Mac, Windows XP, PS3, and Linksys Router disaster

[Dudester]

I have so many networking problems going on in my home network. I don't even know what is causing which problems. In reality, it could be a combination of things from each device. I have a modem connected to a Linksys Router w/ a Linksys Switch attachted to it. Linksys claims the switch should make the network function as if the router had more ethernet ports. Here are the problems for each device.

MacMacBook, OS X 10.6, less then 2 months old, connected to switch)
-has trouble connecting to external hard drive which is connected to the router. The mac is connected to the switch. mac-switch-router-external hard drive.
-has trouble connecting to Dell PC (Windows XP ).
*has trouble meaning it will sometimes connect to the device.

Dell PC(windows XP, pretty sure its connected to the router)
-cannot communicate with Mac in regards to iTunes home sharing
-randomly, a popup will display saying the local area connection has lost connection, been disconnected or something(the internet just stops working). The PC will immediately start to reconnect and will successfully every time. Mabe just a bad cable?

Playsation 3(slim 120GB model)
-Video chatting is laggy and will sometimes drop the connection
-in Call of Duty6) Modern Warfare 2, I cannot invite other people to do Special Ops with me, and others cannot invite to Special Ops. Special Ops is a game mode in COD where two players connect over the internet to do a mission where all the enemies are bot players. The game will not let me join a Special Ops game that I start or am invited to.
-When host migration occurs in multiplayer of COD sometimes it will just kick me out of the group.
-NAT type in internet settings of the PS3 is 2 and in COD it says that NAT type is strict. I don't know/understand what NAT type is, but according to other forums if you have a NAT type of 1 then you don't have these connectivity issues. This is why I think these problems are related to the router & other networking issues I have.

My theories:
-bad cables?
-router is bad/old?
-Router/computers are not configured properly. (This is the most likely issue)

Other reasons why my fingers point at the router.
-I have no wireless router in my house. Only a wired one. If I set up a wireless ad hoc network(computer to computer) between my Dell PC and my Mac. ... First of all the Mac can connect to the PC's wireless network, but the PC cannot connect to the Mac's. Ironically, my ipod touch can connect to the Mac and will sometimes work w/ the PC. (the PS3 doesn't detect the PC and I don't know about the Mac) If I connect the Mac to the PC(wirelessly), iTunes home sharing will work. But this is only over Wireless, I have yet to successfully make it work through the router and switch.
-printer has issues-has been better lately, but has had many issues connecting in past.

Any Ideas?

 

[eibgrad]

My overall impression is that most of these problems are NOT related to hardware. Particularly when so much of this does NOT involve wireless. Wired connectivity for the most part, even w/ consumer grade equipment, is very reliable. So that’s a big plus in your favor.

Another thing I noticed is that sometimes things work, then stop working. When it comes to networking, if it works at all, then intermittent problems are more likely due to software and not hardware. That’s not to say you couldn’t have, say, a bad cable. But if you can connect to a PC share one day, but not the next, that’s very unlikely to be a hardware issue.

When it comes to Mac vs. PC, who knows what issue there might be. It might just be protocol or security incompatibilities. Unfortunately I have very little experience w/ Apple, so I can’t be more specific. Same thing w/ wireless between Mac and PC, it sounds more like software/OS related issues, not hardware. Especially in light of the fact you have no problems using wireless between the iPod and Mac (both Apple products).

As far as the PS3 issues, realize that most of these games require you open and forward ports on your router to the PS3. If you don’t, some games won’t be available at all, or only within a limited feature set. And when it comes to getting “kicked out”, that might just be part of the game’s protocol.

What I suggest you do is place the PS3 in the DMZ of your router. It’s the simplest way to get around all those port forwarding and NAT issues. The DMZ is designed to allow one IP address (of your PS3 in this case) to receive any traffic from the Internet that would otherwise be forwarded to another local IP address or dropped. At least try it. If that improves the situation, you could then consider using either UPnP or manually configuring your ports for a better long term solution. But using the DMZ is a quick and dirty way to see if we can improve the situation.

So let’s work on one problem at a time. And deal w/ the easiest one first, the PS3. Follow my advice about the DMZ and see if you can move forward. You just have so many issues that if we try to solve all of them at the same time, I’m afraid it’ll just create more confusion.

 

[Dudester]

Thanks so much for replying. I'm not sure what you mean by DMZ, are you saying that I should connect the PS3 directly to the router or the modem? And in regards to configuring ports, I know how to get to those settings, but I don't know what I'm doing when I'm there. Can you be more specific/detailed?

