Open letter to Consumer Reports

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An open letter to Consumer Reports
Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004

Sirs;

After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
amateurish---with the conclusions misleading at best and-in the
limit-downright erroneous. Inkjet printing for both consumers and
professionals has been maturing for many years, and is a complex and
highly-developed technology. You have covered it only at the
grade-school level.

1. In your printer article, you state: "Eventually all photos fade,
and inkjet photos have a reputation for fading faster than other
types." While this may be true for a typical dye-based printer using
normal glossy paper, there are many more variations extant. First-for
dye printing-there are the so-called "swellable polymer" papers that
absorb and encapsulate the ink. Epson Colorlife is only one example.
These papers offer lifetime on the order of 25 years with dye ink.
All of us have seen 1-hour photolab products fade more quickly.
More seriously, you omit ANY discussion of pigment printers. The
first of these in the consumer market was the Epson 2000. Widely
criticized for its color rendition, it nonetheless offered 200-year
print life on selected papers. More recently, Epson has introduced
several pigment-based printers with trademarks such as "Durabright"
and "Ultrachrome". You would have to have been marooned on a desert
island to have missed their advertising, and yet you make no mention
of any of these products-some of which are the MOST POPULAR printers
in use.

2. Your sampling of printers for test is totally skewed, omitting-as
mentioned above-some of the most popular and widely-used models. Your
article is slanted towards photo printing, and yet you list several
HP models that are never considered photo printers (they are 4-color
systems), and you OMIT the most widely used Epson models-including ALL
of their 6 and 7-color "Photo" printers.

3. Finally, your article about third party ink has serious problems.
First, consider some basic logic: Inkjet printing has been around a
long time. Why would anyone believe that a particular manufacturer
had some magic formula for ink such that nothing else would work in
their printers? This is simply not plausible. While it IS credible
to believe that the typical printer manufacturer has taken the time to
test an ink formula that works well in their printers, it does not
follow that noone else can make compatible ink.
If you sample the various forums relating to photo printing with
inkjets, you will see mention of many sources of 3rd party ink, refill
kits, and continuous-feed systems. You will also see testimonials
from both advanced amateurs and professionals who use these products.
It is wholly consistent with the amateurish nature of your article
that you mention NONE of the most often recommended sources, including
for example: MIS Associates, Mediastreet, Lyson, ColorBat, Weink.
Read the forums---you will find many others.
In summary, your articles have serious errors of omission and are
unbalanced in that widely-used products and technologies receive no
mention. Your blanket statements about third-party ink cannot be
reconciled with the large user community successfully using these
products.

To maintain your integrity and credibility, I believe that it is
incumbent on you to publish something more complete and competent.

I am sure that all participants in these forums join me in urging you
to respond.

**************************
Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
 

Stevie

Distinguished
Apr 11, 2004
31
0
18,530
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An open letter? Why???

