Nvidia vs ATI 2010

[welshmousepk]

exactly as i said.

i know of the VRM throttling issue, but the fact that its only reproducible when running an application thats far more intensive than real world usage of the card would be, proves its not really an issue.

furmark causes many cards to overheat, would you say those cards are unstable? no, furmark is just a program that places too much stress on a cards that aren't designed for that.

its very simple to overclock the card, which is then entirely stable (tohugh consumes 400w). and when overclcocked its miles ahead of the 295.
but to argue otherwise would be pure fanboyism. the 295s are old tech. its fermi ATI need to be prepared for. as is the point of this discussion.

ATI, hands down, offer better cards at the enthusiast level. but until fermi comes along, we have no idea if they will continue to do so throughout the year.

 

[4745454b]

ATI, hands down, offer better cards at the enthusiast level. but until fermi comes along, we have no idea if they will continue to do so throughout the year.

Correct and well said. And thats the cause of so much debate, will they continue to do so.

 

[Amiga500]

they had to downclock considerably because of heat issues. the card would throttle itself down (powerplay) when it reaches 100c. so you lending a blind eye on and keep on pointing at it as an ATX issue...... fan BOY.

Before labelling someone a fan boy, you'd do well to check your information.


The 5970 was clocked to stay within the pic-sig envelope at stock.


Not because of VRM heat issues.

 

[1898]

Except we don't know if any of them are true...... any info on that right now is just as fake as those graphs, aside from the power usage. But we already knew it would use a lot of power for such a huge chip, how EFFICIENT it is with that power is what matters... not how much it uses. Expensive... probably, you pay a premium for performance, and it probably WILL perform because that is how nVidia builds cards, and if it doesn't then nVidia would be stupid to release anything at all. Hot and noisy, you have no idea and neither do I, nor does anyone else on these forums or the internet, so stop spreading rumours >.<

First off, I never said it's a fact but the latest CES news seem to confirm it. I for one trust those who've been in Vegas more than your google skills, frankly though, you seem to be pulling those numbers out of your arse. The 295 is expensive as well, I guess 'premium for performance' applies here as well, right? :lol:

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Lets put it this way. If a game ever took advantage of the ATI cards do like on those test benches, you wouldnt need a oc at all

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

My figures are not off, google it for yourself,

Just like googling Fermi Pictured will get you a mock-up of a card with wood screws?

I wouldn't trust nVidiai's statement of 225W anymore than their statement that 'this is it' while holding up a mock-up.

And it's an issue because that's a SINGLE GPU where the heat is in a far more dense package than the HD5870 or 5970, which makes it tougher on the cooling system to remove the heat fast enough.

yea both the 5870 and 5970 are both bigger than the 295.

Only if you have the dual PCB model, the SINGLE PCB model is longer than the 5870.

Not that the length matters that much for most hardcore gaming rigs, just like heat management doesn't matter much in a good gaming rig either if you have good circulation, but it does matter to the discussion of a possible dual-GPU model which just ain't gonna happen if it's already pulling 300W on a single GPU.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

they had to downclock considerably because of heat issues. the card would throttle itself down (powerplay) when it reaches 100c. so you lending a blind eye on and keep on pointing at it as an ATX issue...... fan BOY.

Well you're both wrong, but don't let that stop any of you.
It's PCI-SIG not ATX that is the issue, heat is another problem (for all IHVs), but not THE reason.

They couldn't get it to happen in games, but it would happen when they ran a program who's name escapes me.

Probably FURmark, it's the stress test dujour, and cranks GPUs well beyond what any games will do and it's keeps doing it without any let-up which puts a sustained load on parts and heat builds up. Many cards, would heat up to fail if left unchecked (which is why it's not a good burn-in tool), especially those that barely fit in the thermal envelope, and I doubt that Fermi will do well with such a test if the thermal rumours are even 80% true.

 

[welshmousepk]

in the reviews i'd read, they had definitely pegged it as an ATX issue. because of the 300w limit on the ATX standard. of course that doesn't mean they are correct.

so whats the PCI-SIG then? im assuming its something very similar?

my orginal point is still valid though. the card was downclocked to meet a requirement, not because of performance issues. and its still true that you can easily clock a 5970 back up to 5870 levels.