 

[eibgrad]

wrt DMZ, normally your router erects a firewall between your network and the Internet. If that wasn't the case, then anyone on the Internet would have access your network through the routers ports. However, that presents a problem when you WANT/NEED certain applications to be able to get into your network (i.e., for legitimate purposes). In addition, because your router is a NAT router (which means it maps the ONE public IP provided by your ISP (e.g., 209.210.64.5) to many local IPs on your network (e.g., 192.168.0.100, 192.168.0.101, …)), when unsolicited traffic (i.e., traffic you didn’t initiate) is received at the router from the Internet, the router doesn’t know which of those local IP addresses that traffic should be forwarded to. All the traffic is marked as 209.210.64.5 (in this example), but it may be intended for 192.168.0.101 (let’s assume that’s the IP address of your PS3). You use the port forwarding feature of your router to both identify the ports that should be opened AND to which IP address the traffic on those ports should be forwarded.

Complicated, I know. But it’s just a consequence of using a firewall + NAT router.

So to make things easier, rather than open the ports and forwarding them one by one, you can use the DMZ. This is a feature available on almost every router. It’s a configuration option on the router where you identify a local IP address (in this case the one assigned to the PS3) to be placed in the DMZ. When you do, the router automatically forwards any traffic that would otherwise be blocked by the firewall to that IP address. In effect, it disables the firewall for that one IP address.

It’s not something you normally want to do, esp. if this was a desktop/laptop. But for the gaming system, it’s ok for the time being.

The only complication is that should your PS3’s local IP assignment change (which might happen if it’s using a dynamic IP assignment, i.e., DHCP), then obviously you would need to update the DMZ to the new IP. IOW, it can be a bit of headache if that happens a lot. To prevent that problem, you can either use a static IP assignment on the PS3, OR, some routers will let you assigned a fixed IP to certain devices (that are still configured for DHCP) based on their MAC address (usually configurable in the same place where you configure the router’s DHCP server). Your PS3 probably has the MAC address listed on the bottom or backside somewhere. If it’s both wired and wireless, there will actually be two, LAN MAC and WLAN MAC, respectively.

The only other alternative to manually configuring port forwarding or using the DMZ is UPnP (Universal Plug N Play). UPnP allows the game itself to open, close, and forward ports. To use it, UPnP must be supported on the router (it usually is) and PS3, and enabled in each device. Because the PS3 always knows its own IP assignment, even if it changes, it’s a non issue when using UPnP. You don’t even need to know which ports it needs. It just manages it all behind the scenes, it’s completely transparent.

So why doesn’t everyone just use UPnP? Because it’s considered more of a security risk. If malware gets into your network, it too could just as well open and forward ports for itself, and you would be none the wiser to it! Anything that adds convenience and simplifies the process invariably has a downside, usually in terms of security/safety.

So you really have three (3) ways to deal w/ these firewall issues. Port forward manually, use the DMZ, or use UPnP. Take your pick. Ultimately they all accomplish the same thing. But each offers varying degrees of hassle/convenience and security/safety implications. I figured using the DMZ would be easier than manually port forwarding, and I didn’t know if the PS3 even supported UPnP (it probably does). And I’m not a big fan of UPnP anyway because of the security issues.

 

[Dudester]

Okay, I figured out how I can make DMZ work. But I rather just have port fowarding set up. How do I know what ports and how do I set it up. I'm looking at my router settings now. They're organized as followed.
(top set of tabs>lower set of tabs)
Setup>basic setup, DDNS, MAC Address Clone, Advanced Routing
Security>filter, VPN Passthrough
Applications & Gaming> Port Range Fowarding, Port Triggering, UPnP Fowarding, DMZ, QoS
Administration>Management, Log, Factory Defaults, Firmware Upgrades
Status>Router, Local Network

Also on my PS3 I have video chatting, host migration, and another game. They all have problems because of inadequate router setup, but will they all use the same ports?

 

[Dudester]

Another interesting find on my router. Under UPnP Fowarding theres a chart showing: application, ext. port, TCP, UDP, Int. Port, IP address, enabled.
Theres some default apps labled FTP, Telnet, SMTP( and another 5 or so) but those aren't enabled. Those apps can't be changed, like you can't change the name. But below theres 5 that are enabled. These ones enabled have a box where you can edit the name of the Application and Ext. Port. What are these? Is it safe to post what they are? They could be nothing, but I don't know what they're used for.

 

[eibgrad]

Another interesting find on my router. Under UPnP Fowarding theres a chart showing: application, ext. port, TCP, UDP, Int. Port, IP address, enabled.
Theres some default apps labled FTP, Telnet, SMTP( and another 5 or so) but those aren't enabled. Those apps can't be changed, like you can't change the name. But below theres 5 that are enabled. These ones enabled have a box where you can edit the name of the Application and Ext. Port. What are these? Is it safe to post what they are? They could be nothing, but I don't know what they're used for.

