M.2 SSD on HP ML110 Server - Problems!

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Hi,

I am fairly new to this, & we are trying to fit two Samsung 970 Pro's in a Raid 1 set-up on to an HP ML110 Gen 10 Server. But there are no M2 slots so we are having to use a riser kit which plugs in to a PCIe slot. Does anyone know whether this will allow the drives to operate via the PCIe bus, or does the fact that we (appear) to have to connect Sata leads to the cards mean that it will use the Sata bus & we will suffer significantly degraded performance?

Thanks in advance!
 


It was created to provide faster speeds due to the limitations of SATA... like I said just compare any M.2 to a standard SSD drive. You can easily obtain much faster speed then you could with a SSD drive due to the port limitations. Now yes, you use SATA on an M.2 you will get those speeds. But M.2 is able of obtaining much higher speeds, which is why it was created.

This is why M.2 even exists.

This is all I'm saying. SATA bottleneck exists. Technology used with the M.2 is what was created to bypass that limitation. M.2 drives are typically faster then standard SSD counter part, which was created because the M.2 slot can support those speed on the PCI bus. Using SATA port on an M.2 you would clearly hit the SATA limits aka bottleneck.

"First, a quick note about SSDs – they’re fast. So fast in fact, their limiting factor is not their own hardware, but rather the SATA III connection that hard drives have traditionally used. Enter NVMe. Standing for “Non-Volatile Memory Express,” NVMe is an open standard developed to allow modern SSDs to operate at the read/write speeds their flash memory is capable of. Essentially, it allows flash memory to operate as an SSD directly through the PCIe interface rather than going through SATA and being limited by the slower SATA speeds. Put another way, it’s a description of the bus the component uses to communicate with the PC, not a new type of flash memory. It is also unrelated to the form factor, which is why NVMe drives can come in both M.2 or PCIe card form factors. With both form factors, the component is connecting electrically to the PC via PCIe rather than SATA."

http://www.velocitymicro.com/blog/nvme-vs-m-2-vs-sata-whats-the-difference/

SATA port, using SATA interface = possible bottleneck. That is simply all I'm stating.
 



YET AGAIN

You said:

this is why m.2 is directly on the mobo and doesn't go through SATA connections...

M.2 slots on the motherboard CAN BE SATA and GO THROUGH THE SATA BUS. YOU literally are now asking if I realize what I have been saying all along.

Clearly we had a misunderstanding and are both saying the same thing when it comes to M.2 PCIE drives.

But AGAIN M.2 SLOTS does not mean its automatically high speed PCIe. ALL M.2 SLOTS don't ALL support PCIe or NVMe.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-850-EVO-Internal-MZ-N5E250BW/dp/B00TGIVZTW

That drive right there is no faster than its 2.5 inch SATA III counterpart.

Next He said right in the post

two Samsung 970 Pro's

Those are M.2 PCIe NVME drives. They will not work in the adapter you showed, nor will the work in the first adapter I posted. The SECOND adapter I posted however would run ONE of the two drives. The other slot on it is SATA only, hence the SATA plug on the back of it since it won't run the drive through the PCIe slot. It sounds like thats what he bought, but we don't know, again.

The adapter you linked absolutely will run an M.2 SATA drove through a SATA III port. Thats the point of it.

Yes the M.2 slot was created to allow for PCIe drives, but, again, the slot supports many protocols, one of which is SATA, and it does not speed up SATA, period.



And that is completely and totally wrong. Its a SATA III drive running SATA III Speed, on wired SATA port or an M.2 SATA port. They are one and the same,
 
Yeah we are basically saying the same thing...

All I'm stating is that there is a bottleneck that can be achieved when using SATA. That is it. It can be m.2 it can be whatever. If it is SATA based connection, it can reach the bottleneck.

And I never said anything about it speeding up SATA speeds... no sure where you got that from. All I stated was m.2 format was created to adopt the m.2 slot which was created to bypass that SATA limitations... aka using PCI due to how the m.2 slot is connected to mobo.

Now its possible I skipped over the driver model thinking it was a 870 which might have lead to this argument. However the core of the disagreement was the limitations with SATA that you refuse to acknowledged and is clearly there.
 
Now that we've completely confused the OP, we are no closer to providing him a solution to a problem that cannot be fixed.

His motherboard does not have the requisite ports, nor will those drives work as the RAID 0 OS drive in a PCIe slot with adapter, nor will his 970 Pro drives talk to a SATA interface.
 


I never did not acknowledge that SATA isn't limited in performance. It IS hence the use of PCIe NVMe drives, hence the development of M.2 which allowed small drives to use 4 PCIe lanes (instead of taking up a PCIe slot). U.2 was also developed to do it over a cable, but never caught on. But M.2 supports SATA, PCIe, and more. PCIe drives can't be "bottlenecked" by SATA, if the slot is an M.2 SATA slot they won't even work. If you plug a SATA drive to a SATA M.2 slot, the speed is the speed, there is no way to make that drive go any faster, at all. And some Motherboards DO have SATA M.2 slots.

