Question PC Unusable. Previous issue, plus some new ones

[Nate_30]

Hi guys. Yet another issue with my system. Months ago, this forum helped me achieve a workaround for a burnt out CPU fan header. However, the problem once again appeared overnight. My third fan header on the MB has burnt out. Only this time, it was accompanied by some new issues. These include there being no display on the monitor, the fans that do work stay at max speeds instead of whirring down after a few seconds, and I'm unable to turn the PC off via the power button, only on. I thought this all could be solved by just plugging the cpu fan into another header, but this didn't fix the other issues. It fixed the CPU fan from not spinning, though. But there's still no display, fans stay at max, and I can't turn it off via the power button.

I am assuming this is a motherboard issue once again, and that this time I need to replace it. Any help or advice that could point to other issues would be well appreciated. Meanwhile I'm going to be checking my warranty with ASUS.

Specs are:
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x
CPU fan: Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black
GPU: RTX 2080 TI
RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32g (4x8)
Motherboard: ASUS Prime X470-Pro

 

[Darkbreeze]

Replace the motherboard. No way you could have that many failures on independent fan headers unless there was a more central problem with the motherboard including potentially a faulty PWM controller or voltage regulation issues. Especially with a failure of the PCIe bus so that there is no display via the graphics card output. Assuming of course, that you didn't have things unplugged in back and then accidentally plug your display cable into the motherboard header instead of the appropriate graphics card video output.

Add in it suddenly not wanting to shut down via the power button and it's almost a certainty you've got a faulty board.

It might be a good idea to bench it first though with minimal hardware. Are there any specific POST beep codes happening or do you not have a system speaker connected to the motherboard?

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[Nate_30]

Replace the motherboard. No way you could have that many failures on independent fan headers unless there was a more central problem with the motherboard including potentially a faulty PWM controller or voltage regulation issues. Especially with a failure of the PCIe bus so that there is no display via the graphics card output. Assuming of course, that you didn't have things unplugged in back and then accidentally plug your display cable into the motherboard header instead of the appropriate graphics card video output.

Add in it suddenly not wanting to shut down via the power button and it's almost a certainty you've got a faulty board.

It might be a good idea to bench it first though with minimal hardware.

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

Thank you for your reply. Yes, that's the sad conclusion that I've come to. Probably should have mentioned that I tested both the GPU DVI port and the board's designated DVI port. Both had no display. I know it's not the GPU either, because it's fans and RGB lights are on no problem. I have another board on its way, and I should be able to perform surgery this Saturday. Also just in case this was caused by any kind of rogue power surges, I'm investing in a new ACP surge protector.

My future business with ASUS depends on how this new board performs in the long run. It's a newer model, so it shouldn't have these levels of failures. Picked up an ASUS Strix B450-F Gaming || AMD. Hope this one turns out better.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So, testing the video outputs on the motherboard are pointless, because you don't have a CPU that has integrated graphics. You'll never see anything using any of them unless you install a CPU that has integrated graphics. The 3700x does not. So far, only G-series Ryzen processors, like the 3400G and 5700G (And a couple of GE models) have graphics.

Also, having fans and lighting are never enough to say that a graphics card is not to blame. If you can't put it in another machine and verify it works, then the idea that it might be the problem should still be on the table. Plenty of motherboards and graphics cards that are faulty will still present with lights and fan operation.

What is your exact power supply model number and how long has that unit been in service?

 

[Nate_30]

So, testing the video outputs on the motherboard are pointless, because you don't have a CPU that has integrated graphics. You'll never see anything using any of them unless you install a CPU that has integrated graphics. The 3700x does not. So far, only G-series Ryzen processors, like the 3400G and 5700G (And a couple of GE models) have graphics.

Also, having fans and lighting are never enough to say that a graphics card is not to blame. If you can't put it in another machine and verify it works, then the idea that it might be the problem should still be on the table. Plenty of motherboards and graphics cards that are faulty will still present with lights and fan operation.

What is your exact power supply model number and how long has that unit been in service?

So, testing the video outputs on the motherboard are pointless, because you don't have a CPU that has integrated graphics. You'll never see anything using any of them unless you install a CPU that has integrated graphics. The 3700x does not. So far, only G-series Ryzen processors, like the 3400G and 5700G (And a couple of GE models) have graphics.

Also, having fans and lighting are never enough to say that a graphics card is not to blame. If you can't put it in another machine and verify it works, then the idea that it might be the problem should still be on the table. Plenty of motherboards and graphics cards that are faulty will still present with lights and fan operation.

What is your exact power supply model number and how long has that unit been in service?

I have a be quiet! Straight Power 11 750W, and I've had it for a little over a year.
And I do not have another board to test the GPU. Even if it does have an issue, I have an EVGA card that's still under warranty, so that's not a huge concern. I'll just have to cross my fingers that it's just the board. I'll find out on Saturday.

 

[Nate_30]

Replace the motherboard. No way you could have that many failures on independent fan headers unless there was a more central problem with the motherboard including potentially a faulty PWM controller or voltage regulation issues. Especially with a failure of the PCIe bus so that there is no display via the graphics card output. Assuming of course, that you didn't have things unplugged in back and then accidentally plug your display cable into the motherboard header instead of the appropriate graphics card video output.

Add in it suddenly not wanting to shut down via the power button and it's almost a certainty you've got a faulty board.

It might be a good idea to bench it first though with minimal hardware. Are there any specific POST beep codes happening or do you not have a system speaker connected to the motherboard?

