Microsoft Responds to Windows 8 Hate From Game Devs

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jonjonjon

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windows 8 is such a fail. who wants windows 7 converted to a tablet os for their desktop? i got a keyboard and mouse why would i use touchscreen? the windows "xbox" metro app is useless other then to see if friends are on xbox. also when im on xbox live i dont want to play against people on pc using a mouse and keyboard. if you look at the new xbox dashboard it has that stupid windows 8 tile look to it. the dashboard is another fail because whenever you click anything it takes 20 seconds to load. gimme the old blade dashboard with parties and would be very happy.
 
[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]I missed the point in the article where the rep was responding to the hate.[/citation]

Exactly. Its quite clear that big companies "Elephants" as are called in the marketing industry, have no way to change into a more effective strategy. They have so many Important CEOs, and other people to please, that they cannot improve. Its basicly like this:

You have the best idea for improving Win8, and making it awsome. Some Boss of yours loves the idea, your team loves the idea, and you can see profit in millions. You then try to Sell this idea to a 60+ year old CEO, who has no idea about computing, who hasent used a PC for more than checking his E-Mail in his life, and was raised on a totally diffrent market where what mattered was producing more and cheaper, than giving the consumers what they wanted.

Now, im quite sure you can guess how much he is going to love your ideas (since he is god, and you are some kid who gets payed minimum wage and comes with some crazy ideas).


 

Chewie

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[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Make the games for Linux... and the people will come.[/citation]
I personally believe that the gaming community is what keeps MS in most desktops.
If I found an 'it just works' way of playing my games on Linux, I'd never go near windows again.
For most families the first port of call for tech support is a game addicted teen. I reckon if Linux can grab them, they'll get some serious traction.
 

Chewie

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[citation][nom]tobalaz[/nom]Doesn't matter if Linux has become more user friendly or not, people as a whole are just plain stupid and stubborn and if they think they can't do something they'll refuse to try. You can hold their hand, walk them through it step by step and they'd argue with you the ENTIRE TIME that they can't do it, even if it was as simple as pressing a start button, and by the time they're done arguing with you that they can't do it they haven't learned a damn thing.Take it from someone who spent a few years at a help desk.I've ran Linux a few times, mostly years ago, and truth be told it was a pain in the ass and most Linux users at the time spent more time laughing at people that "couldn't get it" then try to help spread it. Its that kind of stigma Linux has associated with it that frighten most people off. If Linux wants desktop users, the game industry has to get together with the hardware manufacturers, pick a version and throw their support in that direction. Then you're going to have to see those Linux pcs sell retail, because most people aren't pc literate enough to build their own or install anything that doesn't let you drop in the disk, skip the EULA and just keep clicking ok until it puts an icon on their desktop.But back to the main topic.Microsoft is forcing a change on us.Just like when we went from DOS and 3.1 to Win 95.Just like when we went from 98 to XP.Just like when we went from XP to Vista.And now it's Win 7 to Win 8.Oh yes we'll bitch and moan, MS will stand pat, and we'll be forced to deal with the changes, and in 8 years from now we'll wonder how we ever dealt with the "old crap" we so desperately clutch to.Whether you like it or not, MS is pushing a universal platform so if you can use a Xbox, you can use your pc, phone and tablet just as easily. It's NOT EASY on us now, but we'll adjust.We don't have a choice in the matter.[/citation]

The last time I tried an Linux install I was gobsmacked by how easy it was. Both faster and easier than Win 7. But, and its a big enough but, apparently, for a lot of people, I am not aware of a program that I can install on Windows that will let me slap in my game dvd and install as per windows.
If I could find such a beast, it would be worth my while to install Linux, and slowly learn the other stuff involved in using Linux.
Maybe some kind of virtual machine that I could install on any flavour of Linux, and just open it to load or play games, kind of how Steam and Origin are supposed to work. Hell, just offer a $5/year subscription rate and watch the cash roll on in. Bye Bye Microsoft. Or not. Make the VM OS independant, and fanbois can keep their OS of choice. But I bet Microsoft would start losing market share fast.
 
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Game devs are just mad that Microsoft want a piece of the pie too. Windows 8 and Steam works great, same goes for StarCraft 2. Hell, FunCom/EA's The Secret World runs better on Windows 8 then on Windows 7 on the SAME BOX. If Steam would get off its lazy ass and submit its desktop app into the windows 8 store, they could get more casual gamer that don't know about it yet, or make it easier for us who know about steam to get it easier.
 

Oli999

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"the new OS will offer backwards compatibility for older Windows games"

No it doesn't. None of my older games worked when I "upgraded" to windows 8.
 

Oli999

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Interesting strategy Microsoft are adopting at the moment. They're ignoring all criticism of windows 8 and just keep insisting that it's brilliant and much better than Windows 7. Unfortunately there's too many of us who prefer to believe the evidence of our own eyes rather than just accepting what were told to believe by Microsoft.
 

