Occupy Wall Street

[dogman_1234]

Tea Party- even less educated assholes lol
Same applies, of course, in that it's not true.
I always found the whole idea of "science huggers" being a negative thing kinda ridiculous. Science is supposed to be the most truthful, perfect way of thinking.
^jay if you applied that logic to just about any major political group, you could say the same thing. Republicans, for instance, have all kinds of

Yet, many corrupt it...like in Religion. Science is a man-made institution.

 

[kajabla]

No, science HAS man-made institutions. That may be the origin of anti-science sentiment: people confuse the science with the scientists. Science itself is a pure concept based on answering questions through logic and experiment, but people see it instead as the sum total of all the lapses in judgment and morality that have occurred in scientific fields.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

The Tea party has been maligned, and the press and others have made accusations, but has been asked to supply proof, and they just MOVE ON and ignore after the smear
If youre new, you need to show well
The TEA party is new, theyve done this, with greater numbers, and have people elected from their movement
Does anyone possibly agree that the OWS will have elected officials down the road?

 

[kajabla]

This is true, and it applies to OWS as well. There are some crazy TP members that give the rest a bad rap.
I wouldn't say that OWS will "have" elected officials, since they're not actually a political party, but I think they will have the power to affect appointments to office, yes.

 

[dogman_1234]

No, science HAS man-made institutions. That may be the origin of anti-science sentiment: people confuse the science with the scientists. Science itself is a pure concept based on answering questions through logic and experiment, but people see it instead as the sum total of all the lapses in judgment and morality that have occurred in scientific fields.

In laymens term: Science is good, but it is the scientists who screw crap up for Shyts and Giggles?

 

[kajabla]

Science is good, but a COUPLE of scientists screw crap up for personal gain, and that makes people think that "science-huggers" are bad.

 

[blackhawk1928]

Now you're doing it too. A couple of anti-Semite jerks showing up at the protests doesn't define the message of the majority. Their neighbors at the gatherings can't stop them from expressing their bigoted opinions, but that doesn't mean that everyone around them shares those views.
They want to radically change the American economy, yes. They're not going for a clean slate; they're going for reforms.

The entire group at OWS are a bunch of uneducated parasites and criminals. I've seen tons of videos of interviews with people there and all of them were unemployed low lifes with signs "Tax the rich".

They do not understand the following things:
-The problem
-Who is causing the problem
-Why the problem is caused
-And how to fix it

The protest is just meaningless.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Until they recognize theyre part of the problem, what theyre doing is pointless

 

[blackhawk1928]

Until they recognize theyre part of the problem, what theyre doing is pointless

Could not have said it any better. You summarized my entire rant into one sentence. Props.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

But thatd take responsibility, and is why showing all those hippies, fornicators, socialists, communists, racists etc, and not having to remove them, nor take responsibility for them, shows that they never will take responsibility.
Until we demand a more responsible government willing to take on some of the OWS points, as well as many others, like stop the spending you fools, we too are responsible

 

[dogman_1234]

Everyone is the problem. We all, (erm...YOU guys,) let this get out of control. Don't point fingers 'cuz you have three pointed back at you.

 

[kajabla]

But thatd take responsibility, and is why showing all those hippies, fornicators, socialists, communists, racists etc, and not having to remove them, nor take responsibility for them, shows that they never will take responsibility.
Until we demand a more responsible government willing to take on some of the OWS points, as well as many others, like stop the spending you fools, we too are responsible

How do you propose "removing" those who give them a bad name? Have a bunch of people walk up to somebody who looks particularly hippie-like or somebody carrying a racist sign and announce "You aren't useful to this protest! Go home!"? It's all very well to say that there are bad influences present and that they shouldn't be there, but that doesn't get them to stop.
Also, socialism shouldn't be grouped with fornication, communism and racism. It's a legitimate political system that has succeeded in some countries (Scandinavian area, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model).

Yes, +1 JD.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If they want threir own protest, let them create their own, and yes, have them booed, banned, shouted down, not accepted, alert police,make it a point at least, on the microphones, the mega phones etc etc, and dont stop, dont let up, and see their true intent, and those commies, racists etc response.
If theyre a group, their first responsibility is to get their word out properly, dutifully and correctly

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Id add, allowing for this huge tent of ideas washes the good intent of the majority down the tubes, as long as theyre so tolerant of such activities.
The right has often been maligned becasuse of the lines theyve chosen in the sand, its time for the left to do so as well

 

[kajabla]

It's difficult to have any lines in the sand at all because there's such a broad spectrum of opinion. There will always be someone in between major opinions. The right has a few lines on particular issues, but even those are fairly vague.
The issue with public protests is that you cannot disallow a "tent of ideas," for the same reason you can't stop the protests from happening in the first place. Anyone can show up there and express their own opinions, regardless of what outsiders see as the main message.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

It's difficult to have any lines in the sand at all because there's such a broad spectrum of opinion. There will always be someone in between major opinions. The right has a few lines on particular issues, but even those are fairly vague.
The issue with public protests is that you cannot disallow a "tent of ideas," for the same reason you can't stop the protests from happening in the first place. Anyone can show up there and express their own opinions, regardless of what outsiders see as the main message.

If this is a true position to take, expect the endorsements of : David Duke of the KKK, North Korea, the Nazi and communist parties, Iran etc etc

 

[kajabla]

That's the thing. If they wanted to endorse OWS, nobody could stop them! They don't do it, because the movement doesn't share their opinions, but as we can see, there are racists, anarchists etc who share some of their views with OWS, and nobody can stop them from adding their voices.

 

[kajabla]

Right. I'd love to talk to him or one of his supporters face-to-face and vivisect each of his points to see how they don't work, but I can't stop him from putting his own face on OWS.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/18365-OWS-in-defense-of-North-Korea.html
Found this interesting

 

[kajabla]

North Korea is a failed example of socialism, yes. There are terrible things there. The USSR was another one. Scandinavian countries, on the other hand, seem to be doing pretty well. They combine some of the best aspects of the competing systems, keeping both the safety net and private ownership of property.

Jeez, those people are pretty dumb. I like the guy with the puffy hair who applies the same phrases to every situation.

 

[blackhawk1928]

Socialism does not work. The guy in the video was absolutely correct. History has taught us clear and simple that when too much power falls into the hands of too few, it will be abused. Secondly, socialism goes against human nature, the system itself is just unnatural which doesn't allow it to work anywhere for too long.

Albert Einstein said once "When a person tries the same thing and expects different results, is the first sign of insanity" or something like that. Thats why people trying to establish this system here in the U.S are simply insane.

And the video clearly shows the intellectual level of OWS protestors...its just hilarious.

 

[kajabla]

If you're going to respond to my post, at least respond to my post. What about the countries that have adopted mostly-socialist systems with success, namely the Scandinavian group? They skipped the flawed system of total government control, but they kept the high taxes and big government, and it worked.
It shows the intellectual level of SOME OWS protesters. Those people were obviously completely ignorant, but that does not have to reflect on the group as a whole.

 

[blackhawk1928]

If you're going to respond to my post, at least respond to my post. What about the countries that have adopted mostly-socialist systems with success, namely the Scandinavian group? They skipped the flawed system of total government control, but they kept the high taxes and big government, and it worked.
It shows the intellectual level of SOME OWS protesters. Those people were obviously completely ignorant, but that does not have to reflect on the group as a whole.

Lets see..Europe has atrocious healthcare, they have absurd taxation on the wealthy and have absurd anti-corporation laws that REALLY discourage business. Look at Greece...socialist...bankrupt. More countries are going further left and will inevitably fail unless turned around. The system is extremely collective and anti-individual. Once you break it down into opinion, not just facts, its about what you as a person wants. I would much rather live for myself than somebody else...or in otherwards work hard and earn my mean, then keep instead of giving it away to somebody else. The wealth distribution and economic freedom is much to constricted for the economy to ever be powerful.

It is NOT a coincidence that the most "close to capitalist" system established (the U.S or at least used to be) is the most powerful on earth economically wise and BY FAR also. (and every other category also).

Maybe you are right...it "works", but it comes down to standards of what "works" or not, and the europe system has been a ticking time bomb since it ever started...because it will never be able to stabilize for a long period of time. Personally the extreme leftist system in Europe is a failure I think.

 

[kajabla]

Greece =/= Scandinavia =/= all of Europe. There are failed examples of socialism, yes. I'm just saying that it's possible to do it right. Scandinavian countries have fantastic healthcare, trade surpluses and prosperous businesses. They don't have staggering growth, but they do very well, and they're certainly not going to "inevitably fail." Their economies are collective and anti-individual, but they have much less debt than we do and lower levels of unemployment.
Yes, the US used to be an economic powerhouse, but at the moment it's obviously not doing great.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

The US is still an economic powerhouse, and if wed fall, the world would collapse.
Tough times and finger pointing, if all of us accepted our responsibility towards our neighbors, and they towards us, this would change.
If someone has stock, or stock via retirement package, weve all gained and lost from the/our greed.
Outside of all this is meddling being done by governments, and its attitudes towards business.
If there were no housing crunch, how bad would things be currently?
And who created that?
And whos responsible for the greed?
Easy to point fingers, harder to accept responsibility