- Status
Fulgurant
Distinguished
- Nov 29, 2012
- 585
- 2
- 19,065
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]Yeah that was how I felt as well... my 7970s wound up paying for my entire rig (~$2k) and turning a $1500 profit as well... I'm a little bummed I won't be able to do that with whatever I purchase next .[/citation]
I find this comment interesting. Do you have info to suggest that the next generation of AMD cards won't give you comparable/better bitcoin performance?
Or are you just saying that you plan to upgrade before the next-gen AMD cards launch?
Honestly curious here; it isn't a rhetorical or a pointed question.
I find this comment interesting. Do you have info to suggest that the next generation of AMD cards won't give you comparable/better bitcoin performance?
Or are you just saying that you plan to upgrade before the next-gen AMD cards launch?
Honestly curious here; it isn't a rhetorical or a pointed question.
ubercake
Splendid
- Oct 28, 2009
- 7,270
- 5
- 29,815
I know it's wrong to spend that much money on something to game, but I'm tempted. That Nvidia, she's a temptress. I could pick up a couple, but spending more than a grand on video for gaming purposes to me just seems irresponsible. I could sell my two 680s to beat the difference and it would be just like buying one 780 and keep me easily under $1000? I'm still torn.
AMD needs to really get their act together and pounce on this opportunity. They need to offer something without the microstutter/runts/drops problem that drives the price down.
AMD needs to really get their act together and pounce on this opportunity. They need to offer something without the microstutter/runts/drops problem that drives the price down.
Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
- 37,035
- 12
- 89,965
Fulgurant, the issue is that ASIC miners are beginning to come online. Some time this year, possibly by later this summer, they will render GPU mining obsolete. I'm hoping my HD7970 pays for itself before then.
Keep in mind that nVidia cards have never been a miners' choice. For example, a GTX650Ti is visibly better than a HD7770 for games, but the HD7770 beats the stuffing out of the GTX650Ti at bitmining (200+MHash/s vs. <50MHash/s).
My HD7970 does ~650MHash/s. The least of the ASIC miners due out is supposedly able to do 4.5GHash/s; so AMD's graphics cards could double their performance, and still be irrelevant for mining.
Keep in mind that nVidia cards have never been a miners' choice. For example, a GTX650Ti is visibly better than a HD7770 for games, but the HD7770 beats the stuffing out of the GTX650Ti at bitmining (200+MHash/s vs. <50MHash/s).
My HD7970 does ~650MHash/s. The least of the ASIC miners due out is supposedly able to do 4.5GHash/s; so AMD's graphics cards could double their performance, and still be irrelevant for mining.
Interesting stuff, though.In the UK the price difference of the 7970 and GTX680/GTX780 are even bigger. The 7970Ghz is found at £300-330 while the GTX780 today is at a minimum of £570. Thats about £250, or nearly double the price of a 7970GHz. LoL, it actually makes nVidia look very bad in front of UK customers.
06yfz450ridr
Honorable
- Nov 28, 2012
- 2,610
- 5
- 13,460
"When Nvidia launched the GeForce GTX 680, AMD was still asking something like $550 for the Radeon HD 7970, and the GK104-based board kicked it right in the tail. It was faster, cooler, quieter, and smaller than AMD’s flagship. I recommended the 680 without hesitation"
not sure how the 680 is better, the 7970 ghz edition, plays better at higher res then the 680 esp with aa etc and is cheaper. Must be a nvidia fan boy
not sure how the 680 is better, the 7970 ghz edition, plays better at higher res then the 680 esp with aa etc and is cheaper. Must be a nvidia fan boy
17seconds
Champion
- Jul 27, 2010
- 10,584
- 4
- 51,965
The only way the price looks bad is if people don't buy it. All you need to do is look at the numbers:
Nvidia outsells AMD nearly 2 to 1 in the performance video card market.
The GTX 670 alone has outsold both the 7950 and 7970 combined.
The GTX 680, as overpriced as it is, has sold the exact number as the entry-level 7850, which is AMD best-selling video card.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
Nvidia outsells AMD nearly 2 to 1 in the performance video card market.
The GTX 670 alone has outsold both the 7950 and 7970 combined.
