NVIDIA possibly abandoning mid and high end market

[randomizer]

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-kills-gtx285-gtx275-gtx260-abandons-mid-and-high-end-market/

According to Charlie, The GTX260, 275 and 285 are all EOL within weeks if not already. Take with a grain of salt, obviously. Also, expect NVIDIA PR to deny the whole thing, and for said PR response to show up on Fuddo.

IMO Charlie is milking the "success" of his previous article and using the opportunity to send NVIDIA's public image through the floor.

EDIT: Nice contradictory article right before it too: http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/10/06/nvidia-will-crater-gtx260-and-gtx275-prices-soon/ :lol:

I love Charlie, he certainly knows how to take the "professional" out of the journalist profession.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

The way I see it is, ATI came out as soon as they could, at ramp up, not after it, and thats why theres so few currently available, and EOLing their old cards only makes sense.

Normally, on a good hard launch, a company will have stock dispersed all around in good quantities, but several things made this release different. The economy for one, keeping things tighter than normal, low inventories, and also, waiting to get the feel of the market in this economy, but even more than that was to get as early a jump on things as possible, make impressions, show up the competition, have a decent entry price, which will maintain just that much longer.

As for nVidia? Im not sure. I do know that the G200s do cost more, and saw a somewhat accurate listing on pricing between the G200 and the 4xxx series, and margins are already slim, and to have to lower them for last gens top card to compete on down, the new gen only puts more pressure on everyone involved, and nVidias partners, as well as nVidia doesnt want to get stuck with alot of inventory they just cant sell.
Ive heard theres alot of design wins in the lower end and mobile for them, which is fine, and the high end has been a disaster for them, as their margins were cut right away, and have sunk much futher since, andtheir backbone, the G92 is but a mobile solution today, which again, is selling ok from what I hear, tho Im sure theyve taken a beating because of the "bumpgate" scenario.

What worries me the most here is, its gone from "just wait and see what nVidia has coming" to, exactly what DO they have coming? This isnt a fanboy rant here against them, and I really do hope they have a few surprises up their sleeves, cause they need them at this point, and Ive said before, I like my ATI and all things red, but wish no great ill on nVidia, but it may be, this whole going large/single strategy has really hurt them, especially, since theres no sign of shrunk down DX11 type G200s at 40nm.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this does concern me, and am hoping nVidia has something decent coming soon, just not "too" decent, heheh

 

[mactronix]

Well they say they (Nvidia) are strong at the low end chipset and mobile markets and they are going after the CPGPU sector in a big way. So it could be that they are opting out of the mainstream GPU market just for now while they concentrate on where they are winning, recession and all it could just be that the powers that be (accountants) basically told the board that its this or go bankrupt. Nothing stopping them making a revision mainstream CPGPU part further down the line is there.
Maybe they were worried about competing with intel with two very similar products ?

Mactronix

 

[Amiga500]

When is the 5XXX mobility series due?

Surely with the low idle power - that will put a massive dent in Nvidia's mobile "design wins".

 

[JofaMang]

"This puppy here, is Fermi"

 

[JofaMang]

Sorry, double post somehow, its been years!

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I don't have a problem with his theory, just that he writes 2 pages of text on one topic saying that prices are going down and there's no shortage of supply, then an hour later "word reaches [him]" that suddenly the cards are EOL. At least he should try and verify his info before writing up two articles that oppose each other that close together.

Read harder homer, they don't conflict.
It's because of the production problems, and the the cost of the chips, where they are forced to reduce prices to sell chips (instead of leaving them on shelves), now instead of continuing this money-losing practice, they will cut production.

If you look at article 1, the theory behind article two is imbeded right there in the middle;

"So to minimize price protection costs, the chip makers balance the number of parts in the channel keeping them to a bare minimum around product or price transition times. It is an art, half black art, half luck with a sprinkle of science topped off with a bit of competitive intelligence."

Also remember people, the EOL issue is not about completely holding back chips, it's more about not letting AIBs stockpile in order to be bulk discounts and undercut AMD & nV's profits. They are trying to low-ball AMD & nV, and finally both of them said, ENOUGH! We're giving you just in time delivery. I doubt anyone who's had a good relationship with the two and didn't try this tactic (essentially of trying to only sell old part not new ones), is getting better treatment, but anyone who sandbags their productions/sales to increase their end and greatly damage the IHVs implementation and development strategies, get dropped. I have no sympathy for them. Customers might like low-balling (or free-balling 😗 ) but I prefer technology and product advancement thanks.