Why not a close one

We dont give a BALLS about a letter you wrote


"Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
> An open letter to Consumer Reports
> Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004
>
> Sirs;
>
> After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
> your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
> ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
> amateurish---with the conclusions misleading at best and-in the
> limit-downright erroneous. Inkjet printing for both consumers and
> professionals has been maturing for many years, and is a complex and
> highly-developed technology. You have covered it only at the
> grade-school level.
>
> 1. In your printer article, you state: "Eventually all photos fade,
> and inkjet photos have a reputation for fading faster than other
> types." While this may be true for a typical dye-based printer using
> normal glossy paper, there are many more variations extant. First-for
> dye printing-there are the so-called "swellable polymer" papers that
> absorb and encapsulate the ink. Epson Colorlife is only one example.
> These papers offer lifetime on the order of 25 years with dye ink.
> All of us have seen 1-hour photolab products fade more quickly.
> More seriously, you omit ANY discussion of pigment printers. The
> first of these in the consumer market was the Epson 2000. Widely
> criticized for its color rendition, it nonetheless offered 200-year
> print life on selected papers. More recently, Epson has introduced
> several pigment-based printers with trademarks such as "Durabright"
> and "Ultrachrome". You would have to have been marooned on a desert
> island to have missed their advertising, and yet you make no mention
> of any of these products-some of which are the MOST POPULAR printers
> in use.
>
> 2. Your sampling of printers for test is totally skewed, omitting-as
> mentioned above-some of the most popular and widely-used models. Your
> article is slanted towards photo printing, and yet you list several
> HP models that are never considered photo printers (they are 4-color
> systems), and you OMIT the most widely used Epson models-including ALL
> of their 6 and 7-color "Photo" printers.
>
> 3. Finally, your article about third party ink has serious problems.
> First, consider some basic logic: Inkjet printing has been around a
> long time. Why would anyone believe that a particular manufacturer
> had some magic formula for ink such that nothing else would work in
> their printers? This is simply not plausible. While it IS credible
> to believe that the typical printer manufacturer has taken the time to
> test an ink formula that works well in their printers, it does not
> follow that noone else can make compatible ink.
> If you sample the various forums relating to photo printing with
> inkjets, you will see mention of many sources of 3rd party ink, refill
> kits, and continuous-feed systems. You will also see testimonials
> from both advanced amateurs and professionals who use these products.
> It is wholly consistent with the amateurish nature of your article
> that you mention NONE of the most often recommended sources, including
> for example: MIS Associates, Mediastreet, Lyson, ColorBat, Weink.
> Read the forums---you will find many others.
> In summary, your articles have serious errors of omission and are
> unbalanced in that widely-used products and technologies receive no
> mention. Your blanket statements about third-party ink cannot be
> reconciled with the large user community successfully using these
> products.
>
> To maintain your integrity and credibility, I believe that it is
> incumbent on you to publish something more complete and competent.
>
> I am sure that all participants in these forums join me in urging you
> to respond.
>
> **************************
> Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
> Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
>
 

Stevie

Distinguished
Apr 11, 2004
31
0
18,530
Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"your integrity and credibility"

Huh? We are talking about CR???

You subscribe to this rag? Then shame on you. Its your money..spend it
wisely


"Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
> An open letter to Consumer Reports
> Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004
>
> Sirs;
>
> After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
> your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
> ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
> amateurish---with the conclusions misleading at best and-in the
> limit-downright erroneous. Inkjet printing for both consumers and
> professionals has been maturing for many years, and is a complex and
> highly-developed technology. You have covered it only at the
> grade-school level.
>
> 1. In your printer article, you state: "Eventually all photos fade,
> and inkjet photos have a reputation for fading faster than other
> types." While this may be true for a typical dye-based printer using
> normal glossy paper, there are many more variations extant. First-for
> dye printing-there are the so-called "swellable polymer" papers that
> absorb and encapsulate the ink. Epson Colorlife is only one example.
> These papers offer lifetime on the order of 25 years with dye ink.
> All of us have seen 1-hour photolab products fade more quickly.
> More seriously, you omit ANY discussion of pigment printers. The
> first of these in the consumer market was the Epson 2000. Widely
> criticized for its color rendition, it nonetheless offered 200-year
> print life on selected papers. More recently, Epson has introduced
> several pigment-based printers with trademarks such as "Durabright"
> and "Ultrachrome". You would have to have been marooned on a desert
> island to have missed their advertising, and yet you make no mention
> of any of these products-some of which are the MOST POPULAR printers
> in use.
>
> 2. Your sampling of printers for test is totally skewed, omitting-as
> mentioned above-some of the most popular and widely-used models. Your
> article is slanted towards photo printing, and yet you list several
> HP models that are never considered photo printers (they are 4-color
> systems), and you OMIT the most widely used Epson models-including ALL
> of their 6 and 7-color "Photo" printers.
>
> 3. Finally, your article about third party ink has serious problems.
> First, consider some basic logic: Inkjet printing has been around a
> long time. Why would anyone believe that a particular manufacturer
> had some magic formula for ink such that nothing else would work in
> their printers? This is simply not plausible. While it IS credible
> to believe that the typical printer manufacturer has taken the time to
> test an ink formula that works well in their printers, it does not
> follow that noone else can make compatible ink.
> If you sample the various forums relating to photo printing with
> inkjets, you will see mention of many sources of 3rd party ink, refill
> kits, and continuous-feed systems. You will also see testimonials
> from both advanced amateurs and professionals who use these products.
> It is wholly consistent with the amateurish nature of your article
> that you mention NONE of the most often recommended sources, including
> for example: MIS Associates, Mediastreet, Lyson, ColorBat, Weink.
> Read the forums---you will find many others.
> In summary, your articles have serious errors of omission and are
> unbalanced in that widely-used products and technologies receive no
> mention. Your blanket statements about third-party ink cannot be
> reconciled with the large user community successfully using these
> products.
>
> To maintain your integrity and credibility, I believe that it is
> incumbent on you to publish something more complete and competent.
>
> I am sure that all participants in these forums join me in urging you
> to respond.
>
> **************************
> Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
> Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
>
 