The GTX 680, as overpriced as it is, has sold the exact number as the entry-level 7850, which is AMD best-selling video card.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
Raheel Hasan
Honorable
- Apr 17, 2013
- 1,019
- 0
- 11,660
wiyosaya
Distinguished
- Apr 12, 2006
- 915
- 1
- 18,990
I am going to echo the comments that this card is what the 680 should have been, and nVidia may have shot themselves in the foot with the 680 and the changes that made the 680's DP compute performance less than that of the 580 as we see once again from the results in this article.
I really think that what nVidia was trying to do is push DP compute to the pro market, and thus the exorbitant prices for the Kepler based Teslas. My guess is that the Kepler Teslas did not fly off the shelves as nVidia hoped. If this is the case, Titan may not be a bad Kepler Tesla, and it could actually be the same chip that is used in the high-end Kepler Teslas except that it has some functionality deliberately turned off in an effort to salvage chip sales that otherwise are sitting on the shelf. The problem being that in order not to offend those who spent megabucks on Kepler Teslas, Titan was priced astronomically.
Now along comes the 780 with functionality slightly less than that of Titan, and it makes me wonder even more whether nVidia is just killing of parts of the Kepler Tesla chips in order to salvage chip sales.
This is just speculation, of course, however, it is not outside the realm of possibility as I see it. nVidia most likely would never admit that they are killing functionality on good parts in order to salvage chip sales and not offend those who have bought the high-end Tesla cards. Doing so would be customer relations suicide.
When I bought a new 580 a year ago at $399, it was a value buy for my needs (DP compute performance, among other things, was important to me) in comparison to what I would have paid for a 680.
I really do think that nVidia overestimated what the market would bear with the 680 and Kepler Teslas, and the Titan and the 780 are attempts to find the market again. Perhaps in a year or two, nVidia will regain its sanity. Until then, I'll pass on these cards unless I can find one in the used market in a year or two at a reasonable price.
I really think that what nVidia was trying to do is push DP compute to the pro market, and thus the exorbitant prices for the Kepler based Teslas. My guess is that the Kepler Teslas did not fly off the shelves as nVidia hoped. If this is the case, Titan may not be a bad Kepler Tesla, and it could actually be the same chip that is used in the high-end Kepler Teslas except that it has some functionality deliberately turned off in an effort to salvage chip sales that otherwise are sitting on the shelf. The problem being that in order not to offend those who spent megabucks on Kepler Teslas, Titan was priced astronomically.
Now along comes the 780 with functionality slightly less than that of Titan, and it makes me wonder even more whether nVidia is just killing of parts of the Kepler Tesla chips in order to salvage chip sales.
This is just speculation, of course, however, it is not outside the realm of possibility as I see it. nVidia most likely would never admit that they are killing functionality on good parts in order to salvage chip sales and not offend those who have bought the high-end Tesla cards. Doing so would be customer relations suicide.
When I bought a new 580 a year ago at $399, it was a value buy for my needs (DP compute performance, among other things, was important to me) in comparison to what I would have paid for a 680.
I really do think that nVidia overestimated what the market would bear with the 680 and Kepler Teslas, and the Titan and the 780 are attempts to find the market again. Perhaps in a year or two, nVidia will regain its sanity. Until then, I'll pass on these cards unless I can find one in the used market in a year or two at a reasonable price.
[citation][nom]Onus[/nom]Fulgurant, the issue is that ASIC miners are beginning to come online. Some time this year, possibly by later this summer, they will render GPU mining obsolete. I'm hoping my HD7970 pays for itself before then.Keep in mind that nVidia cards have never been a miners' choice. For example, a GTX650Ti is visibly better than a HD7770 for games, but the HD7770 beats the stuffing out of the GTX650Ti at bitmining (200+MHash/s vs. <50MHash/s).My HD7970 does ~650MHash/s. The least of the ASIC miners due out is supposedly able to do 4.5GHash/s; so AMD's graphics cards could double their performance, and still be irrelevant for mining.[/citation]
You're also assuming that they will only be bitmining. Bitmining uses SHA256 which is a good hash for ASIC miners, but other currencies like LiteCoin use scrypt which does not lend itself to ASIC. Once ASICs come online, switching AMD GPUs to other currencies will be a better choice than going with a card that can't mine effeciently like Nvidias
You're also assuming that they will only be bitmining. Bitmining uses SHA256 which is a good hash for ASIC miners, but other currencies like LiteCoin use scrypt which does not lend itself to ASIC. Once ASICs come online, switching AMD GPUs to other currencies will be a better choice than going with a card that can't mine effeciently like Nvidias
dragonsqrrl
Distinguished
- Nov 19, 2009
- 1,280
- 0
- 19,290
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]At $550 I would be tempted to go ahead and buy two of them... I could probably still sell my 7970s for $350-400 each and I would at least consider paying $300 out of pocket for the upgrade. At $650 I'll just keep on bitcoin mining on my 7970s... and if AMD ever gets this prototype driver out to fix CF performance I may go ahead and hold onto them for another year.[/citation]
You should probably hold on to the 7970s regardless of the hypothetical pricing you mentioned. The 7970 is better for bit mining than anything Nvidia currently has to offer.
