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Maybe it will but I hope not, looking at YouTube reviews from JayzTwoCents, GamersNexus, LTT etc and posts I see from people here and on other forums most think these prices are extortionate. Stock levels also back this up, the 4080 FE has been in stock every time I have looked for the last month.
The party is over for Nvidia and AMD, time for them to wake up.
ohio_buckeye
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Markis82
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I completely disagree with your take. You forget to take into consideration of context and there context where it is "extremely good" and context where it is "awful".
Awful Value Take:
- Upgrading from last gen is a minor bump for an outrageous price.
- If you are on an older card and if you can find a really good last gen deal for Ampere / RDNA2 be it on a great sale or refurbished its incomprable value compared to the current Ada / RDNA3 price gouging practices.
Yup, that is literally the only real negative.
Extremely Good Value Take:
- If you are upgrading from an older generation such as the 2000 series/equivalent or older its a huge performance increase. The price being awful is relative and in the case of your "only options" are RDNA3, Ada, or last gen... unless you are willing to dig up a hugely discounted or refurbished last gen GPU then of the newest gen the 4070 Ti completely outclasses any alternatives. In fact, it completely alleniates the entirety of the RDNA3 line both for the 7900 XT & XTX which is something not being sold hard enough.
- You see for $100 cheaper it has nearly identical native performance to the 7900 XT which means the XT straight loses there.
- You see when DLSS3 is included, which is good in some cases and not ideal in others, it can even rival or surpass a native RTX 4090 and certainly stomp the 7900 XTX.
- DLSS2 is still superior to FSR and going to keep it ahead of the curve and may still allow it to compete with the XTX in some cases.
- Ray tracing from this, especially when coupled with DLSS, can see it beating out the 7900 XTX as the XT isn't even on the table to compete at this point.
You nailed it. The consumers are the one enabling this and they virtually solidified it with last gen's price gouging and scalper pricing being so dang successful. The fact that AMD isn't acting as an appropriate value competitor and yet also not pricing much better only reinforces how screwed we are until consumers stop engaging in such purchases.
rDigital
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AMD can't just sell a $500 7900XT, nor can Nvidia just sell a $500 4070 TI. The scalper situation would just happen all over again. The situation has to work itself out naturally, over time.
The market is fine with these prices right now, and it sucks.
You can't beat the system, you have to wait it out. Anyone who has bought a GPU in the last few years (NV 20xx /amd RDNA+) is still going to be ok for a while waiting it out. Don't chase the market, let it come to you.
I don't get it. How many more people are in such a dire need of a new video card that they're willing to pay a hefty premium for it? The COVID rush was understandable: a lot of people had to buy a new PC for working from home. But now the GPU sales are at their 20-year low, the overall demand seems to be on the decline, and I simply can't understand who the hell can possibly keep buying this overpriced crap to justify these price hikes? Am I missing something?
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Don't underestimate the investor pressure AMD and Nvidia's CEO are under to deliver profits.
AMD and Nvidia decided that raising prices and only offering expensive cards would be the solution. And since AMD and Nvidia are a GPU duopoly, they could do this.
But playing hardball with gamers is not working, gamers are not biting. Most aren't buying these GPU and are either waiting until Nvidia and AMD are forced to drastically slash prices and many have simply stopped upgrading GPU.
There was a point several years ago, where any PC could run a browser and non-gamers stopped upgrading PC. There is no reason why this won't happen with gaming too. Most people do not care about 4k or 200hz monitors or a puddle of water using raytracing. For most people 1080p/1440p is great. We might be at a point where faster GPU don't matter anymore for the average gamer.
The fact 1060, 1650 and 1050Ti are still the most used GPU on Steam user surveys shows that many gamers are happy with their current GPU and don't feel the need to upgrade. I did a small calculation picking random games on steam, most of the games on Steam run on an integrated GPU. But even if you pick the 10 most popular games on Steam, most of them would run great on a 1060 in 1080p.
I would not want to be an investor in AMD or Nvidia right now, the market is going to punish them for weak GPU sales.