 

[yannifb]

Hey did you guys see that MSI Lightning 5870 on the CES day 3 article? That card just looks like a beast, imagine how far you can push it!

 

[wh3resmycar]

The 5970 was clocked to stay within the pic-sig envelope at stock.

pci-sig like what tgga said, i know, i've read about that weeks ago @ guru3d. what i find funny is that the other dude keeps on saying that its an atx issue.

a stock 5970 will reach almost 90c (depends whether your room is airconditioned or not; most review sites does). and a 125mhz oc on its 2 cores would yield higher temp readings. sure its good for benchmarks, but on a day to day basis, assuming you spend most of your time fragging people on the net with a gun as oppose to nuthugging a brandname on messageboards, its rightfully on the edge.

maybe amd hit 2 birds with 1 stone, by lowering those clocks. i believe with a proper cooling system, liquid preferably, the card would be more impressive than it is.

my personal opinion, anything within 2 feet of me that is almost hot enough to boil water gets my spider sense tingling.

 

[welshmousepk]

you do know you can adjust fan speeds right?

at 850/1200 with fan speeds at 70 percent (still quieter than a 4890 at stock)the temps stay around 70c.

the reason i say it was an atx issue, is because thats what has been said in several reviews. forgive me for trusting their knowledge more than your own.

an OCd 4890 will run hotter than an OCd 5970. if heat really bothers you, then Overclocking simply shouldn't be a concern to you. im talking performance numbers here. and you are trying to discredit the performance of a card because you dont like how hot it gets? even though temps are perfectly safe?

im sure this argument will continue from here, but yours has no basis. if you dont like how hot it is, dont buy one. but to try to make out the card is somehow underperforming is laughable.

and as for your theory that the overclock only amounts to benchamrk improvements, again if you had actually checked out any reviews of the card you would realize the overclock usually adds ten to twenty frame per second in most games. bringing it up to par with two 5870s in crossfire.

you have obviously done absolutely no research here, so if you wish to keep making these claims then go ahead. it entertains me.

to add a few quotes:

overclockers club
http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_radeon_5970/17.htm

was able to reach clock speeds of 890MHz on the core and 1260MHz on the memory, with power consumption peaking at 486 watts on the system under load with temperatures that reached 69 degrees Celsius

this link to tweak town: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3014/sapphire_radeon_hd_5970_2gb_overclocked/index13.html

With the voltage and clock speeds bumped up, the temps seem to also rise slightly. It's nothing to worry about, though.

Overclocking is pretty easy; the clocks you're able to get are insane and the performance increase that we receive when overclocked is nothing short of fantastic. With a bit of time and patience you're going to get better performance than a HD 5870 CF setup for a cheaper price.

both of these overvolted to reach ABOVE 5870 speeds, while staying below 70 degrees. and WITHOUT going to 100 percent fan speed.

there are plenty more examples if you do a simple google search.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://www.tweak.dk/nyheder2.php?id=22680
Element V Nvidia Edition chassis also incorporated graphic card “air duct” system engineered by Thermaltake and Nvidia to provide added cooling for high-performance 3-way SLI or Quad SLI setup based on Nvidia’s next generation of enthusiast graphic card. The proprietary “air duct” system brings cool and fresh air directly from the outside of the chassis and accelerates it to graphic card’s intake to increase heat displacement and achieve optimal cooling efficiency. Without Nvidia SLI certified chassis, system powered by the next generation of high-performance graphic cards may not be able to operate at their highest setting due to inadequate cooling.


It seems using multi cards setups for Fermi may be a problem, and its these things that make us think itll be hot and use alot of power.
Why do you think the power envelope is set at 300watts? Its required space, displacing case heat, and size all making for a tougher scenario to reach workable solutions, as in the 5970 and as we see with multi Fermi setuips, as nVidias partners have colloborated with them to hep these scenarios

 

[yose3]

i been nvidia fanboy from the begining..... but i realise how good the competition "nvidia vs ATI" is....

because of that we now have card like the 5000 siries or card that coming like the Fermi...

if Nvidia didnt have ATI for competition i think by now we were gona be using like the 8000 series of Nvidia for like 400$ or who know...

