Part 2: Four Cheap 80 PLUS Bronze Power Supplies, Reviewed

[Onus]

While a thorough and technical PSU article is certainly not beyond the scope of what we might see on Tom's, it hasn't been written yet. Right now, IMO the best place to go for technical information about PSUs and how they work is the tutorial articles (and sample some reviews) over at HardwareSecrets.
Unfortunately, there really is no way for a consumer to tell the difference, which is part of why so much junk gets sold. Even most technical reviews don't cover topics like the longevity of parts, just their initial ratings. The Corsair CX PSUs, for example, get good competent technical reviews, but forum articles and other postings indicate they have longevity problems due to those cheap caps.
As with so many other technical topics, I don't think there will ever be a single be-all, end-all article on the subject. Discussions of the quality of specific components will be needed as well, and as they change, a reference to forums like badcaps.org may be needed to find current information.

 

[8350rocks]

I have the 620W Cooler Master Silent Pro M2, and it is a really great PSU. I did a lot of research before I purchased and couldn't find any bad comments about it anywhere. Additionally, it is SUPER quiet for a budget PSU. I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[InvalidError]

As with so many other technical topics, I don't think there will ever be a single be-all, end-all article on the subject.

It would be possible but require tying up thousands of dollars worth of equipment in a burn-in test for weeks if not months at a time, preferably with at least three specimens of each product under test to produce conclusive results.

 

[Novuake]

Would love to see more of these PSU reviews on Toms.

Thanks Patrick! Will this be a new trend?

 

[Novuake]

Please, if you could say , if the power supply is compatible with Haswell .I think this is very important .

I second that request. Does ANY of those PSUs support the new Haswell C7 state?

http://techreport.com/review/24897/the-big-haswell-psu-compatibility-list

 

[Novuake]

I have the 620W Cooler Master Silent Pro M2, and it is a really great PSU. I did a lot of research before I purchased and couldn't find any bad comments about it anywhere. Additionally, it is SUPER quiet for a budget PSU. I would recommend it to anyone.

Agreed. One of the few Coolermaster PSUs I have ever suggested. It was on an epic promotion the last few months.

 

[InvalidError]

Would love to see more of these PSU reviews on Toms.

It might happen, only on the Hub.

From what I heard, they are looking into it. But setting up a real lab is pretty expensive - using all lab-grade equipment from major players (no light bulbs or cheap substitutes) would require around 60k$ worth of gear. An ok-ish setup with "proper homebrew" stuff might be doable for under 40k$ not including furniture, room re-wiring and other infrastructure upgrades.

 

[Novuake]

Would love to see more of these PSU reviews on Toms.

It might happen, only on the Hub.

From what I heard, they are looking into it. But setting up a real lab is pretty expensive - using all lab-grade equipment from major players (no light bulbs or cheap substitutes) would require around 60k$ worth of gear. An ok-ish setup with "proper homebrew" stuff might be doable for under 40k$ not including furniture, room re-wiring and other infrastructure upgrades.

Hallo Patrick.

And yes, I did notice that joke, well done.

 

[iam2thecrowe]

Over at HardwareSecrets, there's a guy named c.hegge who is an Australian PSU reviewer. He has documented how bad the Samxon "GF" capacitors are. They don't like heat, and tend to fail. He has recapped Corsair "CX" PSUs with capacitor problems. This is also described on the badcaps.org forums. The Corsair CX reviews well, and looks great when new, but I won't buy or recommend them, especially in gaming PCs that tend to run warm.
Of this batch of PSUs, I'd take the Seasonic every time. As Vertexx points out, it offers sufficient wattage for most PCs with a single graphics card using just one PCIe power connector.

I can confirm, i have fixed countless psu's, motherboards, and LCD monitors with bad samxon caps. They are crapacitors.

 

[Novuake]

While a thorough and technical PSU article is certainly not beyond the scope of what we might see on Tom's, it hasn't been written yet. Right now, IMO the best place to go for technical information about PSUs and how they work is the tutorial articles (and sample some reviews) over at HardwareSecrets.
Unfortunately, there really is no way for a consumer to tell the difference, which is part of why so much junk gets sold. Even most technical reviews don't cover topics like the longevity of parts, just their initial ratings. The Corsair CX PSUs, for example, get good competent technical reviews, but forum articles and other postings indicate they have longevity problems due to those cheap caps.
As with so many other technical topics, I don't think there will ever be a single be-all, end-all article on the subject. Discussions of the quality of specific components will be needed as well, and as they change, a reference to forums like badcaps.org may be needed to find current information.

The CXs are perfectly fine for low cost build and I am fine suggestive them for APU builds for example. But when "overclock" or a high end and high cost build starts to pop up, the CX is out the door.

 

[InvalidError]

Hallo Patrick.

I'm not Patrick.

But I do know for sure that the bill goes up quickly: 10-15k$ per major component. The Chroma frame with 4x600W loads itself costs around 15k$ based on list prices. Awfully expensive for something that can be replaced by resistors or light bulbs to produce almost exactly the same effect..

 

[Novuake]

Hallo Patrick.

I'm not Patrick.

But I do know for sure that the bill goes up quickly: 10-15k$ per major component. The Chroma frame with 4x600W loads itself costs around 15k$ based on list prices. Awfully expensive for something that can be replaced by resistors or light bulbs to produce almost exactly the same effect..

Was being sarcastic. LOL Guess that is not clear on a forum...

 

[InvalidError]

Was being sarcastic. LOL Guess that is not clear on a forum...

Sarcasm does tend to not translate too well to online form... then again, my 4th wall can be pretty thick too.

 

[JohnMD1022]

Corsair 500XM is $50 at microcenter, after rebate.

 

[flong777]

"PSUs run more efficiently under load. IMO, the trend has been to overkill on the PSU when it's not really needed. In reality, when you actually add up the max loads of all components a 350-450W PSU is more than enough to run most single GPU gaming builds."

Vertex, you are right only to a point - PSUs run more efficiently up to about 50% capacity, then their efficiency declines. After that they start to heat up and go to high fan which makes a LOT of noise. For that reason a 350W - 450W PSU is not the best choice for a single GPU gaming computer. Yes the system will work and probably it will not harm the components but it will not run efficiently and it will probably run hot and noisy. A single GPU system can draw 300W - 400W at max and so a 350W PSU is NOT a smart choice. Remember that there are other components besides the GPU and CPU and they all draw power.

To upgrade to a larger more efficient PSU, the cost difference is usually $50-$75. Right now on Newegg, the Corsair HX 850 is on sale for $129.00 after rebates which is an absolute steal. I have this PSU and I have never even heard the PSU fan turn on it runs so efficiently. Even when my system is drawing just 200W, HX 850 is over 90% efficient.

It is frustrating to me to see people downgrade to cheaper PSUs when the cost difference is so minimal. Some people simply can't afford the extra $50 and I get that, but most people can. For those people who can, it is a far superior set up, even for a single GPU>

 

[Someone Somewhere]

Except that a) it's only a couple of percent higher efficiency at 50% than 100%, and b) the fans aren't really that loud, and there's only maybe another 10% of heat to be dissipated.

I'd argue that another $80 on your GPU is a lot better than going from a 550W XFX to an HX850.

 

[vertexx]

"PSUs run more efficiently under load. IMO, the trend has been to overkill on the PSU when it's not really needed. In reality, when you actually add up the max loads of all components a 350-450W PSU is more than enough to run most single GPU gaming builds."

Vertex, you are right only to a point - PSUs run more efficiently up to about 50% capacity, then their efficiency declines. After that they start to heat up and go to high fan which makes a LOT of noise. For that reason a 350W - 450W PSU is not the best choice for a single GPU gaming computer. Yes the system will work and probably it will not harm the components but it will not run efficiently and it will probably run hot and noisy. A single GPU system can draw 300W - 400W at max and so a 350W PSU is NOT a smart choice. Remember that there are other components besides the GPU and CPU and they all draw power.

To upgrade to a larger more efficient PSU, the cost difference is usually $50-$75. Right now on Newegg, the Corsair HX 850 is on sale for $129.00 after rebates which is an absolute steal. I have this PSU and I have never even heard the PSU fan turn on it runs so efficiently. Even when my system is drawing just 200W, HX 850 is over 90% efficient.

It is frustrating to me to see people downgrade to cheaper PSUs when the cost difference is so minimal. Some people simply can't afford the extra $50 and I get that, but most people can. For those people who can, it is a far superior set up, even for a single GPU>

Look, I never said there is no place for an 850W PSU. You were the one who said "why on earth would you buy a 360W PSU? I just don't see the point." When there are plenty of cases where the 360W Seasonic is the better PSU for the application than the 850W scenario. And yes there are scenarios where the 850W is better than the 360W (i.e. a dual GPU system with an OC'd AMD cpu). The point is that higher Wattage is not always better.

You say it's frustrating to you to see people downgrading to cheaper PSUs - I never said anything about "cheaper". There are plenty of "Cheaper" high wattage PSUs. What I think is a bigger problem is that people who are ignorant to real system power requirements just think a higher wattage PSU is simply better, when it's not.

In fact, "Wattage" isn't really what counts. It's Amperage for each voltage level that you need to power the components. Here is an example. Take this Cooler Master 525W PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171065

If you look at the label, it has split 12V rails with only 20A each. Usually it will have one rail supplying the CPU and the other supplying the PCIe connectors. The Seasonic happens to have a single larger 12V rail with a full 30A capacity. You'll probably be fine with the 20/20 split with the CM, but with other PSUs, you might have to be careful.

A more extreme example is this cheap ass "600W" ePower PSU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101048

Even though it's rated for "600W" (don't ask me how they get that rating), it only has 33A total available at 12V. So that's only 3A more than the 360W Seasonic, even though it's "rated" for 240 more Watts.

So the real problem hear is that people who don't know any better just buy the PSU with the greater "Wattage", when that is not what really counts.

Your 850W Corsair is a great PSU. But quite frankly, it's overkill for Most situations, and money spent would be better spent on other components, or just not spent at all. Note I didn't say "All" situations, because it definitely has it's place. But at 200W, I'm afraid it does not get higher than 90% efficiency:
http://www.legitreviews.com/corsair-professional-series-hx850-power-supply-review_2037/7
In that situation, drawing 200W, you'd be much better off with the 360W Seasonic. This is because the drop-off in efficiency below 50% power is usually much sharper than the drop off above 50%. The best rule-of-thumb is to size your PSU to be typically 1.5 times your Max system load. This allows the PSU to operate in it's sweet spot of from 50-75% capacity.

Finally, you might actually look at some PSU calculators. You'd be surprised how little power some pretty powerful systems consume. As an alternative, you can just look at most GPU reviews. When they show GPU power consumption, it is usually Total System Power. Here are a couple examples showing total system power under load:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6276/nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-review-gk106-rounds-out-the-kepler-family/17
http://www.legitreviews.com/powercolor-hd7870-devil-2gb-video-card-review_2244

I'm not trying to say "why on earth would you buy an 850W PSU". It's your money, and there are certainly applications where the 850W is the right choice. Just try to understand that there are just as many applications where the 360W is the better choice for that particular application.

 

[buzznut]

$60, a gold rating and 5 year warranty make the Saesonic standout. They are considered one the top OEM PSU manufacturers for good reason; their units don't fail.

As a system builder, I would be quite willing to part for a few more dollars for a 500W unit from Seasonic. I'm not sure why the 360W unit was chosen to go up against 500W power supplies, but I would still rather buy that for a budget build.

5 year warranties are hard to find these days.

As for the Corsair builder series, I have used those any number of times because they work, are reliable, and even with a weaker warranty they do the job. But primarily Corsair is generous with rebates and I have bought both the CX 430 and CX 500 for $20-25 with free shipping on the egg. And THAT sells.

 

[flong777]

As far as the Seasonic 360, why on earth would you buy a 360W PSU? I just don't see the point. While I can justify a 500W PSU to a budget builder, I really cannot comprehend recommending a 360W PSU to anyone.

I just ordered the Seasonic for a home server build. The higher efficiency is a plus since it will be running 24x7. Plus, the system really doesn't need the extra wattage.

PSUs run more efficiently under load. IMO, the trend has been to overkill on the PSU when it's not really needed. In reality, when you actually add up the max loads of all components a 350-450W PSU is more than enough to run most single GPU gaming builds.

Sorry Vertex you answered my previous post above and I did not see it. I don't see a delete key for this post.

 

[flong777]

"PSUs run more efficiently under load. IMO, the trend has been to overkill on the PSU when it's not really needed. In reality, when you actually add up the max loads of all components a 350-450W PSU is more than enough to run most single GPU gaming builds."

Vertex, you are right only to a point - PSUs run more efficiently up to about 50% capacity, then their efficiency declines. After that they start to heat up and go to high fan which makes a LOT of noise. For that reason a 350W - 450W PSU is not the best choice for a single GPU gaming computer. Yes the system will work and probably it will not harm the components but it will not run efficiently and it will probably run hot and noisy. A single GPU system can draw 300W - 400W at max and so a 350W PSU is NOT a smart choice. Remember that there are other components besides the GPU and CPU and they all draw power.

To upgrade to a larger more efficient PSU, the cost difference is usually $50-$75. Right now on Newegg, the Corsair HX 850 is on sale for $129.00 after rebates which is an absolute steal. I have this PSU and I have never even heard the PSU fan turn on it runs so efficiently. Even when my system is drawing just 200W, HX 850 is over 90% efficient.

It is frustrating to me to see people downgrade to cheaper PSUs when the cost difference is so minimal. Some people simply can't afford the extra $50 and I get that, but most people can. For those people who can, it is a far superior set up, even for a single GPU>

Look, I never said there is no place for an 850W PSU. You were the one who said "why on earth would you buy a 360W PSU? I just don't see the point." When there are plenty of cases where the 360W Seasonic is the better PSU for the application than the 850W scenario. And yes there are scenarios where the 850W is better than the 360W (i.e. a dual GPU system with an OC'd AMD cpu). The point is that higher Wattage is not always better.

You say it's frustrating to you to see people downgrading to cheaper PSUs - I never said anything about "cheaper". There are plenty of "Cheaper" high wattage PSUs. What I think is a bigger problem is that people who are ignorant to real system power requirements just think a higher wattage PSU is simply better, when it's not.

In fact, "Wattage" isn't really what counts. It's Amperage for each voltage level that you need to power the components. Here is an example. Take this Cooler Master 525W PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171065

If you look at the label, it has split 12V rails with only 20A each. Usually it will have one rail supplying the CPU and the other supplying the PCIe connectors. The Seasonic happens to have a single larger 12V rail with a full 30A capacity. You'll probably be fine with the 20/20 split with the CM, but with other PSUs, you might have to be careful.

A more extreme example is this cheap ass "600W" ePower PSU.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101048

Even though it's rated for "600W" (don't ask me how they get that rating), it only has 33A total available at 12V. So that's only 3A more than the 360W Seasonic, even though it's "rated" for 240 more Watts.

So the real problem hear is that people who don't know any better just buy the PSU with the greater "Wattage", when that is not what really counts.

Your 850W Corsair is a great PSU. But quite frankly, it's overkill for Most situations, and money spent would be better spent on other components, or just not spent at all. Note I didn't say "All" situations, because it definitely has it's place. But at 200W, I'm afraid it does not get higher than 90% efficiency:
http://www.legitreviews.com/corsair-professional-series-hx850-power-supply-review_2037/7
In that situation, drawing 200W, you'd be much better off with the 360W Seasonic. This is because the drop-off in efficiency below 50% power is usually much sharper than the drop off above 50%. The best rule-of-thumb is to size your PSU to be typically 1.5 times your Max system load. This allows the PSU to operate in it's sweet spot of from 50-75% capacity.

Finally, you might actually look at some PSU calculators. You'd be surprised how little power some pretty powerful systems consume. As an alternative, you can just look at most GPU reviews. When they show GPU power consumption, it is usually Total System Power. Here are a couple examples showing total system power under load:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6276/nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-review-gk106-rounds-out-the-kepler-family/17
http://www.legitreviews.com/powercolor-hd7870-devil-2gb-video-card-review_2244

I'm not trying to say "why on earth would you buy an 850W PSU". It's your money, and there are certainly applications where the 850W is the right choice. Just try to understand that there are just as many applications where the 360W is the better choice for that particular application.

Vertex - I have to complement your post, it is extremely well written and I am being sincere - it is rare that someone backs up what they say so well.