The media is completely ignoring what is happening with these companies and their tanking sales. They are not in a good position at all. And gamers know this, they know AMD and Nvidia are not in a position to play hardball with them. The overwhelming response to the 40 series GPU is people flat out saying they will not buy them. When half the comments on Youtube videos are people saying the 4070 are too expensive and they won't buy the card, you have a problem as a company. Because if dedicated gamers following GPU news won't buy GPU, regular gamers certainly won't.
AMD and Nvidia decided that raising prices and only offering expensive cards would be the solution. And since AMD and Nvidia are a GPU duopoly, they could do this.
But playing hardball with gamers is not working, gamers are not biting. Most aren't buying these GPU and are either waiting until Nvidia and AMD are forced to drastically slash prices and many have simply stopped upgrading GPU.
There was a point several years ago, where any PC could run a browser and non-gamers stopped upgrading PC. There is no reason why this won't happen with gaming too. Most people do not care about 4k or 200hz monitors or a puddle of water using raytracing. For most people 1080p/1440p is great. We might be at a point where faster GPU don't matter anymore for the average gamer.
The fact 1060, 1650 and 1050Ti are still the most used GPU on Steam user surveys shows that many gamers are happy with their current GPU and don't feel the need to upgrade. I did a small calculation picking random games on steam, most of the games on Steam run on an integrated GPU. But even if you pick the 10 most popular games on Steam, most of them would run great on a 1060 in 1080p.
I would not want to be an investor in AMD or Nvidia right now, the market is going to punish them for weak GPU sales.
The media is completely ignoring what is happening with these companies and their tanking sales. They are not in a good position at all. And gamers know this, they know AMD and Nvidia are not in a position to play hardball with them. The overwhelming response to the 40 series GPU is people flat out saying they will not buy them. When half the comments on Youtube videos are people saying the 4070 are too expensive and they won't buy the card, you have a problem as a company. Because if dedicated gamers following GPU news won't buy GPU, regular gamers certainly won't.
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Markis82
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They can. The main reason the scalper situation happened was stock issues. They simply didn't have enough GPUs available to combat insane prices so because scalped GPUs were the only available product unless you got a lucky lottery on Newegg or such you had no choice. It was made worse by the mining boom that resulted in even further reduction of available GPUs. Now? Not an issue as both problems are no longer relevant. They simply know they can get away with these prices and a lack of proper competition from AMD or price reduction for value competition does not exist. It could happen if there was a limited stock still for a brief period on a new GPU's launch, but for now we have ample on shelves in most areas so its rather safe.
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Data shows the market is flat out rejecting higher GPU prices.
40 series is not selling well at all.
LDLC is one of the biggest retailers of computer hardware in Europe. The 4080 never went out of stock, this is incredibly abnormal, all previous gen GPU I am aware of went out of stock on launch.
In fact hardware in general is selling really poorly, orders at TSMC are being cut left and right. Both TSMC and Samsung have warned of overcapacity.
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AgentBirdnest
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That's me. The more I think about this card, the more sense it makes for me.
I read/watched at least 7 reviews today, almost universally slamming it. And I did too, when I saw some benchmarks and was underwhelmed, and saw that it appears to be a 1:1 price/performance increase. Meh.
10 hours or so later, I'm thinking about my options. I'm using an RTX 2060, and a 1440p G-sync monitor, so Nvidia is my only option if I want to keep adaptive sync (and keep this monitor.) I really desperately wanted to upgrade to a 3080 two years ago, but was unable to find one due to scalping/shortages. By the time the shortage had finally ended, I didn't have the cash to spare anymore - and still don't. In another couple of months, I should be able to upgrade though. There are a couple 3080s in the $500s on eBay, but most of them are $600+, and I don't think that's gonna change much. So, $600 for something used, or $800 for 20% better performance, with a warranty, better power efficiency (really important to me), and AV1 encoding (would be very useful for me), and DLSS3 is a neat bonus. That's worth it to me.
