Nvidia GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Founders Edition Review: A Titan V Killer

[Barty1884]

Apple are certainly not tech creative geniuses, they are marketing/ecosystem geniuses however.
They know they could remove any form of charging, make their users pay for single-use batteries, charge a $250 premium & people will still buy them :lol:

 

[-Fran-]

I don't want to turn this into a trolling war - but, perpetuating HDMI and DisplayPort is a waste of time. I just finished watching a video on YouTube where the head of a USB/Thunderbolt developer was explaining to the moderator why USB 2.0 was still being supported in new USB 3.2 products - they couldn't stop giggling like little girls because the whole issue is so ridiculous.

Look to Apple if you want to see how to do things correctly.

There seems to be an acceleration towards USB-C - so, maybe will get lucky and Nvidia will drop HDMI and DisplayPort next year... or perhaps the year after that. It is amazing how intently and incessantly tech manufacturers are influenced by Apple these days.

The next Nvidia card I buy will not HDMI or DisplayPort ports on it.

Ok, I'll have to chime in since I can't stand your horrible argument in favor of USB-C.

Display Port is a pure-graphical standard and ensures video is first and foremost transited in the spec. That implies you have lower latency and, objectively, all available bandwidth for video purposes. USB-C and Thunderbolt are mixed bags and share additional layers of complexity for implementation that you don't need with DP. In terms of digital standard for video, Display Port is by far the best out there.

I fully agree on HDMI though. That is meant for TVs and not PC screens. We don't need sound over the same connection; we already have SPDIF and Optical cables for glorious sound. It comes with some savings in terms of processing (well, not really), but overall stupid for the PC world.

USB-C to me is the same short-sighted vision of HDMI: you just slap more things into a protocol that are not really needed and increase complexity for the sake of complexity.

As a multi-purpose solution when latency is of no concern, be my guest. It can be there, but as a secondary alternative if you so want to pay for it. I'm sure as hell don't want nVidia or even AMD support it as their main source of output. It's a HIDEOUS idea no matter how you slice it.

Cheers!

I was thinking the same thing. As more devices ride on the USBus, there's no guarantees. This is why people continued to use firewire for their DAWs for so many years with some continuing to do so with expansion cards; lower latency and consistent throughput.

One caveat though... Audio does travel over the DP cable.

Holy cow, you're right... It can even double up as USB, lol.

I have been living in the darkness for so long!

 

[newsonline5000000]

Test 2xxx reference vs other reference cards, FE are overclocked.
This review is a waste of time

Hahah, I thought FE cards WERE REFERENCE cards? Are you certain it wasn't your comment that was the waste of time?
Update: I see you joined today just post a misleading statement. I'm just going to assume you're from another site and ask here (not in private, lest anyone think I'm underhanded), to have your username removed, followed then by the removal of this response.

Test SLI Against RTX Pricing ... we Demand THAT ! 1080 Ti SLI

 

[bloodroses]

In regards to the discussion that Nvidia should only go USB-C/thunderbolt/etc for their outputs, I can guarantee many people will not buy the card if they did something like that. As Barty said, most people will not replace all their currently existing hardware just because a company decides to make a drastic change. The only people I know of that do are Apple users because the company convinces them that's what they should do.

To give an example. I have a triple screen monitor setup at home that goes through the display port on my video card. If the video card doesn't have that connection type, my two options would be to either hopefully find an adapter/hub to convert the video type (good ones from dp to hdmi are not cheap, I can imagine other protocols being much better), or replace all 3 monitors. Either way, it is an unneeded expense and inconvenient. Worse yet, if I want to hook the PC up to a large 4k+ uber expensive TV, I would have to either hope for the adapter/hub again, or replace the uber expensive TV. Again, this is very inconvenient and expensive.

It was the same way with Apple's 'brilliant' idea to remove the headphone jack on their phones. Many people do have expensive DACs and/or expensive cord based headphones; simply because they sound much better than bluetooth headphones. By removing the jack, they offer a dongle to be able to connect to the thunderbolt jack; at an extra expensive and not cheap for what it is. Once you do this, you can no longer charge your phone at the same time, unless you go with a wireless charger; yet another expense. So, once everything is said and done, extra money is spent to try and have an equal or inferior experience compared to just leaving the jack in the phone in the first place. Most other cell phone companies have realized this and have started offering that jack back in their phones. I know when I got my phone, I went with a Z-Play instead of a Z-Force because of that reason alone.

