Nagging Problem

[gwydion_black]

OK first of all I will give you the specs of the PC build so you all know what I am dealing with.

AMD Athlon 64x2 2.7GHz, 65 watt processor
Biostar Tforce TF720 Motherboard
OCZ 2GB Gold DDR2800
Linkworld 3131G-C8815U Case w/ Generic 430 watt powersupply

That is the only specs that matters. Long story short, I put the model together, ran spot on, installed XP Pro, had it running in the shop over night to make sure it worked fine, customer picked up the next day. Called me back saying the monitor wasn't working so I had them bring it back in.

I could not get other monitors to work on it either and after numerous tests I figured the on-board video went, got a replacement and started over.

Replacement went in, started it up, no video. Same error and no post noises. Everything seems to be starting up find. I tested the power supply and rechecked the CPU and memory, all seemed fine, so I figured another flubbed mobo.

So I change mobos and try again. This time I go with:

ECS NFORCE9M-A(1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8100

I got the part installed it, same deal. After doing a bit of research I figured that maybe the voltage or something was off on the power supply. Not having any decent wattage in the shop, I went out and bought another 430w, this time Thermaltake. Installed it and same deal, nothing.

I decided that it must be a grounding issue or something, so I removed the motherboard from the case, plugged in the video card and wired it all up. Lo and behold, it started up fine, yet with no post sounds.

I got to the post screen where it of course informed me I had no keyboard connected, and my hard drive or nothing was not either, so I shut it down and tried resetting it into the case.

Once that was done I started up and nothing, same thing again. I tried removing it again to make sure, but not I can't get it to signal the monitor at all. No post sounds, everything seems to start up fine, but no visual.

Keep in mind, on the first motherboard, the video was on board and I tried installing a known working video card and it did nothing.

The second one was using the known working video card and that was the one where I did get visual that one time.

I have tried it now, seated in the case and out with both motherboards and I am still at square one the original problem.

I've thought about the CPU being bad, but seeing as how it seemed to want to start up fine that one time, I still want to attribute it to grounding issues or something electrical.


Any help or leads would be much appreciated. I can't hold this customer up too much longer

 

[g3force]

OK first of all I will give you the specs of the PC build so you all know what I am dealing with.

AMD Athlon 64x2 2.7GHz, 65 watt processor
Biostar Tforce TF720 Motherboard
OCZ 2GB Gold DDR2800
Linkworld 3131G-C8815U Case w/ Generic 430 watt powersupply

That is the only specs that matters. Long story short, I put the model together, ran spot on, installed XP Pro, had it running in the shop over night to make sure it worked fine, customer picked up the next day. Called me back saying the monitor wasn't working so I had them bring it back in.

I could not get other monitors to work on it either and after numerous tests I figured the on-board video went, got a replacement and started over.

Replacement went in, started it up, no video. Same error and no post noises. Everything seems to be starting up find. I tested the power supply and rechecked the CPU and memory, all seemed fine, so I figured another flubbed mobo.

So I change mobos and try again. This time I go with:

ECS NFORCE9M-A(1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8100

I got the part installed it, same deal. After doing a bit of research I figured that maybe the voltage or something was off on the power supply. Not having any decent wattage in the shop, I went out and bought another 430w, this time Thermaltake. Installed it and same deal, nothing.

I decided that it must be a grounding issue or something, so I removed the motherboard from the case, plugged in the video card and wired it all up. Lo and behold, it started up fine, yet with no post sounds.

I got to the post screen where it of course informed me I had no keyboard connected, and my hard drive or nothing was not either, so I shut it down and tried resetting it into the case.

Once that was done I started up and nothing, same thing again. I tried removing it again to make sure, but not I can't get it to signal the monitor at all. No post sounds, everything seems to start up fine, but no visual.

Keep in mind, on the first motherboard, the video was on board and I tried installing a known working video card and it did nothing.

The second one was using the known working video card and that was the one where I did get visual that one time.

I have tried it now, seated in the case and out with both motherboards and I am still at square one the original problem.

I've thought about the CPU being bad, but seeing as how it seemed to want to start up fine that one time, I still want to attribute it to grounding issues or something electrical.


Any help or leads would be much appreciated. I can't hold this customer up too much longer

Whats the power supply included with the system? The first thing I would check is if the voltages have any outstanding deviances (with a voltmeter, of course). I also wouldn't rule out some form of electrical short to the case. Check if there is any component that's grounding itself to the case. If that doesn't yield anything, the next step I'd take is check every component in another system and see if any cooked off from a short/bad power input/etc.

 

[gwydion_black]

I have no voltmeter handy, sadly, but I do have two new power supplies that both give the same outcome. I did check the memory and the video card on another system and they registered fine. I do not, however, have another AM2 system to check the processor in, so that is really the only thing that I can't check 100%.

The thing that gets me is why the system booted fine when completely independent of the case, yet I can't create the same results again no matter what I do. And before suggesting, I have reset the CMOS on both boards just in case.

I will try to mess with the case a little bit to try to stimulate something. Any other leads/help is much appreciated. Thanks g3force.

 

[g3force]

I have no voltmeter handy, sadly, but I do have two new power supplies that both give the same outcome. I did check the memory and the video card on another system and they registered fine. I do not, however, have another AM2 system to check the processor in, so that is really the only thing that I can't check 100%.