You should probably hold on to the 7970s regardless of the hypothetical pricing you mentioned. The 7970 is better for bit mining than anything Nvidia currently has to offer.
monkeymonk
Distinguished
- Mar 24, 2009
- 348
- 0
- 18,780
wow good price! I haven't finished reading it but that price sold me already. I'll be picking up 2 of these sometime to upgrade from my 690
dragonsqrrl
Distinguished
- Nov 19, 2009
- 1,280
- 0
- 19,290
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]BTC mining difficulty has skyrocketed over the past 4-6 months and continues to do so. GPU mining is nearly dead as a result; things are transitioning over to ASIC. By the end of the year, it's extremely unlikely that it will be profitable to mine on any GPU anymore. I will probably sell my 7970s soon after that occurs.[/citation]
hmm, interesting. What's driving this increase in BTC mining difficulty?
hmm, interesting. What's driving this increase in BTC mining difficulty?
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]I don't buy that argument for a second unless it's being made as an Nvidia shareholder. That line of thinking leads to consumers getting screwed.[/citation]
how do consumers get screwed? Nobody NEEDS this card. Nobody forces you to pay too much for a luxury item. People only pay it if it is worth it to them, and thus it is only overpriced if nobody buys it. Honestly there is nothing that my 7950 can't play, and if I want an upgrade, I'll wait until AMD comes out with a competing model, and buy the best value for me.
how do consumers get screwed? Nobody NEEDS this card. Nobody forces you to pay too much for a luxury item. People only pay it if it is worth it to them, and thus it is only overpriced if nobody buys it. Honestly there is nothing that my 7950 can't play, and if I want an upgrade, I'll wait until AMD comes out with a competing model, and buy the best value for me.
dragonsqrrl
Distinguished
- Nov 19, 2009
- 1,280
- 0
- 19,290
[citation][nom]godfather666[/nom]"But, I’m going to wait a week before deciding what I’d spend my money on in the high-end graphics market. "I must've missed something. Why wait a week?[/citation]
The GTX 770.
The GTX 770.
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
- 2,924
- 0
- 20,810
[citation][nom]godfather666[/nom]"But, I’m going to wait a week before deciding what I’d spend my money on in the high-end graphics market. "I must've missed something. Why wait a week?[/citation]
Either the 770 or a surprise from AMD? Doubt the AMD part because we've had no "rumors" floating about...
Either the 770 or a surprise from AMD? Doubt the AMD part because we've had no "rumors" floating about...
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
- 2,924
- 0
- 20,810
[citation][nom]06yfz450ridr[/nom]"When Nvidia launched the GeForce GTX 680, AMD was still asking something like $550 for the Radeon HD 7970, and the GK104-based board kicked it right in the tail. It was faster, cooler, quieter, and smaller than AMD’s flagship. I recommended the 680 without hesitation" not sure how the 680 is better, the 7970 ghz edition, plays better at higher res then the 680 esp with aa etc and is cheaper. Must be a nvidia fan boy[/citation]
He's talking about the vanilla 7970. GHz edition came later, and driver tweaks came even later. 680 meet or beat the 7970 in everything except compute at launch.
Read and comprehend before you start mashing your keyboard. :|
He's talking about the vanilla 7970. GHz edition came later, and driver tweaks came even later. 680 meet or beat the 7970 in everything except compute at launch.
Read and comprehend before you start mashing your keyboard. :|
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
- 2,924
- 0
- 20,810
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]I don't buy that argument for a second unless it's being made as an Nvidia shareholder. That line of thinking leads to consumers getting screwed.[/citation]
Yeah and it seems pretty popular on Tom's, that argument.