I was disagreeing with what you said, which I copied again above. Maybe I should have replied "Some of this Info is incorrect" because its easy to assume I meant "all" which is not the case, however I pointed out the specific issues. One was confusion clearly with your top statement, and by both of us with what he said (because we still don't know what he bought in particular). And secondly was the statement regarding M.2 slots in boards. You can't Bottleneck a PCIe drive, because it won't work, hence confusion over the "SATA Bottleneck" which is impossible with a PCIe drive, as it won't work in a SATA only M.2 slot.
 


This is 100% NOT what you have been saying all thread long. And you still never showed any proof that M.2 SATA is faster than SATA III cabled to the motherboard. That's because you can't show that. It's impossible.

M.2 SATA and M.2 PCI are worlds apart in terms of maximum theoretical speeds. The only similarity they share is that they can SOMETIMES be used in the same M.2 slot. Even that is not always true. It depends on the motherboard and how it was designed. Talking out your left earhole will not change the fact that you have steadfastly refused to admit that both RL and USAFRet have been trying to correct your misinformation all thread long in order to not lead the OP astray, and you have steadfastly refused to listen.

My advice would be that you need to find and read a good primer on the basic tenets of the M.2 architecture. Then you will fully understand why your earlier statements cannot be taken as given.
 
Wow! Thanks so much all of you for the lively debate - I have learned plenty! Just posted before going away on holiday & never expected so many responses when I returned.

Thanks for all of the detailed explanations as to how these things work. I realise now that what we were trying to achieve simply will not work & we have had to arrange to sell the 970 Pro's on, & go with 860 Pro's instead accepting that we will have to suffer the limitations of Sata III. The HP server would not provide us with what we wanted to achieve while using the PCie drives so we have had to go along the downgrade route. I guess one day these M2 PCie drives will become commonplace & Sata III will become a thing of the past.

We suffered additional complications as all we wanted to achieve was for our server to be able to rapidly access files from the SSD as we have suffered very poor performance from our system in the past utilising conventional drives. However we have discovered that Active Directory running within Windows Server 2016 for some reason causes drastically reduced write times specifically with SSD's & so our performance was going to be severely compromised anyway. We are going to try putting the Operating System on to a pair of Barracuda's & try our database on a pair of 860 Pro's & see whether that will give us reasonable performance.

Once again, many thanks for all the help, & I am sorry it got a little heated. Have learned a lot anyway!
 


Again. I never said M.2 SATA was faster then standard SATA Port usage. I said the point of the M.2 creation was to allow for other technologies to bypass the SATA bottleneck hence obtaining faster speeds via use of PCI lanes. Even the articles I linked was pointing in that very direction...

Read the articles I posted... half of them talk about nvme and direct PCI connections.

Ive been stating there is a SATA bottleneck and you continued to refuse to agree there was a SATA bottleneck. That is what I'm focusing on. If you read anything else then that from these posts. Then you were misunderstanding my comments. Plain and simple.
 
The ASUS ROG RAIDR looks like a promising PCIe SSD storage alternative that supports fast speed with legacy boot compatibility. But, it's over four years old tech.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIADFR73F0630&cm_re=PCIe_SSD-_-20-785-002-_-Product

"DuoMode

First legacy and UEFI BIOS-compatible PCIe SSD

RAIDR Express is the world’s first and only PCIe-based SSD. It features two BIOS chips and an onboard hardware flip switch, letting you alternate between legacy and UEFI modes, ensuring the best compatibility.

In legacy mode, the RAIDR Express can be used on older motherboards - those with traditional (non-UEFI) BIOS. Flip to UEFI mode, and you can significantly boost the startup time of your PC. You get the flexibility of choosing which mode is right for you, and make the best of both."

"Driver-free Design with Complete TRIM Support

With an Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI), RAIDR Express doesn’t require any drivers – so you can experience the incredible speed benefits from the moment you plug it in. RAIDR Express also features support for TRIM command from within the operating system – support for which few other PCIe-based SSDs can provide. This keeps RAIDR Express running at top speed while extending the drive’s life."
 



Actually, that's exactly what you said, from the very start. It might not be what you MEANT, but it is EXACTLY what your words seem to indicate.




This is patently false. SATA M.2 drives absolutely use the exact same bus as SATA "connections". No difference. At all. As we've all tried to tell you, it does not matter whether it is an SATAIII SSD plugged into the SATA ports on the motherboard, or an M.2 SATA drive, speeds are the exact same.

As for PCI throughput, that too does NOT matter or have ANYTHING to do with the M.2 slot being on the motherboard. NOTHING to do with it. Any PCI drive plugged into a PCIe slot can and will have the same potential speeds as a PCI NVME M.2 drive plugged into an M.2 slot. How fast things are has nothing at all to do with M.2. ONLY whether they are SATA or PCI devices. Period.

So, we're not convinced, or at least, I'm not. But regardless, let's let it go going forward for the sake of trying to return the thread to the intent of helping the OP with his questions and concerns shall we. Thanks.
 
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