Nvidia GTX 1180 Expected in July: What You Need to Know

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SkyBill40

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You're right. My apologies in this circumstance.
 

Patrick Tobin

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So basically video card prices are way out of hand on account of crypto currency miners and nVidia is releasing a new card that is over $1000. Great. Anybody want to join the betting pool on how long these take to go to $2000-3000 after the miners get hold of em too?
 

TJ Hooker

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The tweaktown article referenced is pretty terrible, making this article sort of terrible as well. From Tweaktown (https://www.tweaktown.com/news/62196/nvidias-next-gen-gtx-1180-rumors-999-1499-aug-sept/index.html):

"Why would you buy a new GTX 1080 Ti if the GTX 1180 (if that's what it's called) is cheaper? You wouldn't. The GTX 1080 Ti debuted at $799, and the next card from there is the TITAN Xp at $1199. This gives a nice buffer in between for a new card, unless the larger rumors are true: the new GTX 1180 is faster than the TITAN Xp, then we could expect it to be more expensive.

GTX 1180 - 8GB GDDR6 - $999
GTX 1180 - 16GB GDDR6 - $1499
"

Each new generation increases performance per dollar. A 980 cost lest than a 780 Ti, a 1080 cost less than a 980 Ti, why on earth would the author assume a 1180 must cost more than a 1080 Ti? When a new generation comes out the old gen is either discontinued or has its prices slashed (or gets rebadged as a lower tier part in the new gen) in order to fit into the new product stack.

"But how damn fast would the GTX 1180 need to be at $999-$1499 for it to be viable? Single-card 4K 120/144Hz in today's games, that's how."

So basically the author failed to recognize an obvious trend in the graphics card market (and technology market it general), that new generations bring increased performance for typically around the same price (or even lower in some cases). Starting from that, they made up prices based on their incorrect assumption about the 1180 necessarily costing more than the 1080 Ti and/or Titan Xp. From there they made up performance numbers that they feel would justify their made up prices.


TL;DR: The price and performance numbers stated in this article were pulled out of thin air, with nothing in either the TH article or referenced tweaktown article to back them up.
 
^^ I only use Tweaktown for GPU benchmark reviews, and not very often at that. If they allow basics like this wrong and getting passed through editing by seniors, I'm questioning the accuracy of their benchmarks. It doesn't take a N00B to realize that say a GTX 970 was faster than a GTX 680, and cheaper (and I speak as one who owns both).
 

Rock_n_Rolla

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IMO

The thing with the Green team and their products and how they
released it in the past couple of years, sometimes its kinda frustrating
to buy their high end models like their upcoming GTX 1180, knowing that
your bragging rights will be short lived in a couple of months because
of their "Ti" series which always comes late and they always consider
it their fastest on every series in their lineup (except those
specialized models like the titan, XP and etc.) tho there's nothing wrong
about it dont get me wrong guys.
To those who are eager to buy the base 1180 model and cant wait to
play the current demanding games and or preparing for the upcoming
releases well,.. i suggest you wait a bit and buy its "Ti" model, with that
you'll have a bit longer bragging rights as compared to buying the base
model and will enjoy its performance until the green team release a much
better model.

Regarding its specs, i bet the base 1180 is gonna be either on a 9 or 10gb
of VRAM and the Ti is gonna be on 11 or 12gb.
 

anbello262

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If those performance expectations are even close to true, I'll definitively get the 1180ti as soon as avilable. I'm used to buying 'the old geberation' cards (i have a 980ti since the 1080 launched), but this time I'll get the new one.
Sounds like a really big improvement that can *actually* play 4k @maxed settings.
 

bit_user

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Agreed that they shouldn't, but I'm not sure that's what's going on..


WTF? No.

Hz is a measure of frequency. In video and graphics, it's normally used to describe monitor refresh rates (which used to be fixed - at least for a given video mode - until recently). So, it would make sense to talk about a card being powerful enough to reasonably drive a 120 Hz monitor or VR HMD. That's not saying the card actually produces a solid 120 fps, but rather that it produced close enough for the result to be usable. In such a statement, it would be inaccurate to substitute FPS for Hz.
 

TJ Hooker

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@bit_user I think he meant that even some very weak GPUs are capable of outputting a 4K/120Hz signal. It would just need a DP 1.3 or higher output (or HDMI 2.1), meaning something like a GT 1030 could do it.
 

bit_user

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I'm sure you don't need me to tell you that a trend does not necessarily indicate some fundamental law of nature, or even economics.

At this level, Nvidia is running unopposed - and that doesn't look set to change, for a while. So, the logical thing for them to do would be to price it relative to their existing product stack. The only thing we can say is that if it costs more than a 1080 Ti or Titan Xp, it should also perform better. Though, not commensurate with perf/$, since that measure drops off sharply, as you get into the Titan territory.

Back when the 1080 launched, I got a 980 Ti for about $450, which was about the same price as 1070's (its performance equal of the 10-generation). I don't foresee that happening again, since the 1070 had pricing pressure from Fury, whereas the 1080 Ti retains a strong lead over anything from AMD.

The one thing I don't see is them unnecessarily undercutting themselves. Over time, they can drop their prices and slot in new models. Especially as the competition begins to show up.

Something on which I think we can all agree is that Nvidia is very good at maximizing profit margins.
 