Remember all the consumerist weirdos claiming that the Titan isn't overpriced because it's out of stock?
That's like saying an iPad isn't over priced, never mind that they're making over 100% profit on the BoM of each iPad 4.
Yeah and it seems pretty popular on Tom's, that argument.
Remember all the consumerist weirdos claiming that the Titan isn't overpriced because it's out of stock?
That's like saying an iPad isn't over priced, never mind that they're making over 100% profit on the BoM of each iPad 4.
[citation][nom]CrisisCauser[/nom]A good alternative to the Titan. $650 was the original GTX 280 price before AMD came knocking with the Radeon 4870. I wonder if AMD has another surprise in store.[/citation]
I hear AMD is having a meeting with its partners and is going to be pushing out a refresh labeled the 8000 series late this summer in answer to the Nvidia 700 series. We'll see if that's true or just a rumor.
I hear AMD is having a meeting with its partners and is going to be pushing out a refresh labeled the 8000 series late this summer in answer to the Nvidia 700 series. We'll see if that's true or just a rumor.
Onus
Titan
- Jan 27, 2006
- 37,035
- 12
- 89,965
The BTC network hash rate is going up. This increases the difficulty. The hash rate is climbing most likely due to the growing availability of ASIC miners. There are also FPGA miners out there, which perform similarly to GPUs, but enjoy some significant economies of scale. While still currently also somewhat of a hobbyist activity, BTC mining is also a business, and spending $30K on FPGA or ASIC-based equipment to mine is an investment that overshadows anything hobbyists can do with their graphics cards. Remember a few years ago when HD58xx cards were so hard to get? That's because miners were snapping them up and building specialized rigs for BTC mining. One BTC is worth about $120 these days. A HD7970 can mine one BTC in about a month.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison
[citation][nom]06yfz450ridr[/nom]"When Nvidia launched the GeForce GTX 680, AMD was still asking something like $550 for the Radeon HD 7970, and the GK104-based board kicked it right in the tail. It was faster, cooler, quieter, and smaller than AMD’s flagship. I recommended the 680 without hesitation" not sure how the 680 is better, the 7970 ghz edition, plays better at higher res then the 680 esp with aa etc and is cheaper. Must be a nvidia fan boy[/citation]
I sell both AMD and Nvidia, I have 4x the request for Nvidia then I do AMD, and I have lots more complaints and returns because of the AMD drivers then I do Nvidia. Those that have switched to Nvidia from AMD tell me the game play is smoother. Those that have switched to AMD from Nvidia say the games are faster in some cases but its not that noticeable. Those are the facts plain and honest. AMD is supposed to be doing a quick refresh on the 7000s and will be releasing them late summer they may be called the 8000s. AMD has to do a better job on its drivers. When the 7970 1st came out customers had to wait 8 months for CF drivers, that's insane!
I sell both AMD and Nvidia, I have 4x the request for Nvidia then I do AMD, and I have lots more complaints and returns because of the AMD drivers then I do Nvidia. Those that have switched to Nvidia from AMD tell me the game play is smoother. Those that have switched to AMD from Nvidia say the games are faster in some cases but its not that noticeable. Those are the facts plain and honest. AMD is supposed to be doing a quick refresh on the 7000s and will be releasing them late summer they may be called the 8000s. AMD has to do a better job on its drivers. When the 7970 1st came out customers had to wait 8 months for CF drivers, that's insane!
- Jul 27, 2011
- 42,727
- 855
- 104,940
That is one gigantic beast of a video card. Awesome to see Titan performance at a price point that most gamers could actually afford!
- Status
TRENDING THREADS
-
Question New build wont post Gigabyte B650M Gaming Plus wifi , AMD Ryzen 5 7600X CPU, 32GB T-Force RGB DDR5. Need help!
- Started by Notmiserable
- Replies: 26
-
-
Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware- Started by Darkbreeze
- Replies: 2K
-
Discussion What's your favourite video game you've been playing?- Started by amdfangirl
- Replies: 4K
-
Question Pc turns on for half a second then turns off, don't know if it's a psu or RAM error.- Started by albert pbs
- Replies: 2
-
Question Best HDD for data recovery, reliability and perfomance
- Started by sabertoothgx
- Replies: 10
-
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram