Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)
In article <1107548716.406552.290210@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
scritchy@gmail.com says...
>
> 42 wrote:
> > Fortunately *You wouldn't*. That's the whole friggin point.
> >
> > On good old earth I can't meet my friends in China for a soccer game,
>
> > and then spend a couple hours skiing in the Swiss Alps, before ending
> my
> > day touring Aztec pyramids in Mexico.
> >
> > But you don't whine and bitch that the Earth is too big and that it
> > takes to long to get anywhere. You just spend time in and around
> -where
> > you are- and every now and then you drastically change where that is.
>
> Nope, because real life isn't a game that I play to relax.
Your loss. The pursuit of happiness is what I play the game of life for.
> If you
> can't see the difference and why a parallel doesn't work between what I
> was saying and your example, it will be impossible to have a
> conversation.
> On Earth, it is possible to spend a day in China, then the next day
> spend it in the Alps. Of course, that is assuming you have 24 hours in
> a day to travel.
You don't make a few handbaskets in China, and then rush off to the Alps
to get in on a yeti kill, and then run back to china in time to catch an
expedition to kill sewer ratsm, even in an era of jets/aircraft.
> In a game, I suppose you could have 24 hours to
> travel if you 1) don't do anything except play that game, or 2) have a
> system that lets you travel while you aren't actively playing.
Given that one could get from absolutely any zone in the game to any
other zone in the game in under 60 minutes, without relying on teleports
of any sort your suggestion that you need play all the time to travel is
ridiculous. Yes it was an obstacle, and yes, if you were on a really
limited play time, you might log in and set as your goal... Today I'm
going to move my base of operations to Kelethin, or to the Overthere
Outpost, or to Thurgadin.
Further, your suggestion that you be allowed to travel while not in the
game is very intriguing. In principle I'd fully support it, you'd head
to town, book passage on a caravan, and an hour or two real time later
you'd be at the destination city, whether you were logged in or not.
Fantastic idea!
However, out of game travel doesn't solve your problem of being 45
minutes away from where your group invite came from. Even if you had the
foresight to log out on a caravan to Thurg, and presumably when you next
log in, you intentd to play in the Great Divide, or perhaps to check out
the Crystal Caverns. *But* if you expect to login and join a group in
the Ruins of old Paineel after putting yourself on a boat to Velious
yourself you're still screwed.
And you should be.
You're now halfway around the bloody world. Deal with it and find
something else to do. Back in the early days, people with time
constraints didn't spend all their time travelling as you seem to
suppose, they would go somewhere and hunt there for a couple weeks, and
then head somewhere else.
Instead of logging in for 2 hours and spending 1 of them getting to a
group halfway around the world, they'd spend those 2 hours grouping
locally, as any sane person would, and once every few weeks they'd make
a day of getting bound somewhere new and exotic and far away, and that
trip was an adventure unto itself.
> Time constraints are a big part of why I don't see how people can
> equate time sinks (or what I refer to as frustration) to immersion.
Immersion is the sense that you are in a real world, it comes from the
minutia of realism obstacles. When you load up on coins and possessions
they weigh you down, when fight you must rest to be replensished, food
and water and spell components must be replaced, etc... these are all
routinely condemned as 'timesinks'.
I have to go the bank!
What a waste of time.
I'm out food... I need to visit a merchant to buy some.
What a waste of time.
I'm at half health, its going to take me several minutes to heal back to
full without a healer. What a waste of time.
I'm out of 'dots... I'll have to go back to Freeport. What a waste of
time!
If you just want to stand in one place killing creature after creature
without being bothered by all the minutia play Soul Caliber or Mortal
Kombat.
The very thing that makes these games different is the inclusion of
'timesinks' that make you move around, manage your inventory and weight,
etc etc etc.
A mmog by necessity will have these 'timesink' things. Its just a
question of to what degree. There is no such thing as a perfect balance
because some people want more realism, and some people want less.
The biggest thing people don't like about EQ is that its *changed* its
balance. For some people that made it better, for others it made it
worse.
But by changing it they've destroyed its integrity for everyone.
> Why play a game that is frustrating, when the goal of a game is to have
> fun?
It takes far longer to get from level 1 to 65, and every misstep sends
you back 10% or more of a level. What a colossal frustrating timesink,
as I ding 25th level for the 15th time...!! Why play a game that is so
frustrating when the goal of a game is to have fun?
Perhaps because overcoming the obstacle is precisely what makes it fun?
Why is the trip from Freeport to Qeynos more frustrating and less fun
than the trip from level 48 to 50? The former trip takes much less time,
and is more scenic!
> Errr, I guess the goal is to have fun for most people, you always
> have some people that are happier when they are miserable 😉
We won't worry about those people.