Anyway the reason why i like nvidia is because of the features
if you really are a harcore gamer you will go for nvidia because of physicx,3D Vision because you dont want the game "extreme performance" you just want to enjoy the game that it

thay proven that your GPU is not just for gaming anymore you can use it for application and other thing too.

this is my personal opinion

now if im a fan boy i just buy a card because is faster? what the point of that?

faster frame rate?? DX11?
well if of alot of the game i play need DX11 ok i will go for it because DX11 mean better graphic which mean i will enjoy the visual of the game ect.

so everything is about enjoying the game not having the Best Performance Card.you can buy cheap card that can play almost any game with no problem what so ever.im not saying that ATI card suck or anything im just saying the reason why i chose nvidia infact thanks to ATI fanboy because thank to them we have card like the one we have now.

conclution is that the competition turn out to be good doesnt matter what side you in because that what keeps the technology moving.

 

[4745454b]

I think my head hurts now.

now if im a fan boy i just buy a card because is faster? what the point of that?

No, if your a fanboy you'll buy the Nvidia card simply because its made by Nvidia. I'll buy the faster card and laugh at you.

 

[yose3]

I think my head hurts now.

now if im a fan boy i just buy a card because is faster? what the point of that?

No, if your a fanboy you'll buy the Nvidia card simply because its made by Nvidia. I'll buy the faster card and laugh at you.

ok u will laugh and i dont care OR gIVE A ****

 

[bystander]

ok u will laugh and i dont care OR gIVE A ****

You ruined your first post. The first post had me puzzled, and at least let me with the impression you at least understood why you perchased your cards. And almost understood that you were a fanboy and didn't care and did like the fact that people supporting the other side was good.

This post just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Just except that you are a fanboy, and others won't have much more to say.

 

[4745454b]

and others won't have much more to say.

I came so close to just hitting backspace and not saying anything. I think my headache got the better of me.

 

[yose3]

You ruined your first post. The first post had me puzzled, and at least let me with the impression you at least understood why you perchased your cards. And almost understood that you were a fanboy and didn't care and did like the fact that people supporting the other side was good.

This post just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Just except that you are a fanboy, and others won't have much more to say.

ok..... +1? lol

 

[marney_5]

Nvidia will probably pull out something monumentally awesome but monumentally expensive in the near future!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Just like the 7800GTX 512

 

[Mousemonkey]

I wonder what the Asus Ares is going to cost?

 

[RealityRush]

First off, I never said it's a fact but the latest CES news seem to confirm it. I for one trust those who've been in Vegas more than your google skills, frankly though, you seem to be pulling those numbers out of your arse. The 295 is expensive as well, I guess 'premium for performance' applies here as well, right? :lol:

Hmmm, afk'd this thread for a while apparently, a whole crap ton of posts showed up .... but yes, it does apply here, before the 5970's it was the fastest card, so you paid more for it. It's price is still high now just cause nVidia likes to price gouge as much as the next guy, that and they are losing money on selling the 200 series cards now anyways...

Although to throw out some info for the original topic, nVidia did better in 2009 and from the looks of how it ended with the 5800's, might do better again in 2010.

http://www.techeye.net/chips/nvidia-beats-amd-even-without-fermi

So apparently, even after releasing the 5800s ATI lost marketshare in the discrete market, suprisingly though Intel stole from both of them. Apparently that guy predicts nVidia stealing some of that back and they said they already have, not to mention Fermi is coming, so.... yeah, I'm kinda worried for ATIs future, I really don't want to see them go down, they sell good stuff and keep pricing down >.<

 

[thamajickwan]

Hmm, super fast memory of ati with a good nvidia card for phys x

Before the trolls and orks come along swinging stupidity with there clubs do a little homework it IS possible

By the way, wait untill you see what nvidia is working on that is leaning more toward the 6 and 8 core processors

Did I mention they did cuda and have accomplished a real sterioscopic 3D

ATI is currently the winner on memory speed though ddr6 is already developed but think about it like this
If I have the best motherboard ram videocard and processor ssd in the world running on windows 95 its not as capable as a computer half that running windows 7


Don

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

This thread is long over, find a new one.