Charlie's articles are beyond the length that my brain will allow me to read in their entirety without losing interest. So I didn't get through the whole thing, and therefore it may not have been as contradictory I think had I read it all.

And to me that's the problem, just like reviews, no one reads anymore, but everyone has strong opinions. Those 150 words are like the graphs in a review, no substance to give an indication if the person is just spouting FUD or BS, or is there reasoning behind the statements. I'd always rather more information than less, but then again I write long posts too, for the same reason, to make sure it's clear.

Only Fuad has managed to do better (contradictory articles within 10 minutes of each other), but he writes 150 words, not 2 pages.

I think Charlie should just delete his titles and force people to read the articles, less issues that way, and less people who only cursorily (if that's a word) read his stuff and get annoyed at the gist of it. I also prefer Charlie's 60% success rate to FUDO's 40% (at best) success rate. But I wouldn't invest my money in what either says, I listen to the changing wind, and the voices in my head, which change pitch with the wind. :lol:

 

[JofaMang]

"Cursory" is the word you were looking for.

 

[4745454b]

I agree with ape here.

OK, so what specifically is your problem with his theory? Other than it's not good for nVidia? I'd like a counterpoint, not just Charlie-bashing.

A theory has been put forth. Might be outlandish, but it also might possibly be true. Other then attacking the source, can anyone attack the logic? Is there some flaw in the theory that can be pointed out? Yes, it comes from Charlie, but show us where the math is wrong. I believe it paints a picture to bleak for Nvidia, so its probably a fanboi rant. Certainly the leaders of a company as great as Nvidia wouldn't allow it to come to this. However, I'm also smart enough to read what Charlie wrote, and say "wait a second, could this be true?"

 

[jsh1284]

Nvidia couldn't dare do such a thing. Why? They have all those crappy game manufacturers building their games with optimizations to run t3h Geforces. >_>

 

[extremedition]

It is nonsense http://www.driverheaven.net/news/190637-nvidia-does-not-abandon-mid-high-end-market.html

 

[jennyh]

It is nonsense http://www.driverheaven.net/news/190637-nvidia-does-not-abandon-mid-high-end-market.html

None of the ads on Semi-accurate are paid for by AMD.

One fanboy says its nonsense <> it's nonsense.

 

[Dekasav]

While I don't think this is true, I don't remember ever seeing an AMD ad on Semi-Accurate.

 

[extremedition]

None of the ads on Semi-accurate are paid for by AMD.

One fanboy says its nonsense <> it's nonsense.

there are amd ads on it now and Zardon at driverheaven isnt an nvidia fanboy, they have AMD skins and work with AMD all the time. they got a quote from nvidia and posted it.

What a weird forum this is.

 

[Mousemonkey]

None of the ads on Semi-accurate are paid for by AMD.

One fanboy says its nonsense <> it's nonsense.

While I don't think this is true, I don't remember ever seeing an AMD ad on Semi-Accurate.

Apart from this one :-

and this one:-

Unless it's a different way of spelling Nvidia and Inhell. :lol:

 

[maximiza]

Nvidia is DOOMED!!!!! unless they release something soon.

 

[jennyh]

Those ads aren't paid for by AMD, if you mouse over or click them you'd see that. 😛

 

[Guest]

Charlie is one big lair and he is paid to screw nvidia...

 

[extremedition]

So let me clarify. I wanted to help you guys get information on this so you could educate yourself on Nvidias stance. You have basically just told me to go die. Clearly the loyalty for specific brands just makes people capable of wanting other people dead.

Thanks guys, lovely forum you got here, and top job from the moderators !

 

[jennyh]

So let me clarify. I wanted to help you guys get information on this so you could educate yourself on Nvidias stance. You have basically just told me to go die. Clearly the loyalty for specific brands just makes people capable of wanting other people dead.

Thanks guys, lovely forum you got here, and top job from the moderators !

And I simply educated you on the facts regarding the 'AMD ads' which are actually ads for a reseller and not from AMD.

That alone brings the whole post into question. I mean come on, what do you really expect Nvidia to say?