Change strictly for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

 

[newsonline5000000]

In regards to the discussion that Nvidia should only go USB-C/thunderbolt/etc for their outputs, I can guarantee many people will not buy the card if they did something like that. As Barty said, most people will not replace all their currently existing hardware just because a company decides to make a drastic change. The only people I know of that do are Apple users because the company convinces them that's what they should do.

To give an example. I have a triple screen monitor setup at home that goes through the display port on my video card. If the video card doesn't have that connection type, my two options would be to either hopefully find an adapter/hub to convert the video type (good ones from dp to hdmi are not cheap, I can imagine other protocols being much better), or replace all 3 monitors. Either way, it is an unneeded expense and inconvenient. Worse yet, if I want to hook the PC up to a large 4k+ uber expensive TV, I would have to either hope for the adapter/hub again, or replace the uber expensive TV. Again, this is very inconvenient and expensive.

It was the same way with Apple's 'brilliant' idea to remove the headphone jack on their phones. Many people do have expensive DACs and/or expensive cord based headphones; simply because they sound much better than bluetooth headphones. By removing the jack, they offer a dongle to be able to connect to the thunderbolt jack; at an extra expensive and not cheap for what it is. Once you do this, you can no longer charge your phone at the same time, unless you go with a wireless charger; yet another expense. So, once everything is said and done, extra money is spent to try and have an equal or inferior experience compared to just leaving the jack in the phone in the first place. Most other cell phone companies have realized this and have started offering that jack back in their phones. I know when I got my phone, I went with a Z-Play instead of a Z-Force because of that reason alone.

Change strictly for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

are you sure ?

https://bestlightningheadphones.com/iphone-7-headphone-jack-chargers-charge-iphone-7-listen-music/

 

[Barty1884]

are you sure ?

https://bestlightningheadphones.com/iphone-7-headphone-jack-chargers-charge-iphone-7-listen-music/

That's not the ecosystem Apple presents though. They do not supply (or offer) a splitter. Third parties do.

Anyway, I think that's enough talk of Apple specifically. Back on topic.

 

[bloodroses]

In regards to the discussion that Nvidia should only go USB-C/thunderbolt/etc for their outputs, I can guarantee many people will not buy the card if they did something like that. As Barty said, most people will not replace all their currently existing hardware just because a company decides to make a drastic change. The only people I know of that do are Apple users because the company convinces them that's what they should do.

To give an example. I have a triple screen monitor setup at home that goes through the display port on my video card. If the video card doesn't have that connection type, my two options would be to either hopefully find an adapter/hub to convert the video type (good ones from dp to hdmi are not cheap, I can imagine other protocols being much better), or replace all 3 monitors. Either way, it is an unneeded expense and inconvenient. Worse yet, if I want to hook the PC up to a large 4k+ uber expensive TV, I would have to either hope for the adapter/hub again, or replace the uber expensive TV. Again, this is very inconvenient and expensive.

It was the same way with Apple's 'brilliant' idea to remove the headphone jack on their phones. Many people do have expensive DACs and/or expensive cord based headphones; simply because they sound much better than bluetooth headphones. By removing the jack, they offer a dongle to be able to connect to the thunderbolt jack; at an extra expensive and not cheap for what it is. Once you do this, you can no longer charge your phone at the same time, unless you go with a wireless charger; yet another expense. So, once everything is said and done, extra money is spent to try and have an equal or inferior experience compared to just leaving the jack in the phone in the first place. Most other cell phone companies have realized this and have started offering that jack back in their phones. I know when I got my phone, I went with a Z-Play instead of a Z-Force because of that reason alone.

Change strictly for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

are you sure ?

https://bestlightningheadphones.com/iphone-7-headphone-jack-chargers-charge-iphone-7-listen-music/

None approved/made by Apple. The only one that is approved is the Belkin model that they charge $45 for at the Apple store ($35 at Amazon):

https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/product/HKKP2ZM/A/belkin-lightning-audio-charge-rockstar

Also, at the bottom of the article, it even mentions the shortcomings of these adapters; taking phone calls and changing volume with remote. An extra, unnecessary headache; along with having to carry the said dongle everywhere that can be lost.

 

[bloodroses]

are you sure ?

https://bestlightningheadphones.com/iphone-7-headphone-jack-chargers-charge-iphone-7-listen-music/

That's not the ecosystem Apple presents though. They do not supply (or offer) a splitter. Third parties do.

Anyway, I think that's enough talk of Apple specifically. Back on topic.

I agree, sounds good

 

[truerock]

In regards to the discussion that Nvidia should only go USB-C/thunderbolt/etc for their outputs, I can guarantee many people will not buy the card if they did something like that. As Barty said, most people will not replace all their currently existing hardware just because a company decides to make a drastic change. The only people I know of that do are Apple users because the company convinces them that's what they should do.

