Microsoft Sides With Apple on HTML5 Video Future

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I'd be interested to hear feedback from people who have actually programmed in flash before? I haven't looked to closely at the HTML5 spec yet but those who have used flash know it is very different than the current HTML spec. Personally I think flash is a joy to use but more importantly it does so much more than just video (animation, web/standalone applications, great for rapid prototyping). I understand all the arguments about it not being an open standard and I hate the licensing fees but I just don't see HTML5 as being a magic bullet for all the things flash is so good at.
 
[citation][nom]omnimodis78[/nom]Behold the beginning of the end of Adobe Flash.[/citation]
Flash is useful for things besides video you know. You could more accurately state "this is the beginning of the end of video being dependant on/primarily using Flash"
 
Seems like the pot calling the kettle black, Flash is not open, Apple products have never been know for being open. Or secure or fault tolerant.

Apple blocks everything controls everything. It's their product their right. I do not like a company or product that want to limit my content or control me. If I want the iphone as a phone or play to flash video games or be a paper wait or like a deck of cards for my table to be level I will do that. That's why I do not own Apple products.
(I can picture Jobs himself walking in to my house and taking the iphone from underneath the table making it not level and saying our product will not support your table.)

 
I use Flash for presentations and web design and even though I work hard to male it look good and function properly I think I had spend some of my worst job hours fighting with it. But I depend on any app that allow me to work creating graphics and not coding that much. Of course, with Flash everyone needs at least basic coding.

Anyway, I don't care if html5 or some other becomes the standard and Flash disappears completely as long as someone develops good apps for graphic artists. I think this is an opportunity for someone else to shine besides Adobe. Time will tell if Adobe buys the best tools again.

But if HTML5 is only optimized for video coding then the pain will go on. Well, at least Adobe is optimizing Flash for GPU acceleration but again I am not sure most of Flash operations will speed up.

Then, will be possible to work with html5 inside Flash? I think it will but I am not an expert on this.
 
GSortino and omnimodis78 seem to be the only ones that get it! Flash started as a way to create more animated, interactive and interesting user experiences. One feature that grew was its video capability. Because the Flash plugin had such market penetration, it suddenly became the video player of choice for websites.

I find that websites using Silverlight for video seem to play the video better than Flash, and Quicktime is great as well for online video. But for some of the most unique website experiences, Flash still is unmatched. Many people hate Flash for this reason or that, but there's some websites out there that I think everyone would agree are very well done, and can't be done as well in any other web technology.

In the future Flash may be used less because video sites like YouTube decide to go the HTML5 route, which makes complete sense for them to do. But Flash will still be the choice for the more animated and unique web experiences. Silverlight would be its closest competitor.
 
I also use Flash and I can do things in it that are just not possible with HTML. Some people try with Ajax and Javascript, but it never compares.

And for Steve Jobs to say "Adobe's Flash products are 100% proprietary...." Seriously??? I'd say Apple is one of the most proprietary technology/software companies around. Adobe may require you to buy their software to use their tools which I think is completely fair, but plugins are 100% free and they want them to be out there. Steve Jobs is a greedy control freak who has become the opposite of what Apple claimed to be with their 1984 ad and their "Think Different" slogan. I will never buy an Apple product, especially with the way they currently do business.

If they didn't have Adobe, Apple would of been gone a long time ago.
 
[citation][nom]djtronika[/nom]Soooo, you guys are now okay with apple not liking flash. God I love it. Long live the sway of the human mind.[/citation]

Is the better alternative a staunch immutability in one's stance?
 
'Internet Explorer 9 will support HTML5 video playback encoded in H.264 only'

I rarely use IE [occasionally a few websites I visit have some extra content with scripts/code that doesn't 'play nice' with Firefox 3] and the few times I do is not because of flash/adobe player so I'm not overly fussed about this.

What does pique my interest is 'file size' and the potential that websites will just end up using more and more bandwidth [and with our low quotas and speeds compared to the rest of the world; us 'average' consumers in Australia will certainly feel the net getting slower and harder to use (without coughing up higher than our already ridiculous costs per month)].

Showing my lack of knowledge of H.264 here but another question is how 'secure' is it compared to flash? Right now flash [being a web standard atm.] is naturally being targeted for exploits but if H.264 became the new standard then what guarantee is there that someone won't find a few vulnerabilities in this 'new' standard?
Yeah; I know it's for 'video playback' but there are some vids in other formats [flash web banners, embedded quicktime movie files on websites] with some interesting scripts/exploits embedded in them [such as on x time goto y URL and download z file{virus etc}, do this on click...] so what guarantee is there that H.264 doesn't follow the rest of the dominoes?
Simply put; there will always be some group of people wanting to use any and all means to make you part with your money [H.264 will turn into yet another means of this].

I'm sure there are several more issues [potential or otherwise] but I thought I would highlight these to point out quite simply that using H.264 as a widely used common based file format is an untested technology when compared to the well tempered tool that is flash [regardless of my dislike for proprietary technology/closed and heavily ($$$) licensed software].
 
Has anyone every tried transcoding with HTML 5.0 currently, it is the worst engine ever. A key bonus with flash is that you can easily create your own work and animate it. There is a major loss without flash everywhere.
 
The problem is that Flash isn't just video. It also includes games and interactivity. The HTML5 canvas they're talking about is just video. So, right off the bat, it can't replace Flash.
 
[citation][nom]TA152H[/nom]Google owns Youtube, and Youtube is already moving towards HTML5. So, I don't think there are big issues there. The bottom line is, no one likes Flash. It's a proprietary product, that makes every company outside of Adobe a little uncomfortable. So, it's in the best interest of these companies to move from Flash to an open standard, and they will. It's already started, and progressing. It will happen.[/citation]
I agree, the web should not have a proprietary standard strangling it like Flash has done. Flash is going to go fast when it goes, watch.
Flashblock is my best friend. But I hope there will be new plug-ins to stop the annoying advertisments I am sure they will put everywhere in HTML5.
 
[citation][nom]rdawise[/nom]It's funny how Apple claims to be all for "open", but supports H.264. If they were for "open" they would support the Ogg codec.[/citation]No it isn't "funny". Ogg is not a credible alternative to H.264 at this point in time. [citation][nom]rdawise[/nom]Microsoft is probably trying to pressure Adobe to secure their programs. How many times have you seen Flash needing to be patched?[/citation] This is precisely why proprietary plug-ins are not a good idea. Apple has worked tirelessly with Adobe for years to try and address these security problems. Their patience has been exhausted. Timely patching is not guaranteed with closed source code. [citation][nom]rdawise[/nom]Interestingly enough, the note doesn't state anything about killing Flash support. It just states that it believes in the use of the same codec as Apple, not that Flash is bad. The title seems a bit misleading....[/citation] No one, not even Apple, is "killing" Flash support (on the desktop or laptops). Apple deems it too dated, buggy and resource hungry for the future...Especially on battery reliant hand-held devices. Progress usually comes at a cost. Adobe could have opened their code and had it accepted as a standard, like H.264, years ago, but they decided to sit on it. Who knows, they may yet make all the code open-source, but I wouldn't hold your breath. If you feel uncomfortable with change may I suggest you disconnect your router, get yourself a 1970's IBM PC and load DOS onto it.
 
Look if any of you want to see the formative steps of HTML 5 markup, download either:

Apple Safari (version 4+) http://www.apple.com/safari/
Google Chrome http://www.google.com/chrome
Microsoft Internet Explorer with Google Chrome Frame installed (Get Google Chrome Frame) http://www.google.com/chromeframe

Using one of those browsers Link to http://www.youtube.com/html5

If everyone who visits YouTube were to opt in to HTML 5 video the world could probably shut down a few dozen power stations. :)
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]The question why MS and Apple are blocking the use of Ogg Theora?[/citation]
Well I could be wrong but it could be because both Apple and Microsoft hold patents that H.264 uses and they would stand to make money if they start enforcing licenses and demanding royalties from it maybe?
 
I like HTML5 and all, but what about sites such as Newgrounds, which has been around for over a decade now, and the entire site is a flash user portal?
 
[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]The question why MS and Apple are blocking the use of Ogg Theora?[/citation][citation][nom]Camikazi[/nom]Well I could be wrong but it could be because both Apple and Microsoft hold patents that H.264 uses and they would stand to make money if they start enforcing licenses and demanding royalties from it maybe?[/citation] Apple are not blocking Ogg Theora, per se, the HTML 5 Tag allows calls to video. I can view Ogg videos in Safari here http://openvideo.dailymotion.com/gb

There are currently issues with Ogg, some to do with licensing, some with quality. It's not yet achieved prime-time but it is getting there. It's early days. Shed your prejudices.
 
I'm just going to echo the common sentiment - I suspect those who think flash will die quickly have never looked seriously into the casual/browser game market. I also suspect this is why Apple does not want to support flash on mobile devices. How do you sell games through an app store if people can go to a website where they can play hundreds of casual games for free? Why would mobile carriers want to support a system that would cost them money in regular bandwidth usage rather than a one-time download?

HTML 5 may have better usage for streaming video, but saying that Flash's purpose is for video streaming is like saying Microsoft Windows purpose is for word processing. The pie is much bigger than that.

Why do I want flash on my mobile device? Simple - ever try browsing the web with a smart phone? You'll inevitably hit a web site designed with Flash. Heck, I tried doing some research when buying a car and every car manufacturer's web site I went to didn't work because it was flashed based. Weather channel's web site started using flash animations for some graphics... my smart phone web browsing sucks because Flash seems to be growing. Sure, kill the video - but do you think everyone is going to instantly redesign their web sites and browser game manufacturers will walk away from their cash cow? I don't think so.
 
Good, anything that kicks Adobe out of the market is good. Don't like to use software from them, as many of you know, Adobe Reader nowadays is a spyware that scans your system after "alternative" copies of their products (like photoshop) and screw with the register. This happened with a friend of mine that didn't know Paint.NET and downloaded photoshop to edit their pics. We had to format his rig. After that, no Adobe in my rig. But flash is still in it, adobe air also (gog downloader that uses air that starts an update rotine even if you don't select auto update, like Adobe Reader) and I don't like it a bit.
Let's talk ethics and respect? Using software without paying is wrong but imbue a spyware in a software that was used by everyone to scan your rigs after piracy is far worst. So, I moved to foxit, and really are looking forward to new software that replaces flash, air and everything from Adobe, printers drivers included.
 
Good, anything that kicks Adobe out of the market is good. Don't like to use software from them, as many of you know, Adobe Reader nowadays is a spyware that scans your system after "alternative" copies of their products (like photoshop) and screw with the register. This happened with a friend of mine that didn't know Paint.NET and downloaded photoshop to edit their pics. We had to format his rig. After that, no Adobe in my rig. But flash is still in it, adobe air also (gog downloader that uses air that starts an update rotine even if you don't select auto update, like Adobe Reader) and I don't like it a bit.
Let's talk ethics and respect? Using software without paying is wrong but imbue a spyware in a software that was used by everyone to scan your rigs after piracy is far worst. So, I moved to foxit, and really are looking forward to new software that replaces flash, air and everything from Adobe, printers drivers included.
 
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