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Mozilla: EU's Win 7 Browser Ballot is Favoritism

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While it is nice that so many people personally feel that Microsoft should be allowed to include only IE in their OS, it is important that the EU found them in violation and is requiring Microsoft to remedy the situation.

What is at question is if the ballot system adequately complies with the EU ruling or not. Mozilla says it does not comply, so the EU courts need to decide if Mozilla's reasoning is correct.

Personally I am a little disappointed that so many people feel that a company's desire for profit should override regional laws, that a company found in violation of laws should flex monopolistic muscle to coerce governments into compliance with their desires, and that a US-centric vision of how business should be applied unilaterally (while the US does things like choose to not participate as an equal in the International Criminal Court). While not all posters seem of this bent, there is a disturbing number of posts that seem to support this highly distorted world view of US domination/superiority.
 
Microsoft CHOSE to integrate IE into the Windows Update process, they could just as easily have given Windows Update it's own ability to access the internet without piggy-backing IE. Microsoft employs about 1 billion developers worldwide, don't tell me that they don't have the resources to write a little extra code...
 
[citation][nom]audioee[/nom]I think MS should be able to charge all the other browser companies for advertising their products on the ballot screen. [/citation]

uhmm,.. They don't charge? Then I WANT IN! How do I get MY browser on the ballot screen. Can I sue them?
 
[citation][nom]MDillenbeck[/nom]While it is nice that so many people personally feel that Microsoft should be allowed to include only IE in their OS, it is important that the EU found them in violation and is requiring Microsoft to remedy the situation.What is at question is if the ballot system adequately complies with the EU ruling or not. Mozilla says it does not comply, so the EU courts need to decide if Mozilla's reasoning is correct.Personally I am a little disappointed that so many people feel that a company's desire for profit should override regional laws, that a company found in violation of laws should flex monopolistic muscle to coerce governments into compliance with their desires, and that a US-centric vision of how business should be applied unilaterally (while the US does things like choose to not participate as an equal in the International Criminal Court). While not all posters seem of this bent, there is a disturbing number of posts that seem to support this highly distorted world view of US domination/superiority.[/citation]
This is ridiculous, as others have posted, this isn't about politics. So we're supposed to just bend over and take it from the government huh?

Personally I'd find it absolutely hillarious if Microsoft decided to stop selling Windows in the EU period. I know they won't do it because of missed profits, but nobody would have a clue what to do. Like the average joe is going to go out and buy a Linux machine and know how to use it.
 
[citation][nom]former_dot_net_dev[/nom]Microsoft CHOSE to integrate IE into the Windows Update process, they could just as easily have given Windows Update it's own ability to access the internet without piggy-backing IE. Microsoft employs about 1 billion developers worldwide, don't tell me that they don't have the resources to write a little extra code...[/citation]
Why would they not use IE to piggyback to the net?

You act as if Microsoft should have a contingency for every potential issue with their OS. So should they remove Media Player, automatic Printer drivers and DVD playback? I mean Winamp isn't getting their fair share.

Even if you do believe this why the singled out concentration on Microsoft? Why not Apple? They do far worse and get away with it.
 
I am so very quickly losing all respect for Mozilla. I have been using FireFox for years, but this is just ridiculous. They should be satisfied with the fact that Microsoft is doing this in the first place as free advertising for them, nevermind bitch and complain til it's exactly how they want it. Why should one company have to advertise another's competing products? It's absolutely retarded, especially since I've never seen a FireFox box in Best Buy, or a commercial telling me to switch from IE.
 
[citation][nom]valcron[/nom]Then have Windows update run on separate software unrelated to IE thus removing the need for IE to be on the system.[/citation]It does, or at least it does in XP and I think in Vista. While "Microsoft Update" will only run in IE (and I don't have a problem with that), the "Automatic Updates" feature runs as an independent process. If that has changed in Vista/Win7, then you can ignore this post.

Furthermore, you can use any modern browser to download updates and apply them manually. That's less convenient for the home/small business user, but it's one of the preferred methods for larger installations, download once, then deploy internally.

I'm not a MS fan and I hate IE (I'll take Firefox, Safari, Opera, or Chrome over IE whenever possible), but Mitchell Baker is wrong on this one.
 