TJ Hooker

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As far as I can tell this trend has held true for every generation of consumer CPU and GPU. If you can show me an example of a GPU that launched with an MSRP such that it didn't offer greater perf/$ than a previous gen part did when it launched, I'd be very surprised. If you look at the last 6 generations of GTX [#]80 cards from Nvidia, there has only been one case where the MSRP wasn't either $500 or $550 (GTX 780 for $650). The launch price of a GTX [X]80 has always been less than the launch price of the GTX [X-1]80 Ti (although there's only two generations of data for that). To suggest the 1180 is going to be $1000 is a pretty bold claim, and the author presents no evidence to back that up, other than a line of reasoning that flies in the face of all historical evidence.

Back when the 1080 launched, I got a 980 Ti for about $450, which was about the same price as 1070's (its performance equal of the 10-generation).
The 980 Ti had an MSRP of $650 at launch, the 1070 was $400, the 1080 was $550. Therefore both cards from the new generation brought an increase in perf/$. The fact that you were able to get a 980 Ti for $200 less than MSRP sort of proves my point that previous gen cards are sold at reduced prices in order to remain competitive with the newer gen.

I don't foresee that happening again, since the 1070 had pricing pressure from Fury, whereas the 1080 Ti retains a strong lead over anything from AMD.
The one thing I don't see is them unnecessarily undercutting themselves. Over time, they can drop their prices and slot in new models. Especially as the competition begins to show up.
They still compete with their own existing cards when it comes to selling more cards. There was recent news about how large a portion of Nvidia GPU sales were for crypto mining, and how that was starting to dry up. If they want to keep sales volume up, it makes sense that they'd release new cards with better perf/$ (as well as absolute performance) to encourage people to keep buying new cards.

Edit: Well, I do feel a little silly, in that this very post contained an example of a card that offered worse perf/$ compared to a previous gen part based on launch MSRP: the GTX 780. Still, I feel this is a rare exception (and the 780 MSRP dropped to $500 within half a year of launching).
 

Krazie_Ivan

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i think TJ & Bit are both right, but "history" & "unopposed" are factors at odds this launch. when there's zero practical competition for the 1st time, it's hard to estimate msrp... we've just got no trend/model to apply.

...if Nvidia scalps consumers for $1000 (or even $800), i'll quit gaming upgrades entirely & talk everyone i can out of it too until sanity is restored. i have other hobbies & interests.
 

bit_user

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Except you cut out the meat of my argument, which went something like this:
GTX 1070, GTX 980 Ti, and AMD Fury X all had comparable performance. Falling prices on Fury established a sort of ceiling on GTX 1070 pricing, and GTX 980 Ti dropped to approximately match. It's not that they were trying to undercut their own products - the 1070's pricing was largely aimed at denying market share to AMD and the 980 Ti's margins were collateral damage.


Right. But I view pricing and new product introductions as logically separate. If demand remains robust for current products at current pricing, then we should expect little or no price movement of those products and the new ones will slot in above. If demand drops off, then we should expect to see price cuts, no matter if they're on existing products or new products being offered at improved perf/$.

I guess the question is whether demand is already dropping. We see prices finally returning to near-MSRP levels, but I think that's still above where they'd normally be, at this point in the generation's life. I think the timing of the launch is not so much to create new demand as that the new product is ready and they can't realistically keep it bottled up much longer.
 

bit_user

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BTW, I'm hoping the new, proprietary connector is to enable ultra low-latency wireless. For that, you'd need to do some on-the-fly compression.

Also, you'd want frame readout duration to be significantly less than 1 frame interval. In protocols like HDMI and DisplayPort, I think the clock is driven by the format, so readout duration is always somewhere close to a frame interval. This is one reason I'd always thought we'd need a new interface, or at least a bump of the HDMI or DP revision to optimally support VR.
 

Zaporro

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"According to TweakTown, the card will be capable of playing 4K games at 120Hz to 144Hz."

Nice bullshit out there. Nearly every modern GPU can output a video signal to sync with 120Hz and 144Hz refresh rate monitors.

What authors meant was that it will able to provide 120 to 144FPS in 4k? I would expect that Tom's Hardware, the site for ultimate enthusiasts would care for quality of information they post but it seems Tom's recently went for copy-paste without giving second thought what they write.
 

papality

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If a single 1180 can drive AAA games in 4K at 144 FPS, that would be, what, the single greatest compute performance generation to generation we've ever seen?

That alone makes it extremely unlikely, never you even mind factors like NVIDIA's 2-year milk cycle of Pascal, their usage of the mid-range 04 die as allegedly high-end, the lack of competition, the crypto market, the RAM market, the surety of superior impending Titan and Ti versions, etc., etc.
 

Somasonic

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Bingo.



And this. Exactly.

 

4freedomssake

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I don’t want to bottle neck this thing once I get it, if I can afford it in a year and a half. Do you think the Ryzen 5 would be an okay choice at this time to build a system?
 

logainofhades

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Wrong. Ram shortages have caused this as well. Can't make cards if the memory isn't there.
 

mellis

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Less expensive $999 model. Lol! You should be able to play any game displayed at 4K and maxed out on details for these prices, but I doubt they will. Even if they can, still not worth the money IMHO.
 

fmydog

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If these msrps seem expensive well then buy with a loan. Mine cryptos and cross your fingers. At the very least you will learn something before they repo that shiny new gpu
 
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