To give an example. I have a triple screen monitor setup at home that goes through the display port on my video card. If the video card doesn't have that connection type, my two options would be to either hopefully find an adapter/hub to convert the video type (good ones from dp to hdmi are not cheap, I can imagine other protocols being much better), or replace all 3 monitors. Either way, it is an unneeded expense and inconvenient. Worse yet, if I want to hook the PC up to a large 4k+ uber expensive TV, I would have to either hope for the adapter/hub again, or replace the uber expensive TV. Again, this is very inconvenient and expensive.

It was the same way with Apple's 'brilliant' idea to remove the headphone jack on their phones. Many people do have expensive DACs and/or expensive cord based headphones; simply because they sound much better than bluetooth headphones. By removing the jack, they offer a dongle to be able to connect to the thunderbolt jack; at an extra expensive and not cheap for what it is. Once you do this, you can no longer charge your phone at the same time, unless you go with a wireless charger; yet another expense. So, once everything is said and done, extra money is spent to try and have an equal or inferior experience compared to just leaving the jack in the phone in the first place. Most other cell phone companies have realized this and have started offering that jack back in their phones. I know when I got my phone, I went with a Z-Play instead of a Z-Force because of that reason alone.

Change strictly for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

As soon as Apple dropped the headphone-jack, the other manufacturers started dropping the headphone-jack.
This is an example of a huge problem in the technology industry that Apple is helping solve.

I watched a video yesterday where the head of a USB/Thunderbolt manufacturer was discussing USB 3.2.
The moderators and the manufacturer started giggling as they were discussing how USB 2.0 support is required in USB 3.2. This has always been the USB consortium's big idea - backward compatibility. I think it has gotten through to a lot of technologists that this idea of having to support old technology is a huge drag on moving forward to new technology and that is one of the reasons Apple has an advantage.

Note that VirtualLink is not supporting USB 2.0. I see that as a possible industry realization that you have to let go of old technology so that you can move forward. I have lots of USB 2.0 technology in the room I am in right now. But, I see no reason why the next PC I build has to support USB 2.0.

Now, USB 2.0 really did have to be dropped in order for VirtualLink to work properly. But, I still think that in today's technology environment technologists are starting to understand that supporting old technology is not a good thing for future technology.

 

[akesire]

Overpriced monitors and overpriced graphic card... "4k rulez"!
There is not concurrency for the nvidia anymore in the PC market because the AMD in the console business and gives a sh*t.
THIS IS REALLY SAD!
A 4k monitor (144Hz) for $2k and a VGA for $1.2k!

 

[Crashman]

In regards to the discussion that Nvidia should only go USB-C/thunderbolt/etc for their outputs, I can guarantee many people will not buy the card if they did something like that. As Barty said, most people will not replace all their currently existing hardware just because a company decides to make a drastic change. The only people I know of that do are Apple users because the company convinces them that's what they should do.

To give an example. I have a triple screen monitor setup at home that goes through the display port on my video card. If the video card doesn't have that connection type, my two options would be to either hopefully find an adapter/hub to convert the video type (good ones from dp to hdmi are not cheap, I can imagine other protocols being much better), or replace all 3 monitors. Either way, it is an unneeded expense and inconvenient. Worse yet, if I want to hook the PC up to a large 4k+ uber expensive TV, I would have to either hope for the adapter/hub again, or replace the uber expensive TV. Again, this is very inconvenient and expensive.

It was the same way with Apple's 'brilliant' idea to remove the headphone jack on their phones. Many people do have expensive DACs and/or expensive cord based headphones; simply because they sound much better than bluetooth headphones. By removing the jack, they offer a dongle to be able to connect to the thunderbolt jack; at an extra expensive and not cheap for what it is. Once you do this, you can no longer charge your phone at the same time, unless you go with a wireless charger; yet another expense. So, once everything is said and done, extra money is spent to try and have an equal or inferior experience compared to just leaving the jack in the phone in the first place. Most other cell phone companies have realized this and have started offering that jack back in their phones. I know when I got my phone, I went with a Z-Play instead of a Z-Force because of that reason alone.

Change strictly for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

As soon as Apple dropped the headphone-jack, the other manufacturers started dropping the headphone-jack.
This is an example of a huge problem in the technology industry that Apple is helping solve.

I watched a video yesterday where the head of a USB/Thunderbolt manufacturer was discussing USB 3.2.
The moderators and the manufacturer started giggling as they were discussing how USB 2.0 support is required in USB 3.2. This has always been the USB consortium's big idea - backward compatibility. I think it has gotten through to a lot of technologists that this idea of having to support old technology is a huge drag on moving forward to new technology and that is one of the reasons Apple has an advantage.

