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42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1c65b483d41c022c9899e2@shawnews:
> In article <Xns95ED579E41E51Rumbledorhotmailcom@63.240.76.16>,
> Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com says...
>> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.1c64723be17d173f9899e0@shawnews:
>>
>> > In article <Xns95ECA6A0A4E5BRumbledorhotmailcom@204.127.204.17>,
>> > Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com says...
>> >> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in
>> >> news:MPG.1c643f62ac1d40ec9899df@shawnews:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <Xns95EC60BE887A7Rumbledorhotmailcom@63.240.76.16>,
>> >> > Rumbledor@hotspamsuxmail.com says...
>> >> >
>> >> >> Well, I found starting with one bag to be just enough of an
>> >> >> improvement to facilitate practical inventory management. When
>> >> >> you have to run back to the bank or merchant every several
>> >> >> minutes to avoid having to pass over even the trivial loot you
>> >> >> desperately need, it doesn't allow for you to get very far at
>> >> >> all from town or get started with much more interesting than
>> >> >> the rats at the city gates.
>> >> >
>> >> > The rats & bugs & skells at the city gates were the only thing
>> >> > you could kill. Where were you planning on going? By level 3 or
>> >> > so, you could have easily had a small box or two, and maybe a
>> >> > spit or backpack for larger items.
>> >>
>> >> Sure, if that's all you needed to focus on purchasing. There was
>> >> also bandages (which weren't cheap at that level), sewing kit &
>> >> patterns to craft tattered armor, maybe a bow, fletching kit and
>> >> components, next level of spells, etc.
>> >
>> > If you couldn't afford it you didn't buy it. A bow and arrows was a
>> > luxury that you could live without for the first dozen levels. (and
>> > never miss it either, although perhaps we didn't know that at the
>> > time.) My first bows came from BB gnolls... I don't think i ever
>> > saw one I could afford at the merchants. I rarely did more than 1
>> > damage with it... hardly with a silver per shot.
>>
>> Pulling and maintaining your skill. 'Nuf said.
>>
>> > Bandages? Waste of money. 10 seconds... 1-4 hit points. Certainly
>> > not worth a silver+ each on a newbie bankroll. You'd get hit points
>> > back just as fast by sitting, and mana too.
>>
>> Waste the time now when 1-4 hp is at least something, or later when
>> it is just a time sink *and* robbing you of med time.
>>
>> With the ability to bw while sitting now, it's not an issue, but back
>> then it was.
>>
>> > But a sewing kit was a great investment... it doubled as a
>> > container, and let you combine silks out in the field. When I found
>> > out you could get large sewing kits in Halas that motivated me to
>> > make the trip.
>>
>> Unless, being more expensive than a backpack, it was the only
>> container you could afford, in which case it was always full of
>> stuff, preventing you from crafting with it.
>>
>> >> Mmmm...cracked staves and plague rat tails.
>> >
>> > I actually don't remember plague rat tails back in '99. I swear
>> > they added them later. (either that or made them a lot more common)
>>
>> You may be right.
>>
>> >> >> >> > The
>> >> >> >> > long treks were for IMMERSION.
>> >
>> >> Well, I guess we can just agree to disagree here. I think it added
>> >> to the atmosphere of being far from home and certain dangers that
>> >> go along with that.
>> >
>> > I'm not even sure if we *really* disagree. I agree long trips did
>> > add to immersion.
>> >
>> > As I said... I liked making the trip. I liked the sense I had gone
>> > *somewhere* and that I couldn't just pop back. I just didn't like
>> > not being able to bind at the end of it. Making the same 40 minute
>> > trip 3 times in one day didn't add to anything. And I'd have
>> > welcomed trips that were twice as long if there was a way of
>> > reliably binding at the other end.
>> >
>> > Quite frankly, it detracted from the immersion to have traveled
>> > that long and that far to a distant land... where the trip back
>> > would be another hour... only to trip over a cliff and find
>> > yourself home 2 continents away in the blink of an eye.
>>
>> Simple solution -> be more careful. Nothing keeps you from
>> accidentally selling that uber breastplate to a vendor either.
😉
>
> Actually I aug things I don't want to accidently sell.
😉
> "Be more careful" is all well and fine, but accidents do happen...
> whether it was hitting combine on your sewing kit-cum-backpack and
> *destroying* everything in it, tripping off a cliff, standing where a
> hillgiant is about to spawn. The punishment for an accident should be
> commesurate with the avoidability and severity of misjudgement.
Pfft. I could cross the center line on a highway by merely not paying
enough attention, and the punishment for that is quite severe. I don't
think your philosophy in this regard is grounded.
> Getting sent 10 zones backwards, 45 minutes of travel, without your
> stuff and docked the better part of a yellow of xp for getting too
> close to a hill giants spawn point is too high a penalty.
Except for the fact that when the punishment is more severe, you'll tend
to take more steps to avoid the mishap. You have control.
> Raiders fighting gods suffer less when they die. (96% xp rezzes, 0
> return travel time,... worst case they fail to take the god out...)
Yeah, I've never quite figured that one out. I do believe the higher the
reward the higher the risk.
>> > Trolls and Ogres in particular had a beast of time. There were
>> > significant faction obstacles to many bind spots.
>> >
>> > It was even hard getting a bind at home in Ogguk. One was actually
>> > better off trying for a bind in freeport. (Ogguk like Erudin was
>> > always a ghost town... erudin at least was home mostly to bind
>> > capable casters... ogre shamens otoh were comparatively few and far
>> > between vs erudite ... well...erudite anything almost.
>>
>> Granted, ogres had it tough, trolls not nearly so, sharing their home
>> city with dark elves. Still, that is something that needed attention
>> at the race/class level, not in game design philosophy.
>
> Uh... trolls home city used to be Grobb (now Gukta) in Innothule
> Swamp. But both trolls and ogres have always been reasonably welcome
> in Neriak.
Doh. You're right. I wasn't thinking. Darned game changes have gone to
my brain.
>> Aside from that, playing one of the most hated races in all of
>> Norrath was *supposed* to offer challenges.
>
> Extra downtime isn't a challenge.
No, but avoiding it *is*.
> If you upped the difficulty level in
> Doom III and the only difference was that load times were tripled...
> well feeling a little ripped off would be an understatement
Not a fair comparison.
>> Like I said, ogres obviously had issues. That doesn't begin to
>> explain or justify the complete removal of the travel aspect from the
>> game.
>
> Sometimes I wonder if you are even reading what I'm writing. I like
> travel. I am not arguing to remove it from the game.
I've not seen any alternative to the PoK books come from you, so it was
a safe enough assumption. Perhaps I'm not hearing your point in full.
> For me, the biggest flaw with slow travel is the deathport. If I die I
> should respawn in a safe spot not more than a zone away, not halfway
> around the world.
>
> If they did that I'd be happy to remove *all* fast travel from the
> game.
That makes some sense.
> (Of course, if that were to happen, other things would have to change
> too... like more places to sell/bank, some way of gathering for raids,
> etc...)
Perhaps scattered outposts where prices aren't nearly as good as a more
familiar locale.
--
Rumble
"Write something worth reading, or do something worth writing."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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