asus last because if you do your research you can find a board that uses better quality parts or has better power regulation for the same or lower price.

My Gigabyte board was $30 more expensive, died once (replacement DOA) and had worse components than my ROG Strix board.

VRMs on this board are top notch as well.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Amazon give you a year, not 30 or 60 days.

Either they have entirely different laws and rules where you live, or you took the wrong colored pill when Morpheus offered you the choice. Because that absolutely, 200% is not true in the US.

Amazon has ONLY a 30 day policy for returns

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GKM69DUUYKQWKWX7

and they do not handle warranty claims for other manufacturers after that period of time.

They DO have a one year warranty on Amazon branded electronics etc., but that is for their OWN products, NOT for other manufacturer or retailer products. They DO NOT offer a one year warranty on an ASUS motherboard, or any other manufacturer that is not themselves. I dislike focusing on a single person other than the OP in a thread, but you are making a lot of vaporous claims and attempting to spread information that is at best, misleading.

You are trying to take information pertaining to Amazon's warranty coverage for "Amazon-branded products" (And also a SELECT few items from other manufacturers that Amazon has a special retailer relationship with, like Rivet furniture products) and attempting to apply that to everything Amazon sells, and that's plain nonsense, but I'll grant you that it might just be a lack of understanding on your part.

Even a newly purchased board bought on Amazon, out of the box, will be referred to the specific 3rd party retailer, not Amazon, if there is a problem, unless Amazon.com was listed as the actual retailer. In that case, you have 30 days. After that, Amazon will refer you to the manufacturer and they MIGHT refer you to the manufacturer anyhow depending on the root cause of your claim. There is no doubt about any of this. It is fact. Easily found with a short search.

 

[Darkbreeze]

My Gigabyte board was $30 more expensive, died once (replacement DOA) and had worse components than my ROG Strix board.

VRMs on this board are top notch as well.

How many motherboards have you purchased and installed, in your lifetime?

 

[Zerk2012]

My Gigabyte board was $30 more expensive, died once (replacement DOA) and had worse components than my ROG Strix board.

VRMs on this board are top notch as well.

Just to cut to the fishy part.

Those boards were released less than a year ago and your on your 3rd board for your personal build without having any real shop experience. That would say you haven't had the Asus board for even 1 year and have no clue how it will really hold up.

You also forgot about your warranty I guess, I hope you at least got a refund.

And no the Asus does not have better parts.

Gigabyte B550 AORUS Pro Review

At long last, B550 has arrived! The B550 AORUS Pro from Gigabyte features a 12+2 phase VRM, Gigabyte's famed finned VRM cooling solution, 2.5 Gb/s LAN from Realtek, and a full set of mainstream features.

www.techpowerup.com

EDIT Asus tech support just as bad or worse that the rest.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/computers/asus.html?page=2#sort=top_reviews&filter=none

 

[Deleted member 2720853]

That would say you haven't had the Asus board for even 1 year and have no clue how it will really hold up.

Better than dying on me straight up and giving me headaches trying to refund it. I didn't forget about my warranty, requested a replacement and it was DOA. That prompted me to get a refund.

Considering I run everything on stock, and that this board can survive a CMOS reset without corrupting my BIOS (unlike the other one), and it has a well built VRM that can handle pretty much anything, handles any RAM I throw at it like a champ (unlike the other one), while being cheaper, I'd say it's pretty good for my needs and will last way more than I need it to.

How many motherboards have you purchased and installed, in your lifetime?

Why does that even matter? I'm here to give my experience on two models, as I stick by my "model > brand" belief, not the entire motherboard lineup from both Gigabyte and ASUS. And so far the Strix B550-F has been better, and cheaper, than the B550 Aorus Pro, not to mention another user had the exact same board dying on him making him think his CPU is dead, just like my experience.

Yeah, ASUS tech support might be crap like every other manufacturer, definitely, but my experience with them has been much better than with Gigabyte.

Buy what you want, just be well informed of the model you want to purchase. Other B550 Aorus boards may be fantastic, the B550 Aorus Pro sure isn't and should be removed from store shelves. My Strix B550-F might be fantastic, other ASUS B550 boards might not be and should also be removed from store shelves. Be a brand loyalist if you want, even though that's pretty stupid. As I said earlier, I'm going to stick by my beliefs. This thread is derailing quick, so this is my last reply. Don't expect an answer. Want to talk about this, come to DMs.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Just because a specific board MODEL didn't work out for a given user, doesn't make it a bad board. There could be any number of reasons why the board died or was DOA. It's when numbers of people within a range of time all report similar failings on a given board model or series that we condemn the board as a poor choice. Every, EVERY single board model that has EVER been made and sold on the consumer market has had SOMEBODY who got a bad sample. That doesn't make the board itself a poor choice or a lesser or better choice than some other comparable board. It just means you were unfortunate. Now, if you got the same board two or three times and all of them were bad, or you got two or three Gigabyte boards in a row with significant problems, that would be a different story.

So, while your experience is certainly valid, a sample of one doesn't mean much as has already been stated here several times. There needs to be a pattern of failure for it to be of any significance.

 

[TommyTwoTone66]

Either they have entirely different laws and rules where you live, or you took the wrong colored pill when Morpheus offered you the choice. Because that absolutely, 200% is not true in the US.

Amazon has ONLY a 30 day policy for returns

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GKM69DUUYKQWKWX7

and they do not handle warranty claims for other manufacturers after that period of time.

They DO have a one year warranty on Amazon branded electronics etc., but that is for their OWN products, NOT for other manufacturer or retailer products.

Ah. Thanks for clarifying. In most areas of the world where Amazon operate, the return policy is 1 Year. the US seems to be somewhat of an outlier there. In my jurisdiction it is 1 year. Even still, 30 days seems reasonable, provided you stress test the board for that amount of time. A 30-day burn-in is probably a good idea anyway, and it would certainly bring forth any hidden defects waiting to manifest.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, they tend to not like getting called out publicly on social media platforms and react both quickly and favorably, in most cases, if it's really making them obviously look bad.

 

[martinch]

Apologies for the late update, but I ended up getting an ASUS B560M-A, Core i5-11400, and Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000MHz DDR RAM, and it all seems happy.

I was going to go with a Core i3, but went with the Core i5 due to local availability and pricing - it was less than £10 more than the i3, and was cheaper than the old i5-10400 (it feels like overkill, but also far better value than the i3...). In terms of motherboards, it was a choice between the ASUS B560M-A or TUF Gaming B560-PLUS, and Gigabyte's AORUS ELITE B560M, and the B560M-A was cheapest/least over-specified.

I was a little worried having read that Rocket Lake runs hot, but it mostly seems to be sitting around 30-35C for normal usage (web browsing), and hits mid-50s when doing more work (patching), although it did briefly hit 85C when installing a new kernel (it did drop back down very quickly, though).

Thanks for your help (I will try to work out how to pick the "best answer" in a bit...)