N0Spin

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I fear this may already be a lost cause.

The current trend is that MS and other tech companies are attempting to expand their markets by increasing their appeal to 'the common man' (who may have never purchased or cared to use a PC), while showing little regard for their long-standing PC customer base.

I personally abhor the trend, but at this point I believe it's undeniable.

The fact that Metro is arguably a less optimal solution for the existing mouse and keyboard driven (non touch screen) installed PC base is fairly obvious. Adding additional steps/effort to accomplish the same basic tasks is the very definition of inefficiency.

Pushing a non-desktop-centric 'unified interface', across different OS's, on vastly different HW, is a way to leverage more (and disparate) software offerings in the long term (while placing the MS store front and center).

Once it achieves a certain market penetration, it may even become a selling point on that next must-have 'smart' appliance.
 

hajikelist

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@ejb222 when was the last time you installed a linux distro? 1994? that tired old excuse is waaaay beyond being wrong, it's just blatantly ignorant. Anyone can download and install OpenSuse, Ubuntu, or Fedora Linux [to name a few] and be up and running with an incredibly easy to use interface in short order. Not to mention all the awesome free linux software available then even ends up being used on Windows... Open/Libre Office, Apache, PHP, Ruby, Java [Minecraft runs awesome on Linux!] - and all the humble bundle games. There also this whole new thing you may have heard of called ANDROID running the Linux Kernel! Linux rocks.
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Make the games for Linux... and the people will come.[/citation]
That has been done before and every time they failed. We will have to wait and see how Valve
handles it but I think we will get alot of people finding out that they have to buy the games again
just to play them on Linux. There are really very few games that use OpenGL so taking the time
to port the games to Linux is going to cost the studio and that will be passed on to the consumer.

Then there is the fact that most games are closed source and most of the people I know run Linux
because they do not what to pay for software and think that every thing should be open source including all of the drivers. When I ran Linux I remember that Nvidia had the best graphics drivers and yet they are
the one's that get slammed for not having there drivers completely open source. I say bull if they work
that is all that is really needed. I see no logical reason to have every thing open source it just bull shit. I still have several games that I got for Linux during the big Game's for Linux days it was quite a few years ago. But they were nice and all of them came in metal boxes. Sadly because of the changes done to Xorg over the years non of them work any more. Linux was fun but for me it was not the OS I choose for my day to day use the software is just not there. Plus all the different package manager that exist from disto to disto. That is one thing that needs to get uniform amunst all distros but after all the years it still is a problem.
 
[citation][nom]VoiidWulf[/nom]I won't be upgrading to Windows 8. Windows 7 is perfect for my uses. I boot up in ~20 seconds and I'm good to go. My most used programs are in my quickbar at the bottom, and I see no reason to replace the desktop with a bunch of simple buttons.[/citation]
Most of the updates are things you can't see. Better memory management faster start up and shutdown times. All of my app's and games start faster on Windows 8 than they ever did on Windows 7.

Finding a app or game game is a lot faster than trying to navigate though the Windows 7 start menu especially after you get a lot of programs installed. With Windows 8 and Metro I have already found and have the app running before I could even find it in Windows 7 start menu. Open Metro scroll to the app and run. Windows 7 click the start menu then All Programs scroll to the folder you need open the folder then you can finally run the app! With Windows 8 the app is already up and running before it is even found in Windows 7.
 

trager

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Win 8 is just a change, not an improvement. Pro win 8 campaigners (PW8C) said we need time to learn, but I ain't gonna spent a lot of time learning something that is not an improvement to me. PW8C said people hated XP when it first came out then began to love it, true but XP was an improvement to win 98, so it's worth the effort. I have relied on my intuition about OS and had successfully avoided the Vista fiasco. And this time my intuition said avoid Win 8. Microsoft will never be able to cut into Android's market and will definitely lose some of theirs to Google with OS like this. Anyway, the trend that had been set by MS told us to skip one OS since Win 95 (skip Win 98, use XP, skip Vista, use Win 7...)well you get the picture.
 

Bipolarity

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"Make the games for Linux... and the people will come." 100% this!

"Dude did you not know that 90% of PC users would have no clue how to run linux(or even install it)....let alone install Wine to run EXE etc. If you want to use Linux, thats cool. But there is no way that the majority of PC users will switch to Linux."

exactly the common user knows nothing and takes there PC to a store to get anything done(have seen people take there PC into a store to get flash player installed) soo if more games where made for linux like belardo said there would be no need for crossover platform tech like wine, and it would be as easy for them to click a game out of the steam list and play... like they did before on windows..
provided that their OS/steam was installed prior... something Im sure most pc stores would be happy to do for a small fee(much smaller than what that same person would have payed to get windows installed)


 
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"I don't know why people think that Windows 8 will become a "closed garden" and force out services like Steam. After all, OS X is probably the most closed OS currently in existence and they still have Steam..." Well Apple computers don't have 2 different environments (desktop and metro), where the second one (metro) can only be accessed by applications submitted and downloaded trough the Windows Store. This means a non-store program can't even show global toast notifications!
 