What I can not understand about all this is how unfair the laws are against Microsoft. How is it that Macs can have their media player installed, their browser installed, tell who and who can not make software for their system, but Microsoft their own special rules to follow. This all about making it fair for competitors to make products, but is it fair to hinder one company against its competitors? Microsoft must make such a vastly superior product to everything else you wonder why other products are on the market in the first place. It would be like telling Chrysler since they are doing bad to sell their cars with as many options and colors as you like to make a sell but Toyota since you are the number one car maker all your cars have to be white with not options. You want a different color get a third party to paint it. You want power windows, get a third party to install. You want a radio, you have to get that somewhere else. You get the idea.
 
I think EU is wrong with this and is treatinhg MS unfairly, it is their product and they are not blocking 3rd party software at all, as to "While Baker does concede that for security reasons, it is better to include IE than have an out of date and dead piece of software on your computer, he argues that there should be a few safeguards in place to ensure IE does not use the automatic update process to ask for permission to become the default browser.", last time I checked Mozilla Firefox asked me if I wantied it to be my default browser, so how does he explains this?, for him it´s ok that FF ask this but not if it is IE?okay.....
 
I don't see why the EU is up M$'s ass about bundling in IE. Who cares what it comes with, that shouldn't be illegal, EU are just a bunch of fucking wankers.
 
I still can't believe the EU even thinks that its not fair for the company who designed windows (ie MICROSOFT) can't have their own web browser on the system. There isn't anything stopping you in windows from using something else to browse the web. If you don't want to use IE and think it's not fair to have it integrated into windows, DON'T USE WINDOWS.
 
Mozilla, if you make your own OS, then you can bundle FF as the only browser. Apple does this too. Bundling your own products together is not a crime. You simply don't force your competition to bundle your browser too. Market FF more! Make your own OS! Linux already mostly uses FF as default anyway. This is completely ridiculous and immature.
 
[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]The average joe doesn't know how to use a Windows machine either.[/citation]
Sadly true. Most "average" people are morons when it comes to computers. Even true for quite a few of my friends (although I have done my part to pass my knowledge on to them)
 
STFU! its Microsoft's software, they can do what ever the hell they want with it! they are not even forcing us to use their stuff like apple does with alot of things! btw, does osx give you a ballot page? what about linux? what about all those linux distros that come default with firefox?? yeah! thats right! STFU!

if microsoft is monopolizing the OS market THEN GO AFTER THEM FOR THAT! don't just give up on that, let them monopolize the OS industry and then go after them for retarded stuff like this!!!
 
A Linux machine is actually ideal for the average user if you install it for them. Install a non-*buntu distribution, make the root password something that they'll never guess and they'll have alot of trouble screwing up their computer because they won't be able to do any administrative tasks. Sure they can still delete their files and whinge about it, but they can do that regardless of the OS.

Of course I wouldn't want to put those who charge $400/hour for "technical support" out of business so I suppose allowing most users to use Windows and screw up their computer in such a trivial manner is ok.
 
[citation][nom]Matt87_50[/nom]what about linux? what about all those linux distros that come default with firefox?? yeah! thats right! STFU![/citation]
You must be retarded. Linux distributions effectively are the ballot. Choose a distribution that doesn't use Firefox.
 
The ballot process would confuse the average user.... So we should just remove it altogether and make them have to go get a browser on their own.

wat? How would that fix the problem AT ALL? It'd just make it worse!

People always rip on MS for being aggresive, especially with IE, but the more I read about this, the more I think firefox is just as bad....
 
Haha god i really wish microsoft would have said FCUK YOU god dammit that's it no browsers for you and well just ship Windows without browsers but shove an extra CD in it that has Internet explorer with some other stuff labeled as "Extra programs" if you want it. THEN WHAT EU?!?! gonna complain that they can't put extra cd's in their box?
 
Screw Firefox....IE8 is perfectly fast and standards compliant. And if it comes pre-installed, part of MS-update all the better. I don't give enough of a crap about my web browser to care what I use. As long as it works well that's all I ask. I've used other browsers but still find myself usign IE the most, it's just easy.
 
Honestly, the only real solution is to have IE as the default on first install, but allow it to be completely removed (instead of just having the shortcuts removed) so that the user can decide on whether they want it or not. Same for all of the other non-essential software bundled with any OS. It's there where you install it, but afterwards you can decide on what you do and don't want.

That way, you have less programs you never use that are just chewing up hard drive space, and you still bought the OS so the company involved still gets their money.
 
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