G

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"Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
:An open letter to Consumer Reports
:Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004

:Sirs;

:After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
:your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
:ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
:amateurish.
--------
Why do you even bother with CR? I thought you were above that.
mark_
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 07:59:46 -0400, "mark_digital"
<XXX-RIR@comcast.com> wrote:

>
>"Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
>news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
>:An open letter to Consumer Reports
>:Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004
>
>:Sirs;
>
>:After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
>:your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
>:ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
>:amateurish.
>--------
>Why do you even bother with CR? I thought you were above that.
>mark_
>
>
I have not read CR in maybe 20 years. I used to trust them.

When I read about the ink and printer articles here and in other
forums, I had to see for myself.

I am well aware that many patrons of forums such as this are well
beyond pubs such as CR, and I don't mind things being "dumbed-down"
for the everyday consumer. But I take offense at misleading and
inaccurate information. I don't want to be a zealot, but I do think
that people that have knowledge of something have some resposibility
to help keep outfits like CR honest.
**************************
Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
 

Tony

Distinguished
Aug 5, 2001
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0
19,780
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"Stevie" <StR009@aol.com> wrote in message
news:E9Iec.19219$467.3742632@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> An open letter? Why???
>
> Why not a close one
>
> We dont give a BALLS about a letter you wrote

Oh we do Stevie. There are thousands who care about their pockets and the
money left in them. Your snap reply simply proves the point - there is an
idiot born every minute.
Tony
--
Inkylink JetTec UK Quality - Wot others wanna-be
Epson C64/ C84 Lighfast (30% more free) pigmented inks.
Canon BCI-3 i560 i750 BCI-6 i865 S-820 / S-900 series.
Specialist ink refill kits... http://www.inkylink.co.uk
remove pants for personal mail


>
>
> "Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
> news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
> > An open letter to Consumer Reports
> > Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004
 
G

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Guest
Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 11:20:36 +0100, "Tony" <webfive@pantsaah-haa.com>
wrote:

>
>
>"Stevie" <StR009@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:E9Iec.19219$467.3742632@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
>> An open letter? Why???
>>
>> Why not a close one
>>
>> We dont give a BALLS about a letter you wrote
>
>Oh we do Stevie. There are thousands who care about their pockets and the
>money left in them. Your snap reply simply proves the point - there is an
>idiot born every minute.
>Tony

Did you ever wonder what the world would be like if there were a cure
for stupidity?
**************************
Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I've never known Consumer Reports to be reliable on ANYTHING. In
spite of their blathering about independence -- I believe they give
the best reports to whomever pays the most.
wayne1932(AT)juno.com
 

gary

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
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0
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Typical of consumer reports. I never trusted them ..... well not since I
took some of their (misguided) advice a long time ago.