Unless the 4070 (non-Ti) comes out in the next few months and is a more compelling option, the 4070 Ti is looking like my next card. And I can't wait. And I understand the frustration; I was feeling it just 10 hours ago... But for my case, this makes the most sense to me.
ohio_buckeye
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Them at overcapacity in the short term could be good for those with money since you may get a few good deals. Someone made the point how that amd and nvidia might be under pressure for higher end sales. Case in point, when was the last time a ryzen 3 desktop cpu was produced? Not in the last 3 years or so if I recall.
They seem to be slowly releasing the high end cards and will likely eventually get to the 50 and 60 series cards. It will be interesting to see the prices to performance on those and if people buy. While I’m not rushing out to buy a 4070ti, you must admit it’s definitely interesting that it can run with a 3090ti. If you get say a 4060 that is 3070ti territory at say 450 you wonder how that will go.
To the guy above you might wait for the 4060 class cards. If they are similar in performance to a 3070, it should handle 1440p fine. I had a 6700xt which I sold for almost what I paid for it after I got my 3080, but that card did fine at 1440p. I really only upgraded because I was getting money at Christmas and knew I could sell my old card.
Of course if a 4070ti is similar to a 3090, if a 4070 non ti is priced right and is in line with a 3080/3080ti that should be a good card also.
If you sell on eBay at all it looks like the 2060 sells for around 150-200 used. So that would take some money off your purchase if you get a 4070ti.
If on a budget it looks like used 3070s can be had under 400, which if you sold the old card that would give you a budget upgrade then you could wait and see what cards are released.
They seem to be slowly releasing the high end cards and will likely eventually get to the 50 and 60 series cards. It will be interesting to see the prices to performance on those and if people buy. While I’m not rushing out to buy a 4070ti, you must admit it’s definitely interesting that it can run with a 3090ti. If you get say a 4060 that is 3070ti territory at say 450 you wonder how that will go.
To the guy above you might wait for the 4060 class cards. If they are similar in performance to a 3070, it should handle 1440p fine. I had a 6700xt which I sold for almost what I paid for it after I got my 3080, but that card did fine at 1440p. I really only upgraded because I was getting money at Christmas and knew I could sell my old card.
Of course if a 4070ti is similar to a 3090, if a 4070 non ti is priced right and is in line with a 3080/3080ti that should be a good card also.
If you sell on eBay at all it looks like the 2060 sells for around 150-200 used. So that would take some money off your purchase if you get a 4070ti.
If on a budget it looks like used 3070s can be had under 400, which if you sold the old card that would give you a budget upgrade then you could wait and see what cards are released.
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coromonadalix
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I was scalped for an Asus Phoenix RTX3060
Still recovering for it loll
No way i'm gonna rush for an AMD or Nvidia newest series and pay thoses huge amounts
Since the Iphone X breaked the 1k$ barrier and people still bough it, there will be people who will pay for anything 🙁
Huge cpu prices
Huge Motherboard prices
And now huge GPU ......
I was planning for an full pcie, nvme ... 5-5-5 Rig, and the new setup vs my old, is easily twice ?
from my Msi MPG x570, Amd 5600x, 64gb (4x16gb) , Rtx 3060 12gb .. had 1 Asus TUF X570 gaming died on me .. total of 2k CAD$
Gonna wait i think
Still recovering for it loll
No way i'm gonna rush for an AMD or Nvidia newest series and pay thoses huge amounts
Since the Iphone X breaked the 1k$ barrier and people still bough it, there will be people who will pay for anything 🙁
Huge cpu prices
Huge Motherboard prices
And now huge GPU ......
I was planning for an full pcie, nvme ... 5-5-5 Rig, and the new setup vs my old, is easily twice ?
from my Msi MPG x570, Amd 5600x, 64gb (4x16gb) , Rtx 3060 12gb .. had 1 Asus TUF X570 gaming died on me .. total of 2k CAD$
Gonna wait i think
candymancan
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worthless card... its great for ray tracing.. thats it... a 6950xt or 6900xt used is a better value.. you can get them for $550-600 used now... For 5-10% less performance but 33% less in price..
candymancan
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youre better off getting a 6900xt used for $600 or a 6800xt for 450... even a 1080ti is faster than a 3060...
candymancan
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Maybe, but...