A couple of points:
1. Depending on what review you read, the HX 850 is right at 90% efficiency with a 200W draw - your graph shows about 89% efficiency which is very close to what I said. It also depends if you are using the 115W efficiency of course. My system draws around 250W -300W when I use (educated guess) which puts me right at 92% efficiency or so. I have a single GPU system but I have several fans and two optical drives and some other components.
2. I knew the HX 850 would be overkill for my system but it is cheap overkill. Right now you can get it on Newegg for $129.00 after rebates. The Corsair HX 650 is on sale for $80 after rebates and is a gold-rated PSU. My point is that it doesn't get a whole lot cheaper than this. Why buy the CX 500 at $60 when the HX 650 is $80?
3. We do differ here - using the dirt cheap PSUs you list is like playing Russian roulette with your expensive components. There is no end of dirt cheap PSUs available, but why would anyone risk their system for $25 -$50 in savings? It just is not worth it.
4. You are wrong when you say I would be much better with the 360W Seasonic - look at the numbers. I understand what you are trying to say because the efficiency of some PSUs at low wattage suffers - but not with the HX 850. Your graph you posted confirms this. When my system is being used hard, it would ramp up the 360W PSU to high fan and that alone would bug me to death.
5. In case you doubt what I say, I had the Corsair HX 750 with an I-7 920, single GPU build and the HX 750 would go to high fan all the time and it was VERY noisy.
6. If you are talking a Haswell system, then the power requirements go down and it is a different discussion.

Keep in mind Vertex that I actually have the system up and running that I am telling you about and it is amazingly efficient and quiet. You most likely do not have my system. I have never even heard my HX 850 fan come on. I checked it once to see if it was running and it wasn't (I hope it isn't broken, ha, ha). Further, the PSU never gets hot - never. Also the HX 850 is one of the most stable PSUs you can buy on the market right now - it won't damage my components. This peace of mind is well worth the $75 extra dollars I spent on the PSU. Having used cheaper PSUs, I would never go back.

We actually agree and I did say that the cheaper PSUs will work. They just don't work as well and they are not nearly as safe for your components as the better PSUs. So I am confirming what you say to a degree.

Thanks again for a very thoughtful response to my comment. One of the best I have seen.

 

[vertexx]

We actually agree and I did say that the cheaper PSUs will work. They just don't work as well and they are not nearly as safe for your components as the better PSUs. So I am confirming what you say to a degree.

Thanks again for a very thoughtful response to my comment. One of the best I have seen.

Agree with everything you say here - I didn't intend to say you'd be better off with the 360W PSU, just that at 200W the 360W PSU would be running more efficiently.

I enjoyed the good banter, so thanks as well!

 

[Naer]

I have the 600watt cx psu. Works god

 

[Onus]

Good discussion here. Too bad a white-screen bug until recently wasn't letting me see it. Not much to add. I'm fond of efficiency, but durability / reliability is #1. I still think the Delta-built 650W Antec Signature I bought... four years ago? ...is the best PSU I've ever bought. It may outlast me. My graphics card at the time was a HD4850, and I had some thought to maybe running two some day. I never did, but I continue to use this PSU even though it is more amperage / wattage than I need (500W is enough even for a HD7970).

 

[Novuake]

Good discussion here. Too bad a white-screen bug until recently wasn't letting me see it. Not much to add. I'm fond of efficiency, but durability / reliability is #1. I still think the Delta-built 650W Antec Signature I bought... four years ago? ...is the best PSU I've ever bought. It may outlast me. My graphics card at the time was a HD4850, and I had some thought to maybe running two some day. I never did, but I continue to use this PSU even though it is more amperage / wattage than I need (500W is enough even for a HD7970).

Cinic to the end huh?

 

[vertexx]

Over the weekend, my oldest son & I finished a mini-ITX home server build using the Seasonic 360W PSU. It's powering a Xeon E3-1230 V2 (cheapest 8 thread Intel CPU you can buy), 16GB Ram, 3x3TB WD Reds in RAID, a re-purposed laptop HDD for the OS, a $9 used Radeon video card, and an ASRock $60 H-61 Motherboard all in a Lian-Li PC-Q25 Case. It's running Ubuntu server and we'll be configuring VMs (with KVM) to run 2-3 Minecraft servers, a Plex Media Server, File-share, Home PC Backups, and whatever else we can throw at it.

The Seasonic PSU is the quietest component in the build (and the Lian-Li fans are pretty good, but not as quiet as Noctua) - you need your ear right up next to the PSU it to hear it, and the connectivity is perfect for what we need. I also wanted the 5 year warranty, because this will be running 24x7 for as long as we can make it last.

I also just ordered the Corsair CX-500M for a budget gaming build - will be the first build for my Nephew. With the latest Newegg flyer, it's $29 net after a $21 promo code and $20 mail-in rebate. Those recent Corsair deals are hard to beat.