The thing that gets me is why the system booted fine when completely independent of the case, yet I can't create the same results again no matter what I do. And before suggesting, I have reset the CMOS on both boards just in case.

I will try to mess with the case a little bit to try to stimulate something. Any other leads/help is much appreciated. Thanks g3force.

Interesting.. That means either the CPU or mainboard is faulty. Do you have a cheap AM2 processor which you could try popping in?

EDIT: I'm going to be out for awhile, and therefor can't respond to any messages you submitted for maybe an hour. Sorry.

 

[hundredislandsboy]

Strange one. So far the problem occurs only when the power supply and motherboard are mounted in the case? Aha! It's the case. Seriously, my main suspect is the PSU. Are you running through a surge protector? Something in the power is spiking and frying your components. At last count you've gone thru 3 motherboards, 2 PSUs and still have not isolated the problem. Are those multi-voltage PSU with 110 - 220 switch or are they auto switching?

 

[aford10]

I think you have more than 1 problem.

It sounds like you've changed boards a few times with the same results. So I would suggest the CPU. That can cause the failed POST (no beeps). Even with a failed cpu, the psu can still power the fans, making it seem like it is powering up. That fact that it tried to power up when you removed the board from the case means you probably also have a grounding issue. I would start with a different CPU on the same board, outside the case, and go from there.

 

[gwydion_black]

OK the plot thickens fellows. I removed everything from the case including the PSU and have the mobo freemounted. I am currently using the ECS one with a working graphics card.

I tried booting it up again for kicks and what do you know, I got signal and it powered up fine til it said No Boot Device.

So I shut it down, plugged in the sata hard drive, started it up and got nothing. I shut it down for a few minutes, decided to remount the CPU fan, and I started it up. Worked fine, booted right to XP, and installed the drivers for the new mobo and video card.

Now I am going to let it run for awhile while I step out of the shop, but I am scared that once I turn it off it won't start back up again. I also brought it down to one memory stick, but it worked some of the time and some not with both sticks in, so I don't think it is a memory issue.

Anywho, right now it is the processor, the mobo, the one gig of memory, and the video card, running fine on XP, out of the case.

If anyone has any more ideas, post away. Thanks so far guys.

(The power supplies both have 110 - 220 switch, but both are at 110. And yes, I am through a surge protector. Could the be the problem? I'll check back when I get back in later. Thanks again guys.

 

[gwydion_black]

OK so I shut it down with that exact setup, waited for about a minute or so and started it back up. No video signal yet again.

Any ideas?

 

[rosenberg1979]

I think it might be time to call a witch doctor, you are totally cursed.
Think Occam's razor here and start coming out of the wall all plugs and cables good? how did taking the surge protector off work? Did you check your home outlet for a good ground? You'd be surprised how often that third wire is left out.

Try to only address one problem at a time here, from the sound of your post you've changes everything but the cpu, and that is probably where one problem lies.

But, and i can not stress this one enough when trouble shooting, make sure that when you start changing things around you make sure everything is connected right and tight. I know that you start to get flustered then forget to plug in an stata cable, or do not plug in a molex connector tight, or do not push a graphics card in tight. Then it seems like the whole thing is going down the toilet.

 

[gwydion_black]

OK wow. Well, I had the thing running over night, ran fine. Installed the drivers for the new mobo and graphics card, and let her go. When I came in the morning she was stilling purring as sweet as a kitten. Keep in mind this was out of the case but still using the case power button.

So this must means that all the hardware components are in good shape. I had absolutely not problems once it was running, and both power supplies are tested and good, so smooth there.

So i tried to turn it off and start it back up, nothing. I mean, it starts but no video signal. It just isn't sending the signal for the monitor to go "pop". After a few more tries it did work again, so I figured, one more time I am going to put it in the case and go from there.

I triple checked everything and even put the cover on just in case, started it up, no visual yet again. I shut it down once more, wait like 30 seconds and then his the button, WALA! Starts up perfectly. I double check the hardware in XP and everything is fine still. I even did a warm restart and it went fine. I decided one more time to shut it down and try it again.

Same reaction. No visual. But then I got to thinking of the one thing I have yet to replace or even try. The one subject I know virtually nothing about - the power button.

Is it possible that the power button on the case is malfunctioned, so that it only works correctly if pressed the correct way? Could the power button possibly be my big bad culprit?

 

[aford10]

If you hit the power button, and the fans start spinning, it's probably not the power switch.

 

[jrhilsch]

This is probably a noob statement, and I've never tried to fix anyone's problems before, but I read somewhere here on tom's that if you screw your motherboard into the case too tight it will cause some sections not to boot properly. You said you were building in a shop, so I'm figuring this is common knowledge. It just seems to me that you only had issues while booting inside the case. Maybe try loosening the screws...

 

[gwydion_black]

OK, I have built dozens of computers and I've never had this much frustration on a single machine.

I got a new case in to see if that would work. Lo- and behold it didn't, however I am not managing to get a beep code out of the thing. It is an infinitely repeating short beep. The problem is, it is an AMI Bios as far as I can tell, and they don't have anything about infinite beeps.

If it were an IBM Bios, I could understand, but not with the AMI. Perhaps I will try the other motherboard to see what I can get.

If there are any more suggestions then please let me know. This thing is a zombie and any more money spent on it is putting me in the hole.

Thanks for everything so far guys.