View: https://twitter.com/LinusTech/status/1607859452170113024?cxt=HHwWgMDU9eTpodAsAAAA
Some of us hate LTT, which is a large channel, but what happened? The 'never' is more than the others combined...
candymancan
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thats what im saying its great for ray tracing... but why spend $200 more for that when you can get a used 6900xt or 6950xt for $200 less and only have a very slight loss in performance
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-AMD's 'crappy' drivers. [Not my words, FYI. Just one of the comments I see around the net.]
-Just don't want yesterday's stuff, even if it is good.
-Nvidia is the bigger brand in my area(wherever that is).
-Nvidia is the best. It's not enough that AMD is competitive, they have to beat Nvidia to get my money.[Again, not my words.]
-Stabbed in the butt by previous experiences with AMD products, and don't want to go back to chance getting stabbed again. [When Nvidia does it, do they go back to AMD?]
- Jun 12, 2015
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This was me 3 weeks ago, I just didn't wait for a 4070 TI as I had other reasons for choosing AMD this time. It still beats my 2070 Super, some nice scores in 3d mark.
I have not seen enough information to suggest if the party is or is not over. What we are missing is revenue figures and profit margins. I’ve seen it in other industries operating in a mature market where the low price low margin products get dropped and the premium products with higher margins squeeze up prices and maximise margin. When operating in a mature market there is often minimal opportunity to grow revenue significantly, during this period it is considered best to maximise margins and invest those profits in other future revenue streams. So although volumes are down, if revenue and margins are where NVidia wants them this actually could be inline with their strategy. I have no idea if this is their strategy but having seen this sort of thing elsewhere I would not be surprised if it was.
ohio_buckeye
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If there’s one thing I learned this generation is there’s some value to the previous generation cards since for one you may be able to get similar performance for less $$, and the fact that the drivers are mature by the time the newer hardware comes up. Case in point, possible amd recalls for the 7900 cards.
Lots of other outlets are mentioning how the $800 MSRP is practically false advertisement as Nvidia made margins so small partners are telling them its impossible to sell a 4070ti at that price and not lose money.
So, IMO, the 4070ti is overpriced crap. MSRP should be no more than $649.
PC gaming is going to the rich and while the short term profits are good for AMD and Nvidia they fail to realize how much they are killing their own customer base. 2 years from now they might regret their approach and how they helped kill the market when they cannot sell their products.
I've already turned to Xbox Series X and Steam Deck.
I'll continue to use my 1080ti until it cannot play games decent any more but after that I might just abandon PC gaming outside of my Steam Deck.
So, IMO, the 4070ti is overpriced crap. MSRP should be no more than $649.
PC gaming is going to the rich and while the short term profits are good for AMD and Nvidia they fail to realize how much they are killing their own customer base. 2 years from now they might regret their approach and how they helped kill the market when they cannot sell their products.
I've already turned to Xbox Series X and Steam Deck.
I'll continue to use my 1080ti until it cannot play games decent any more but after that I might just abandon PC gaming outside of my Steam Deck.
ohio_buckeye
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I still prefer pc gaming. You figure an rx 6600 is likely about as fast as the gpu on the series x. So I suppose you could look at lower cards. On the other hand part of the fun of pc games is having better graphics than console.
For me part of the fun is simply upgrading. Kind of like working on a hot rod I guess. But the prices are getting high. To be honest even though I got a good deal on my 3080, my previous card was a 6700xt that I sold almost for what I paid. Do I get better fps and better ray tracing, sure but there really if you had an untrained eye you likely wouldn’t see a lot of difference.
For me part of the fun is simply upgrading. Kind of like working on a hot rod I guess. But the prices are getting high. To be honest even though I got a good deal on my 3080, my previous card was a 6700xt that I sold almost for what I paid. Do I get better fps and better ray tracing, sure but there really if you had an untrained eye you likely wouldn’t see a lot of difference.
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