Note that VirtualLink is not supporting USB 2.0. I see that as a possible industry realization that you have to let go of old technology so that you can move forward. I have lots of USB 2.0 technology in the room I am in right now. But, I see no reason why the next PC I build has to support USB 2.0.

Now, USB 2.0 really did have to be dropped in order for VirtualLink to work properly. But, I still think that in today's technology environment technologists are starting to understand that supporting old technology is not a good thing for future technology.

Yeh, Apple solved the problem of people having local radio access on their phones by removing the headphone wire that those phones were using for an antenna. In the process, Apple solved the problem of wireless providers not being able to cash in on certain users streaming music by giving those users no other choice.

That's like Singapore solving the problem of getting stuck in traffic by making it nearly impossible to get a car.

 

[Scott_123]

"But what if we told you it also beats Nvidia’s Titan V? In Battlefield 1, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 20% faster. In Forza Motorsport 7, the 2080 Ti enjoys a 22% advantage. Based on the two cards’ specifications, we weren’t expecting such a dramatic finish. Although the $3000 GV100-based Titan V is made for deep learning and not gaming, those results sure put GeForce RTX 2080 Ti’s $1200 price into context."

How does comparing a scientific industry based video card to a gaming card put the $1200 price of the 2080 Ti into context????

More of the same biased Tom's Hardware journalistic expertise.

You're really blowing this out of proportion. It's not like they didn't benchmark any other cards. Anyone who's not an idiot can clearly see the Titan V was never worth the price, given the modest improvement it provides over the GTX 1080 Ti.

I, for one, appreciated the comparison with the Titan V. The reason being that it's the ultimate application of brute force. It has the most CUDA cores of any Nvidia GPU, its die is yet bigger (and the same process node) as the RTX 2080 Ti's TU102, and it has HBM2. I would be curious to know just how such a beast compares! I would be wondering "can it unseat The King?" Now I know, thanks to Chris' (and others'?) efforts.

You have to assume some intelligence on the part of readers and maybe don't try so hard to find something to take issue with. IMO, it was a solid review that cost you nothing to read. Just some perspective.

After he ignored the actual quote I posted several times and then accused me of lying for finally explaining what it meant, all hope for reason is lost.

I did not ignore the actual quote, you ignored the actual quote as you demonstrated by eventually rewording the author's words to mean something different.

The only reason that is and has been lost is your own.

 

[Crashman]

I did not ignore the actual quote, you ignored the actual quote as you demonstrated by eventually rewording the author's words to mean something different.

The only reason that is and has been lost is your own.

Here's the author's quote again, now please lie about it again.

But we fancy ourselves advocates for enthusiasts, and we still can't recommend placing $1200 on the altar of progress to create an audience for game developers to target. If you choose to buy GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, do so for its performance today, not based on the potential of its halo feature.

When I said good day, I half expected you to say "tis but a scratch" 😀

 

[Energy96]

Can you guys please do an SLI (NVlink) review?

I run 780TI's in SLI and want to know if it is worth it to upgrade to RTX 2080 TI
I feel like one 2080 TI is not going to offer much improvement over my 2 780 ti's
I want to see what these 2080 TI's will do in SLI (NVLINK).

Would also like to see some comparisons for slightly older cards like mine.
This really helps when trying to decide if it is worth it.

Thanks!

That will become a possibility, at least, once we see a second 2080 Ti. Right now the third-party 2080s have formed a neat-orderly line for attention in the lab.

Hope to see it soon.
Maybe you can borrow one or collaborate with your partner site Anandtech?
Doesn't seem like anyone has done one yet, you guys could be the first!

I know lots of people are wondering if SLI is beneficial in the new ones or not and how well it works.
I'm hesitant to buy 2 of them (or even one) for sure until I know more.
Wondering also with 2 in SLI will ray tracing capacity also increase similarly to what you would expect from normal rendering increase of SLI?
If it did it might mean being able to enable RT and still keep a good resolution and higher settings.

Thanks!

 

[Reynod]

Crash ... are you getting these cards to put on water and overclock next?

Looking forward to someone ruthelessly extracting some additional performance.

Plus ... I know torturing components makes you happy !!



Darren

 

[Crashman]

Crash ... are you getting these cards to put on water and overclock next?

Looking forward to someone ruthelessly extracting some additional performance.

Plus ... I know torturing components makes you happy !!



Darren

Nah, we simply don't have enough to go around. I still have to see if Angelini can loan a couple short-term to Terkelsen for a build article, and haven't asked yet because I know he's not there yet.