One of the most useful sites for configuring port forwarding is http://portforward.com. It will list the most popular games, the TCP and UDP ports it needs, even how to configure your specific router. So start there. Since you didn’t mention your Linksys router’s model # specifically, I don’t know if it’s listed. But as popular as Linksys is, it probably is or just locate a similar model from Linksys (the procedure are not going to vary much within any given manufacturer). Just find your router (in the router list), then the platform/game (PS3 Call of Duty - Modern Warfare 2) in the port list, and it will walk you through the setup.

For your convenience, many routers are preconfigured for well-known services, which is probably what you’re seeing. If you need to make those services available for any reason, then all you need to do is enable them. So there’s no reason to be changing any of those. Some gaming routers will also come preconfigured for popular games.

Example:

Application: PS3 COD MW2 (1) (it’s just name, name it whatever you like)
Ext. Port: 2005 (the port (or range of ports) to be opened on the public side of the router)
Protocol: both (tcp and udp are types of IP traffic, ports sometimes handle tcp, sometimes udp, or both, don’t worry about knowing the differences, just get it right)
Int. Port: 2005 (the local port to which traffic should be forwarded)
IP Address: 192.168.0.100 (the local IP address to which traffic should be forwarded (in this case, the PS3))

 

[Dudester]

Thanks again. I'll have to work on that. Another issue. I'm internet sharing between my Mac and iPod touch. The Mac is broadcasting a wireless network and sharing the wired internet with it. At first I turned it on and tried to connect. The iPod gave me an ip address and a subnet mask. The IP addres was something like 169.254.53. Doesn't 169.254 mean the connection won't work? And after I turned of my wireless network on my mac and tapped 'forget this network' on my ipod. After I returned everything back on I got IP address 10.0.2.2, a subnet mask, router, and DNS address. With this configuration I can get wifi on my ipod. But it seems its always the 2nd time thats a charm. I think its the iPod that has the issue because I can 'forget the network' and turn the wifi off, and then turn it back on & reconnect and it will work.
The iPod's settings are somewhat limited. For the IP address I can choose DHCP, BootP or Static. DHCP is the only 1 that seems to work. Under that tab the only options i have are entering search domains, client ID. I also get a 'renew lease' button, HTTP Proxy>off, manual or auto.
More port fowarding needed? Other setting on my mac that I need to find?

 

[eibgrad]

Thanks again. I'll have to work on that. Another issue. I'm internet sharing between my Mac and iPod touch. The Mac is broadcasting a wireless network and sharing the wired internet with it. At first I turned it on and tried to connect. The iPod gave me an ip address and a subnet mask. The IP addres was something like 169.254.53. Doesn't 169.254 mean the connection won't work? And after I turned of my wireless network on my mac and tapped 'forget this network' on my ipod. After I returned everything back on I got IP address 10.0.2.2, a subnet mask, router, and DNS address. With this configuration I can get wifi on my ipod. But it seems its always the 2nd time thats a charm. I think its the iPod that has the issue because I can 'forget the network' and turn the wifi off, and then turn it back on & reconnect and it will work.
The iPod's settings are somewhat limited. For the IP address I can choose DHCP, BootP or Static. DHCP is the only 1 that seems to work. Under that tab the only options i have are entering search domains, client ID. I also get a 'renew lease' button, HTTP Proxy>off, manual or auto.
More port fowarding needed? Other setting on my mac that I need to find?

Anytime you’re assigned a 169.254.x.x address it means the client (iPod in this case) was unable to reach a DHCP server (or perhaps it did but it refused to provide the configuration information for some reason). Since it still wants to assign itself something, it chooses an arbitrary IP from the 169.254.x.x range. But it’s completely useless. It does little more than act as a placeholder (and indicator of a problem). In Windows, this is what generates that “limited connectivity” message, perhaps you’ve seen it.

Why might this be happening? Maybe because the wireless connection can’t be established in the first place. The fact you can turn the iPod wifi OFF and ON again to finally make it work makes me think it is an issue w/ the iPod, not the Mac. And if it is, then presumably the problem would happen at other wifi locations as well. But it works fine at other locations, perhaps it is the Mac. Unfortunately since I’m not a Mac user, I’m just not in a good position to speculate if and how it *might* be caused by the Mac.

I assume the 10.0.2.2 IP address it eventually receives is the same network being used by the Linksys router. And the Linksys router is assigned 10.0.2.1. And your Mac is somewhere in the 10.0.2.x range as well. I just want to be sure things are making sense. IOW, that the iPod is actually talking to the Linksys router when it issues its DHCP request.

