Need p4 Core 2 duo motherboard

[ricksparts66]

I am no computer genius so I am turning to you for help.Situation is just started a new job not even making enough to cover my bills so anything I buy is more than I can afford,that being said. I have 23 old computers in various states of disrepair most are p4s and one is a dell optiplex 745 with a core2 duo I need a suggestion for a common inexpensive mother board that will fit standard mid tower cases and support p4 core2 duo and hopefully be upgradable to a better processor in the future. The core 2 duo in the dell I am gambling is good, the 745 is dead dead dead and the motherboard and power supply are dell proprietary, I want a mother board I can use in one of my many generic cases with my many generic power supplies and sticks of ram. Want to use the coreduo,want to able to fall back on p4 just in case the core 2 is dead because I have several p4s and want too be able to upgrade in the future. I do not game I only use the computer for project free tv,hulu,dyds.mp3s,email,and craigslist . Any advice on this build would be greatly appreciated. Or if someone can help me get the dell going that would be great for now. It will not power up anything, the psu doesn't even spin it's fan, I can jump the psu with a paperclip and it starts its fan,There is absolutely nothing plugged in no cards no monitor no ram,no keyboard or mouse,nothing it will not start the psu so I am assuming motherboard . I even pulled the cmos battery to let bios reset. nothing changed

 

[Lutfij]

Which version of the Dell OptiPlex 745 do you have? There are 4 versions.

If the PSU is proprietary then the connections to the motherboard will also be proprietary meaning you'd also need to invest in an aftermarket PSU outside of an aftermarket chassis.

With regards to your PSU's paper clip test working out, please keep in mind that you're advised to have a fan or an HDD to simulate a load on the PSU. The PSU might power up with a paper clip test but it doesn't not indicate how much useful power it can output to the entire system. In that respect, I think if you sourced a replacement PSU for the prebuilt you have right now, you should be good to go.

 

[ricksparts66]

Which version of the Dell OptiPlex 745 do you have? There are 4 versions.

If the PSU is proprietary then the connections to the motherboard will also be proprietary meaning you'd also need to invest in an aftermarket PSU outside of an aftermarket chassis.

With regards to your PSU's paper clip test working out, please keep in mind that you're advised to have a fan or an HDD to simulate a load on the PSU. The PSU might power up with a paper clip test but it doesn't not indicate how much useful power it can output to the entire system. In that respect, I think if you sourced a replacement PSU for the prebuilt you have right now, you should be good to go.

 

[ricksparts66]

What I was trying to say is the psu does nothing when I hit the computer power button the psu fan doesn't even start,but it does power up with a paper clip,so I am thinking the motherboard isn't signaling the psu.can anyone think of something else I should check I am assumming the motherboard is dead.If I have to buy a motherboard I want to buy one that will allow a fresh build using as much non proprietary stuff as I already since I have 22 other cases and power supplies to choose from and capable of running a core 2 duo a p4 or a better processor in the future.I do not want to fi

 

[BFG-9000]

The best chipset for Core 2 is undoubtedly P45/G45 but it does not officially support P4s. In nearly every case just about any aftermarket board should include the correct microcode for netburst and can adjust its VRM to the higher voltages though.

The last chipset to officially support P4 is P965 which does not officially support 45nm Core 2. Some manufacturers like Gigabyte qualified their boards for this themselves, but all P965 boards do support 65nm Core 2.

Note that the motherboard is by far the most expensive component. In this age where you can buy a 3.0GHz Xeon pre-modded to fit in socket 775 for under $14 shipped, it makes little sense to spend much on a motherboard just to use your old CPUs that presently sell for $1.99 shipped.

It's pretty hard to kill a Dell completely, and the Optiplex 745 is infamous for having bad caps so I would suggest watching some Youtube videos to see how to recap them. I mean you have a lot of them and it sounds like everything else in them is fine, including the PSUs.

 

[ricksparts66]

well thank you I'll look again for blown up caps I didn't see any the first time I looked but will check again. Thank you.The reason we were working around the processor I have is the core 2 is more than I even need and figured I could buy some generic run of the mill motherboard off ebay for 20. shipped. I could put it in one of my generic cases and no longer be strapped to dell proprietary stuff.I found lots of 20. shipped boards some with proccesors but I don't know enough about boards to pick one. I almost bought one off Ebay I would have bought it if the guy hadn't got back to me and told me it was hp propritary. So if I get it running again as a core2 later can I just pop in the3.0 ghz Xeon as an upgrade?

 

[BFG-9000]

Caps don't have to look blown up to be bad--they can dry out too.

The Dell 745 is not on the compatibility list while the 755 is reported to work with only the 3xxx Xeons. The Dells have the advantage of being able to activate Windows automatically without even going online.

For around that price range you should be shopping at the scrappers where we send all our e-waste. Note they do provide a DOA warranty just like eBay does for non as-is items.