 

[extremedition]

well at least in two months you will know if Nvidia are lying. I guess if they release a card capable of nailing the 5870 it wont matter to you anyway. I used to think Nvidia fanboys on some of their home sites were mentally challenged but its clear the guys in red have a little inbreeding going on as well.

Funny as hell though, these forums are hilarious. its like tech for teenage girls 😛

 

[nforce4max]

Don't expect things to get any better soon not with high manufacturing cost due metals prices and the poor economy. The reduction of product is deliberate not just high cost but are doing so as stated in previous posts that Nvidia and ATI are trying to limit available stock in spite of demand from such companies like EVGA. Even the solder joints now cost more all thanks to the rise in silver prices and for the interconnects gold is at a all time high. So in short the cards cost more to manufacture than they are worth for a profit much less brake even for other expenses. As for the GT300 Nvidia has to target all price points or at least the mid range for the consumer and professional to stay afloat. ATI however so long it maintains it's current dominance in the budget and mid range it will do very well while the high end is just icing on the cake. Intel will learn what it is like to be AMD when chips don't sale like they had once did but for AMD a further shrink in market share will most likely happen. Note it will not be much fun when international trade gets hit with a major setback in a years time.

 

[4745454b]

Thanks for the link. Wow, what a shocker, Nvidia says it isn't so. I did see some interesting thing.

Charlie also goes on to say : "With the cancellation of the GTX285, GTX275, and GTX260, possibly the GTX295 too, Nvidia is abandoning the entire high end and mid-range graphics market. Expect a reprise in January on the low end.

So charlie expect them to abandon the mid and high end now, followed by the low end later. What are they supposed to sell then? Does Charlie expect them to leave the business because AMD came out with a couple of good cards?

a few of them said they have quite low supplies of GTX285 and GTX295. This however can not be simply interpreted as a 'worrying' issue for Nvidia users because as many of our readers will know they actually have a new range of cards out very shortly to compete against the current range of DX11 boards from AMD

Could this be whats going on? Charlie hears that stockpiles are low, so he assumes they are pulling out due to the cost/profit they get on the cards? He knows they are bleeding, so perhaps this is the assumption he's making. (never mind all the money they probably have seeing as they've been selling G80 in one form or another for the last how many years?) They might even be EOL the GTX cards, only because they have the g300 coming. If that's the case G300 better get here soon. (rumored to be how many months away?)

 

[randomizer]

And to me that's the problem, just like reviews, no one reads anymore, but everyone has strong opinions. Those 150 words are like the graphs in a review, no substance to give an indication if the person is just spouting FUD or BS, or is there reasoning behind the statements. I'd always rather more information than less, but then again I write long posts too, for the same reason, to make sure it's clear.

I always read reviews, I just have issues with tl;dr on a single page. If you split 3000 words over 6 pages it is easier to get through than all on one page, at least for me. Damn subconscious laziness!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Anyone see this?
"Nvidia has confirmed that the company has essentially placed its Nforce chipset line on hiatus, given the legal wrangling between itself and Intel.

According to Robert Sherbin, the lead corporate communications spokesman for Nvidia, Nvidia will "postpone further chipset investments".

Sherbin also dismissed a report that Nvidia was pulling out of the mid-range and high-end GPU market as "patently untrue". But Nvidia's recent chip introductions do imply a shift in the graphics company's traditional stance is underway."
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2353936,00.asp

More of the same.
Now, since Charlies already been attacked and condemned here, weve seen article after article confirming things, plus with Apes info of the sellers trying to do a end around on both nVidia an ATI, Im sure at this point it could be anything, because it looks like anything could happen.

Ive been following Charlie more lately, not because Im a fanboy, nor because I like contoversy over fact, but like Ape said, I too follow the wind, and its been pushing me to Charlies writings lately.
And, again like Ape, its not something that you can stick with, but right now, and for a short while, Charlies been very right about a lot of things.
Of all the people I read, all I know, theres maybe 2 leads I'll really pay attention to, and thats it, though theres tons of others who have been right on for short durations, as their contacts are hitting it head on.

 

[randomizer]

Sherbin also dismissed a report that Nvidia was pulling out of the mid-range and high-end GPU market as "patently untrue".

Surprise, surprise. 😀