"Stevie" <StR009@aol.com> wrote in message
news:AbIec.19262$467.3756356@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> "your integrity and credibility"
>
> Huh? We are talking about CR???
>
> You subscribe to this rag? Then shame on you. Its your money..spend it
> wisely
>
>
> "Mark Herring" <Nomarkh@surfcity.net> wrote in message
> news:5rpl70lnpoilgani7c7uel987ph4rlq8ed@4ax.com...
> > An open letter to Consumer Reports
> > Mark Herring, 11 April, 2004
> >
> > Sirs;
> >
> > After reading accounts in various forums, I read with some interest
> > your recent articles (May 2004) on inkjet printers and third-party
> > ink. I must tell you that I find your work superficial and
> > amateurish---with the conclusions misleading at best and-in the
> > limit-downright erroneous. Inkjet printing for both consumers and
> > professionals has been maturing for many years, and is a complex and
> > highly-developed technology. You have covered it only at the
> > grade-school level.
> >
> > 1. In your printer article, you state: "Eventually all photos fade,
> > and inkjet photos have a reputation for fading faster than other
> > types." While this may be true for a typical dye-based printer using
> > normal glossy paper, there are many more variations extant. First-for
> > dye printing-there are the so-called "swellable polymer" papers that
> > absorb and encapsulate the ink. Epson Colorlife is only one example.
> > These papers offer lifetime on the order of 25 years with dye ink.
> > All of us have seen 1-hour photolab products fade more quickly.
> > More seriously, you omit ANY discussion of pigment printers. The
> > first of these in the consumer market was the Epson 2000. Widely
> > criticized for its color rendition, it nonetheless offered 200-year
> > print life on selected papers. More recently, Epson has introduced
> > several pigment-based printers with trademarks such as "Durabright"
> > and "Ultrachrome". You would have to have been marooned on a desert
> > island to have missed their advertising, and yet you make no mention
> > of any of these products-some of which are the MOST POPULAR printers
> > in use.
> >
> > 2. Your sampling of printers for test is totally skewed, omitting-as
> > mentioned above-some of the most popular and widely-used models. Your
> > article is slanted towards photo printing, and yet you list several
> > HP models that are never considered photo printers (they are 4-color
> > systems), and you OMIT the most widely used Epson models-including ALL
> > of their 6 and 7-color "Photo" printers.
> >
> > 3. Finally, your article about third party ink has serious problems.
> > First, consider some basic logic: Inkjet printing has been around a
> > long time. Why would anyone believe that a particular manufacturer
> > had some magic formula for ink such that nothing else would work in
> > their printers? This is simply not plausible. While it IS credible
> > to believe that the typical printer manufacturer has taken the time to
> > test an ink formula that works well in their printers, it does not
> > follow that noone else can make compatible ink.
> > If you sample the various forums relating to photo printing with
> > inkjets, you will see mention of many sources of 3rd party ink, refill
> > kits, and continuous-feed systems. You will also see testimonials
> > from both advanced amateurs and professionals who use these products.
> > It is wholly consistent with the amateurish nature of your article
> > that you mention NONE of the most often recommended sources, including
> > for example: MIS Associates, Mediastreet, Lyson, ColorBat, Weink.
> > Read the forums---you will find many others.
> > In summary, your articles have serious errors of omission and are
> > unbalanced in that widely-used products and technologies receive no
> > mention. Your blanket statements about third-party ink cannot be
> > reconciled with the large user community successfully using these
> > products.
> >
> > To maintain your integrity and credibility, I believe that it is
> > incumbent on you to publish something more complete and competent.
> >
> > I am sure that all participants in these forums join me in urging you
> > to respond.
> >
> > **************************
> > Mark Herring, Pasadena, Calif.
> > Private e-mail: Just say no to "No".
> >
>
>