For the really cheap boards you should know that i945 chipset usually only supports P4 and 65nm C2D (no quads), G31 chipset is limited to 3.25GB usable memory and G41 cannot really be overclocked past 340MHz x 4 FSB. All three are usually paired with ICH7 which does not support AHCI.

At the moment, the P43 chipset Asus P5QL SE for $26.88 looks the most interesting, and all of the other P5QL models are listed as Xeon compatible. That's essentially a P45 chipset that's only certified for DDR2-800 instead of 1066, and with the $4 off is only $22.88 shipped. They have 993 boards in stock.

Note that it only has 2 DIMM slots so fitting 8GB would be quite expensive. If you needed more than 4GB it could make more sense to pay $45.99 for a P45 chipset Asus P5Q SE (or the Plus), which is $10 more per extra DIMM slot. However that is well into the price range of much more modern socket 1155 and 1150 boards.

 

[ricksparts66]

I do not know the difference between DDR2-800 or 1066 I got along great with the core 2 duo and 2gig of ram for what I do. Watch project free tv,netflix etc, ebay craigslist and email that's it,I don't even play solitare on it So the ASUS P5Ql SE for 26.88 and a 3 GHZ xeon out to get the job done,will it fit in run of the mill non proprietary cases and use common power supplies where do I buy? Thank you so much.

 

[BFG-9000]

Yep, takes a standard ATX PSU and fits into any ATX case. Try to find a couple 2GB sticks of DDR2 in your Dells, hopefully with a sticker that says 800 or PC2-6400 on it somewhere.

DDR2 was commonly available in different speeds: 533, 667, 800 and 1066. You don't need 1066 with a quad because they can't run at as high FSB as duals. But quads will almost always run at 400 FSB so at least 800 RAM is recommended--this is because for some reason Intel decided that unlike the P4, for Core 2 the RAM cannot run slower than 2x the FSB.

I would get this modified x5460 for $13.99 (click the link). Note it has the extra notches cut into it so the 775 socket does not need to be modified to fit the 771 processor--just be aware it must be rotated 90 degrees from usual (it's really obvious which way it goes--just make sure the hand-cut notches fit into your socket's tabs instead of the factory ones).

Then get the $22.88 P5QL SE here. You should flash a BIOS that contains Xeon microcodes or it will use the errata-filled instruction set built-into the chip--you can get a modified BIOS here. Be aware that the modified BIOS drops the P4 microcodes to make space for the Xeon ones, but just like the Xeon the P4 will also boot and run without any external microcodes. At least well enough to flash a BIOS.

If you have only 667 RAM (PC2-5300) then the stock speed of 3.16GHz (faster than a Q9650) is likely the best option. If you have 800 RAM then just change the FSB to 400 and the vCore to +0.075 to +0.1v and run at 3.8GHz. At that speed it will use ~160w but be just as fast as a modern low power dual-core mobile i3 (u-series <30w) for just about any office task. That is what 10 years of progress buys you-->80% less power consumption to allow putting what was previously desktop power into a thin and light notebook.

 

[ricksparts66]

I looked at all the links. Awesome!Thank you so much.I do not know how to change the bios. or change the FSB and V core are there tutorials? My expierience has only been loading operating systems swapping out hard drives and motherboards but always replacing like items with like items. I get something thats dead find the obvious bad part and get an identical or very similiar replacement part. Will that xenon work in any 775 board and will that asus run a p4 or core2? What kind of processor is a xenon is it dual core? I am going to tear apart some of my atx's tomorrow inventory what i have vs. what I need and think I'll be ordering everything on tuesday thanks again. You rock!!!

 

[ricksparts66]

Still waiting for the processor to get here.Looking through my collection of junk I found a good GIGABYTE ga965p ds3 and 2 sticks of corsair xms2 ddr2 800mhz. Will this support the Xeon processor? Do I just fire this thing up on a core duo then go to that link and save the bios to a temp folder then swap in my xeon processor and load the bios?

 

[BFG-9000]

Yes, it will support a Xeon if you add microcodes to the BIOS, but there are some reports the half-multipliers can be wonky on it so you may have to run the X5460 at 9x instead of 9.5x. A Xeon without half-multipliers like the E5450 or X5450 should have no issues.

You flash the BIOS by hitting "End" on bootup instead of the "Delete" which enters the BIOS settings. That launches the built-in Q-flash BIOS flashing utility. It can only read a BIOS file on USB stick (<64GB, Fat32), CD or HDD (also Fat32). You should be able to flash this with either a Core 2 or Xeon installed as it will boot up with either, but as you already have the board and Core 2, may as well do it now to make sure everything works.

If you are too lazy to integrate the microcode yourself, someone else did it here with the beta F15 BIOS and has it available for download.

On that board and chipset, overclocking and memory performance is decent provided you have any board rev. later than 1.0 as that's when they went to 6-phase voltage regulators.
9 x 367 = 3.3GHz
9 x 400 = 3.6GHz
9 x 417 = 3.75GHz