In article <1107548716.406552.290210@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
scritchy@gmail.com says...
>
> 42 wrote:
> > Fortunately *You wouldn't*. That's the whole friggin point.
> >
> > On good old earth I can't meet my friends in China for a soccer game,
>
> > and then spend a couple hours skiing in the Swiss Alps, before ending
> my
> > day touring Aztec pyramids in Mexico.
> >
> > But you don't whine and bitch that the Earth is too big and that it
> > takes to long to get anywhere. You just spend time in and around
> -where
> > you are- and every now and then you drastically change where that is.
>
> Nope, because real life isn't a game that I play to relax.
Your loss. The pursuit of happiness is what I play the game of life for.
> If you
> can't see the difference and why a parallel doesn't work between what I
> was saying and your example, it will be impossible to have a
> conversation.
> On Earth, it is possible to spend a day in China, then the next day
> spend it in the Alps. Of course, that is assuming you have 24 hours in
> a day to travel.
You don't make a few handbaskets in China, and then rush off to the Alps
to get in on a yeti kill, and then run back to china in time to catch an
expedition to kill sewer ratsm, even in an era of jets/aircraft.
> In a game, I suppose you could have 24 hours to
> travel if you 1) don't do anything except play that game, or 2) have a
> system that lets you travel while you aren't actively playing.
Given that one could get from absolutely any zone in the game to any
other zone in the game in under 60 minutes, without relying on teleports
of any sort your suggestion that you need play all the time to travel is
ridiculous. Yes it was an obstacle, and yes, if you were on a really
limited play time, you might log in and set as your goal... Today I'm
going to move my base of operations to Kelethin, or to the Overthere
Outpost, or to Thurgadin.
Further, your suggestion that you be allowed to travel while not in the
game is very intriguing. In principle I'd fully support it, you'd head
to town, book passage on a caravan, and an hour or two real time later
you'd be at the destination city, whether you were logged in or not.
Fantastic idea!
However, out of game travel doesn't solve your problem of being 45
minutes away from where your group invite came from. Even if you had the
foresight to log out on a caravan to Thurg, and presumably when you next
log in, you intentd to play in the Great Divide, or perhaps to check out
the Crystal Caverns. *But* if you expect to login and join a group in
the Ruins of old Paineel after putting yourself on a boat to Velious
yourself you're still screwed.
And you should be.
You're now halfway around the bloody world. Deal with it and find
something else to do. Back in the early days, people with time
constraints didn't spend all their time travelling as you seem to
suppose, they would go somewhere and hunt there for a couple weeks, and
then head somewhere else.
Instead of logging in for 2 hours and spending 1 of them getting to a
group halfway around the world, they'd spend those 2 hours grouping
locally, as any sane person would, and once every few weeks they'd make
a day of getting bound somewhere new and exotic and far away, and that
trip was an adventure unto itself.
> Time constraints are a big part of why I don't see how people can
> equate time sinks (or what I refer to as frustration) to immersion.
Immersion is the sense that you are in a real world, it comes from the
minutia of realism obstacles. When you load up on coins and possessions
they weigh you down, when fight you must rest to be replensished, food
and water and spell components must be replaced, etc... these are all
routinely condemned as 'timesinks'.
I have to go the bank!
What a waste of time.
I'm out food... I need to visit a merchant to buy some.
What a waste of time.
I'm at half health, its going to take me several minutes to heal back to
full without a healer. What a waste of time.
I'm out of 'dots... I'll have to go back to Freeport. What a waste of
time!
If you just want to stand in one place killing creature after creature
without being bothered by all the minutia play Soul Caliber or Mortal
Kombat.
The very thing that makes these games different is the inclusion of
'timesinks' that make you move around, manage your inventory and weight,
etc etc etc.
A mmog by necessity will have these 'timesink' things. Its just a
question of to what degree. There is no such thing as a perfect balance
because some people want more realism, and some people want less.
The biggest thing people don't like about EQ is that its *changed* its
balance. For some people that made it better, for others it made it
worse.
But by changing it they've destroyed its integrity for everyone.
> Why play a game that is frustrating, when the goal of a game is to have
> fun?
It takes far longer to get from level 1 to 65, and every misstep sends
you back 10% or more of a level. What a colossal frustrating timesink,
as I ding 25th level for the 15th time...!! Why play a game that is so
frustrating when the goal of a game is to have fun?
Perhaps because overcoming the obstacle is precisely what makes it fun?
Why is the trip from Freeport to Qeynos more frustrating and less fun
than the trip from level 48 to 50? The former trip takes much less time,
and is more scenic!
> Errr, I guess the goal is to have fun for most people, you always
> have some people that are happier when they are miserable 😉
We won't worry about those people.
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