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I'm using Win 8 right now, and i can say that my pc never looked faster, and it doesn't even have a discrete graphic card (core i3 first gen IGP). As someone said before, this is only people complaining about a new competitor. I had problems installing steam on Windows 7 x32/64 bits (2 different computers), but I could install it easily on Win 8 64bits. This is my experience. These people better stop making fake statements, as steam platform is full of shit too.
 

wizarddrummer

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When will the Lemmings ever learn not to follow the people in front of you off of the cliff?
I used to be a Lemming (20 years ago) I was always chomping at the bit for the next new thing (from anyone) so I could say I had it first.
Microsoft, for me, will never be anything more than a 3rd Rate Software Development Giant.
I can't see migrating to 8 at at all and if the trend continues towards Microsoft putting a lock on indie titles then it will hurt everyone (because of the Lemmings - the people that have to upgrade just because a new product has been introduced)
Microsoft EXCELS that the hoopla and hype and word buzz to get the Lemmings in a frothy state to rush out and get the newest pile of crap.
Because of this "hype culture" that has been instilled in generations of PC users, Microsoft knows that it will get the people to come on board.
FOLKS - You don't have to rush out and buy the latest and greatest from Microsleeze!
 

mynith

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Still a lot of hate towards OSX here in the comments. You know, that os isn't as closed as you think it is. Its kernel is based on FreeBSD, and even is open source, I think. And last I checked there is absolutely no reason why you can't install software from outside the app store. The only thing that really irritates me is that you have to buy a Mac with it, and I really can't afford a proper one at the moment. I myself run Kubuntu and have done so for the past two years. It hasn't let me down once. If you really want to see what a proper operating system is like and you are willing to customize it (the default setting doesn't really appeal to me), you might want to give that a go. More fan of something that works out of the box? Then regular Ubuntu might be more suited to your needs. Have a very slow computer? Get Lubuntu. Really, Linux has all you want, and I've only talked about the 'buntu ones. Fedora, Arch and many others are just as flexible.
 

MidnightDistort

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But you have to learn how to use Win 8 anyways no matter how easy or simple it might be you might as well find the OS of your choice instead of going through and learn how Win 8 works. Granted there is some familiarity but if Win 8 is the future of Windows then i might as well learn Linux, get Apple's OS or simply stick with Win 7. Either way i am not going to pay for something i'm not going to like or enjoy.

Win 8's interface is just terrible. I love Android, Apple OS's look easy enough and i would take Linux over Win 8. If MS wants my money they are going to have to either continue to update Win 7 or come out with an OS that has everything Win 7 has. They keep taking and taking and taking things i like about Windows and making it into something not worth paying for.
 

urbanman2004

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The worst part about Games for Windows Live is having to use its BS interface for games that require to save gameplay. Microsoft should be arrested for all the torture I had to go through to get it working.
 

zing921

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"Windows 8 is trying to be all things to all people, and thus failing to be good at anything in particular"

Wow, what a wide sweeping generalization that only the hater crowd could love. It's easy to say something because it goes with the crowd. Really quite an exaggeration if you truly stop, and think about it. There are some thin spots, but Windows is good at LOTS of things. Just games in itself is something it excels at. What other OS can boast having direct X, a huge library of code that handles the most complex graphics, along with the largest support from gfx card manufactures? OSX, nor linux couldn't even hope to come close. What about the vast amount of peripherials it supports? Others comes up short again. What OS has as many hardware and software options, providing so many choices on affordable, recent hardware? NONE. If you want an OS that doesn't do that, just pick something else, but it is a strong suite for windows.

When I saw Windows XP, I sort of went along with everyone saying it wasn't needed due to win 98 being fine. There was the 98 hater crowd, of course, but many people were afraid of the change. Little by little, it became glaringly apparent that XP was needed even if when you stared at the desktop, it wasn't far different. So MS got to hear how un-needed it was because it was about the same looking. Then with Vista, they reached too far ahead in the hardware world and it seemed to gobble up resources and had other little problems. Yet, it was still OK if you had an ounce of patience, and two years later hardware caught up just fine.

Then windows 7, seemed to take off nicely, but there were still a good share of people saying there was no use for windows 7 and they'd stay on XP. Remember? Please think back, because it's all true. You see, on the month of release, any OS appears to be the SAME because people are ignorant about what new features it has. Windows 7 seemed nice, but not really any better to me than XP for about 2 or 3 years for me. So I stuck with XP on one machine, but put 7 on another. By the end of about 2 years, I couldn't see how I'd ever want to go back to XP and give up what 7 had to offer.