 

[bit_user]

I've updated my analysis of the results from the article to include both mean and 99th percentile.

Improvement from GTX 1080 Ti to RTX 2080 Ti

 

[Phaaze88]

Your analysis is pretty much synonymous with TH's results.
The overall improvement is less than half of the price increase(current pricing).
Just not worth it all... *SMH* -To most of us, that is.

 

[bit_user]

Your analysis is pretty much synonymous with TH's results.
The overall improvement is less than half of the price increase(current pricing).
Just not worth it all... *SMH* -To most of us, that is.

Agreed. The overall figure of about 25% is not worth the Titan-level pricing.

Of course, Titan Xp offered much less improvement vs. the GTX 1080 Ti, but (I presume) sold in far lower quantities.

 

[Reynod]

Crash ... are you getting these cards to put on water and overclock next?

Looking forward to someone ruthelessly extracting some additional performance.

Plus ... I know torturing components makes you happy !!



Darren

Nah, we simply don't have enough to go around. I still have to see if Angelini can loan a couple short-term to Terkelsen for a build article, and haven't asked yet because I know he's not there yet.

Must be frustrating for you mate.

Surely NVidia must know by now that they need to make an extra sample of any new product for you to blow up.

Intel and (particularly) AMD know full well what to expect when you get one of their new CPU's.

I would link some of those early articles of yours but they no longer seem to exist.

 

[Scott_123]

I did not ignore the actual quote, you ignored the actual quote as you demonstrated by eventually rewording the author's words to mean something different.

The only reason that is and has been lost is your own.

Here's the author's quote again, now please lie about it again.

But we fancy ourselves advocates for enthusiasts, and we still can't recommend placing $1200 on the altar of progress to create an audience for game developers to target. If you choose to buy GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, do so for its performance today, not based on the potential of its halo feature.

When I said good day, I half expected you to say "tis but a scratch" 😀

Exactly! My argument was against the exact wording and meaning of the article. Your argument was about your rewording the wording and meaning of the article to mean whatever you wanted the article to mean. Can you not see your dishonesty or are you being purposely obtuse?

 

[Crashman]

Your analysis is pretty much synonymous with TH's results.
The overall improvement is less than half of the price increase(current pricing).
Just not worth it all... *SMH* -To most of us, that is.

I love the edit. I don't think any of us having this discussion will be buying the card just yet, but I'm certain there well be tens of thousands of "but it's still better" buyers who don't actually care about these discussions.

 

[David_326]

Not really a Titan V Killer till the price comes down. At the price it is now just don't think it is a good value as of today.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Test 2xxx reference vs other reference cards, FE are overclocked.
This review is a waste of time

Are you daft? Reference cards no longer exist and were replaced with "Founders Edition" last generation BY NVIDIA. Further, the cards are FACTORY OVERCLOCKED by Nvidia.

They are still considered reference cards. If an OEM builds a reference card it will typically follow the PCB and power delivery design of the FE cards. Non-reference is like my GTX 1080 Strix from Asus which has its own PCB design and power delivery system.

The clock speed is not always considered part of the reference design. Plenty of AiBs have reference design cards with slightly higher clocks than FE cards.

Not really a Titan V Killer till the price comes down. At the price it is now just don't think it is a good value as of today.

Lets see, 4K60FPS for $3K or 4K60FPS for $1200. That seems like a killer to me since its less than half the cost.

Basically for the price of a Titan V you can have a full system that provides similar or better performance AND hopefully interesting features for the future of gaming.

 

[SkyBill40]

Test 2xxx reference vs other reference cards, FE are overclocked.
This review is a waste of time

Are you daft? Reference cards no longer exist and were replaced with "Founders Edition" last generation BY NVIDIA. Further, the cards are FACTORY OVERCLOCKED by Nvidia.

They are still considered reference cards. If an OEM builds a reference card it will typically follow the PCB and power delivery design of the FE cards. Non-reference is like my GTX 1080 Strix from Asus which has its own PCB design and power delivery system.

The clock speed is not always considered part of the reference design. Plenty of AiBs have reference design cards with slightly higher clocks than FE cards.

I'm aware of those things, Jimmy. The person to whom I responded apparently is the one in need of the clarification. Putting the kaibosh on "reference" and calling it a "Founders edition" is just a push and not a meaningful change. It's naming chicanery and nothing more. My point was that they're no longer called reference... even though that is, in fact, what they are. As for the clock speeds, it's pretty much a given that AiBs will push for as much as they can with the headroom available. The FE cards were OC'd by Nvidia and he failed to pay attention to that.