As far as the rest of the parameters, none are going to address this problem.

 

[Dudester]

okay... lol, now in regards to wireless and ipod touch everything works. (Still haven't gotten to PS3, hopefully later today I need a friend to help me with it.) On the first try for connecting to the Mac and the Dell PC, the ipod touch got an ip address and was able to load Google.
I started investigating this odd outcome by trying to get the Dell PC to connect wirelessly to the Mac.
When I try to get the Mac from the Dell PC (PC -> Mac). I have to first switch which type of networks it can join, but then I still get a message saying "Windows is unable to connect to the selected network. The network may no longer be in range. Please refresh the list of available networks, and try to connect again". I assume this is the Dell PC's fault because my ipod doesn't have this problem, and my mac has no problem connecting to Windows. Do I have to unplug the network cable from the Dell PC so its not connected to the router? Is connecting to the router through the mac over wireless and having a wired cable plug in causing this problem?
I ran into another problem, I unplugged my mac from the router(acutally its the switch) and tried to connect the PC. On the Mac bar/menu bar (whatever they call it) it shows the mac is connected and on the Dell it also shows its connected. But no IP address.
After following the iPod touch technique(disconnect & turn off wifi, although I don't see a 'forget this network' anywhere so the mac still has the password memorized and it hasn't changed because the ipod can still connect) theres still no IP address(on the mac). I continued testing(tell me is it even worth it? Its all I know) by turning of the mac's wifi and replugging the mac back into the router. I get a working IP address and my ipod is still connecting with my mac AND my Dell.

So.... mac and dell over wireless or through the router doesn't work and my ipod touch just keeps working. lol. Mabe it is an incompatible thing, I sorta doubt it though. Since you don't know much about macs, I'll give you what I know.
The mac has a menu bar @ the top of the screen which is Mac's version of the Windows Task Bar and the system tray. The menu bar has an icon for wireless so you can quickly connect to those networks and it will show you how strong the signal is and if it gets a connection. The Mac has system preferences which is essentially the Windows Control Panel. Theres a section for networks which is split ethernet and airport(mac's wireless) and then shows Status, Configure IPv4, IP address, Subnet Mask, Router, DNS server, Search Domains, and an Advanced button. You can add to the list of the ethernet & airport and the advanced button brings up a window with the following tabs; TCP/IP, DNS, WINS, 802.1X, Proxies, Ethernet. I haven't explored it much more then that.
Theres also a Network Utility app which has the following tabs; Info, Netstat, Ping, Lookup, Traceroute, Whois, Finger, Port Scan.

Hopefully that can help you understand whats going on; if not tell me the key words that you might use in Windows to solve these issues. Thanks.

 

[Guest]

Dudester,

All I can say is OMG!!! Everything should connect to the router whether it's through a wired or wireless connection. All IP addresses assigned by the router through DHCP should be in the same range. (ie: 192.168.1.X). The PS3 should be assigned a static IP address that's outside the DHCP range but still in the same subnet. The PS3's static IP address should then be assigned to the DMZ on the router.

 

[eibgrad]

Grumpy9117 beat me to the punch. LOL

That's what I was about to recommend. Using the Mac as a WAP is just asking for trouble. Not only does it tie up your Mac unnecessarily, but who knows what kind of funky things are going on inside that Mac in dealing w/ those bridged networks. I'm not even sure the WAP is in infrastructure mode. For all I know it's adhoc and so it's one wireless client at a time.

Either add an WAP to your existing router or get a wireless router (wireless routers are often cheaper than an WAP, so it might make more sense). But if you insist on using your current router, fine, add a standalone WAP.

I'm willing to bet that will eliminate a lot of your problems.

 

[MMP75]

Dudester,

I just went through several months of mental masterbation regarding the linksys router and itunes on my new HP. For example, I could not download itunes and when I went to the Itunes store and had it installed on my new PC, when I brought it home, I COULD get on the Itune store's site; however, I COULD NOT download. Everytime it started giving the time, it would halt! So, I connected my ethernet and, viola, it worked. Which meant their was a problem with that damned linksys router and something with apple software. Not sure if my issue helps with yours, but I bought a new router (2-wire i.e., modem and router in one) and it has been smooth sailing since!!! Again, not sure if this helps, but a new router was just the trick for me. But then again, I am in a windows environment... so maybe my two cents won't work for you... if not, hopefully, someone else may benefit from this thread. Because I have not seen anybody post about the coalation between Apple and Linksys until I just saw your thread.

MMP