Now Windows 8 kind of scares me like windows 7 did. But we just got this new lap top, core i7, touch screen and windows 8. I waited for the dreaded, I-can't-find-my-desktop problem. And all I had to do was push the windows button, or slide my finger from the left to get to it. Once I saw a desktop, my anxiety went away. But now I keep going back to that page with all the squares and tapping on them, running games and other apps. Some times, it's just easier than the mouse. Like a touch calculator is easier to me with touch screen than positioning a mouse pointer if the keys are big enough, which they are.
If I were on a more mobile device, or phone, that I'd want to stay with the icons/squares because a desktop would just be too tiny. Pushing icons is just easier and that's part of what the addition of 8 is about. I'm not a famed legend like Carmack, but have been a programmer since 79 and know quite a lot about GUI's and graphics on several platforms, including game development. I worked with Interplay and Parallax on Descent back in the day on music and programming. Me and a friend also knew Carmack.. I'm not trying to impress, but trying to impress upon, that I'm simply not an icon pushing, smart phone using newbie. I really love making my windows 7 machine do all sorts of things. As long as windows 8 allows this, I think it's cool. I also run a recording studio and am thinking about getting a huge touch screen monitor to move the faders up and down via touch screen during mix. I already know Sonar (the recording environment) supports touch and new windows 8 gestures. I'd put this on a separate monitor and tilt it down on the table so it could be a virtual mixing console.

I'll be honest and say, I've haven't gotten way into windows 8 yet... But I'm kind of intrigued by what pluses it may have and think Carmack and others are just apprehensive. And that's a bit understandable because every-time there is a new OS, it's a bit of work to get used to, to set up, and sometimes needs a new computer to take full advantage of it. It takes time and there is a learning curve. My point being I wasn't eager to jump into windows 7 and learn new things on day one, but now really like it and it seems like a no brainer. Maybe windows 8 will be a similar story in a couple of years. As long as there are shortcuts, and work-arounds to allow it to do what windows 7 does, I think it's worth waiting to see what new things it could possible offer. And of course a software developer will think it's a headache because they must recode some things. We always went through that back in the day, but it's often worth it. And yes, sure, MS could have offered everything Seven has to XP, but notice that they didn't. Little by little XP had less and less of seven's features. Again, I wouldn't go back to XP today for my main computer. Just saying..
 

MidnightDistort

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@zing921

I think it boils down to what you really want in a desktop and on a computer. XP has better stability than Windows 98 and Windows 7 has better stability than XP. However to some users, XP is good enough and i am sure there are a few 98 users out there still. For me, Windows 7 is all i need. There really isn't a feature on 8 that i really care that much about, it's pretty much the same for Vista users that feel that 7 is basically the same thing. When i had Win 98, i wasn't concerned about ME, or Windows 2000 and even when i first got XP i was still using 98 and it greatly depends on whether your software is compatible with the current Windows. Since Windows XP has been the longest lasting OS even after MS will drop support it's likely that a developer will continue supporting XP mainly because it works. There are probably so many Xp capable machines on ebay for someone to buy and this relates to the fact that desktop and laptop sales are declining, it's not just the tablet trends. And it's very likely that Win 7/8 is the second wave of long lasting OS's that will most likely determinant Microsoft's ability to try to get XP and Windows 7 users to upgrade to the latest OS. They know that many might just stick with what they got and that's the reason i believe they did Windows 8 for that reason. Developers can make money off of apps and (i think) MS will gain a share within that. Windows 8 in itself is an entirely new OS that is pretty much based off of the Windows Vista/7 UI.

There's a good number of users still on XP (i know of quite a few that are) & while i have noticed companies going to Windows 7 (i know my company did but because 7 has features they want that XP doesn't have) there are companies that are still sticking with XP. Microsoft is just preparing themselves for the potential problem that users won't see the need to upgrade and they are doing everything they can to encourage users to upgrade. However, i think what they are doing is a double edged sword, you got the removal of the start menu and a bunch of other features that users like so really when that happens then they will just want to stick with what they have. Despite loving Windows 7 i still think that it's a huge resource hike from XP even though later on down the road XP got pretty large so it really will depend with what Windows 9 and 10 will bring, whether or not today's i7's and 16GB will no longer be sufficient to browse the web. That and i think some people want to see the desktop die and everyone should move to tablets. It doesn't really make sense considering you still need a desktop to do various tasks. It's like trying to use a small screwdriver on a gigantic screw. I wouldn't go back to XP or Vista as my main OS but i still go to Xp for various things like printing or if i need to walk someone through a problem on an XP machine. Otherwise i don't use it much.
 
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