How To - Motherboard bench testing

Finding the problem through bench testing If you are here then it’s likely you have encountered a serious hardware issue and have been unable to resolve it using the standard no-POST troubleshooting procedures. If you have not yet attempted to resolve your issues using the no-POST...

forums.tomshardware.com

I also do not have a board speaker. I'll definitely have one installed in my next one, however.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hi guys. Yet another issue with my system. Months ago, this forum helped me achieve a workaround for a burnt out CPU fan header. However, the problem once again appeared overnight. My third fan header on the MB has burnt out. Only this time, it was accompanied by some new issues. These include there being no display on the monitor, the fans that do work stay at max speeds instead of whirring down after a few seconds, and I'm unable to turn the PC off via the power button, only on. I thought this all could be solved by just plugging the cpu fan into another header, but this didn't fix the other issues. It fixed the CPU fan from not spinning, though. But there's still no display, fans stay at max, and I can't turn it off via the power button.

I am assuming this is a motherboard issue once again, and that this time I need to replace it. Any help or advice that could point to other issues would be well appreciated. Meanwhile I'm going to be checking my warranty with ASUS.

Specs are:
CPU: Ryzen 7 3700x
CPU fan: Noctua NH-D15S chromax.Black
GPU: RTX 2080 TI
RAM: Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro 32g (4x8)
Motherboard: ASUS Prime X470-Pro

How many fans are you connecting to the motherboard and how? In particular, are you using splitters or hubs?

 

[Nate_30]

How many fans are you connecting to the motherboard and how? In particular, are you using splitters or hubs?

Only 2 connections, I'm pretty sure. One being the cpu fan, and the other being a fan hub. I have 4 fans plugged into the hub.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Did the hub come with the case or did you buy it separately?

Does the hub have it's own power source, ie, sata or molex power, or is it a passive hub that simply turns one 3 or 4 pin connection into four of them? Seems unlikely to some, but I assure you there are some very cheap fan hubs out there that are no better really than a four way splitter cable.

 

[Nate_30]

Did the hub come with the case or did you buy it separately?

Does the hub have it's own power source, ie, sata or molex power, or is it a passive hub that simply turns one 3 or 4 pin connection into four of them? Seems unlikely to some, but I assure you there are some very cheap fan hubs out there that are no better really than a four way splitter cable.

Its a Corsair commander pro, so it gets its power from the PSU directly via SATA. Those fans all work fine. It gets it's fan settings from it's motherboard USB 2.0 port, which come to think of it, explains why they won't come down from max speed upon startup.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right. Same issue with the NZXT Grid+ v2 I used to run.

If all fans are running through the Commander Pro, and have burned out each fan header that it's been connected to, I'd be concerned that you potentially have a problem with that fan header and I'd be inclined to try using the fans connected directly to the motherboard fan headers and controlled through the BIOS, at least at first, before just hooking up a potentially damaging fan hub again. The fans can't be the problem if they are running through the hub and if they hub has been connected to each fan header that has stopped working, seems like maybe you have something wired wrong or have a bad fan controller.

 

[Nate_30]

Right. Same issue with the NZXT Grid+ v2 I used to run.

If all fans are running through the Commander Pro, and have burned out each fan header that it's been connected to, I'd be concerned that you potentially have a problem with that fan header and I'd be inclined to try using the fans connected directly to the motherboard fan headers and controlled through the BIOS, at least at first, before just hooking up a potentially damaging fan hub again. The fans can't be the problem if they are running through the hub and if they hub has been connected to each fan header that has stopped working, seems like maybe you have something wired wrong or have a bad fan controller.

No, the fans that are plugged into the commander pro are fine, it's only been the cpu fans that have been shorting out their respective fan slot on the board. It just appears that the USB 2.0 slot that the hub uses to remember and apply custom settings for the fans has been fried too, causing the max speeds. Either that, or the bios isn't launching in order to override the max speeds.

Again, the only fan headers that have stopped working completely are the ones that were used by the CPU fan alone. For whatever reason.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, let's see what happens with the new board but if you've had the same problem follow to wherever that cooler has been plugged in, then I'd suspect a problem with that fan or fans. Assuming you only have one fan with the D15S, so perhaps that fan has a problem and needs to be RMA'd to Noctua. I might even want to proactively BUY a new fan, to install on the cooler and plug into the CPU header on the new board.

I'd be really skeptical about plugging something in that's (arguably) already killed a few headers and possibly more on another board. Likely the board, not the fan, but for less than 30 bucks might not be the worst idea ever to replace it just to be sure. And then if it's ok you can always RMA the other fan afterwards if it's still under warranty since Noctua warranties their coolers and fans for six years.

 

[Nate_30]

Ok, let's see what happens with the new board but if you've had the same problem follow to wherever that cooler has been plugged in, then I'd suspect a problem with that fan or fans. Assuming you only have one fan with the D15S, so perhaps that fan has a problem and needs to be RMA'd to Noctua. I might even want to proactively BUY a new fan, to install on the cooler and plug into the CPU header on the new board.

I'd be really skeptical about plugging something in that's (arguably) already killed a few headers and possibly more on another board. Likely the board, not the fan, but for less than 30 bucks might not be the worst idea ever to replace it just to be sure. And then if it's ok you can always RMA the other fan afterwards if it's still under warranty since Noctua warranties their coolers and fans for six years.

That's the weird thing, I've used both included noctua fans with the cooler. When the first header stopped working, switching the fan was the first thing I tried. I swapped the fan out for the second one included with the noctua cooler, and I didn't swap back after I found the fix of using a different header for the cpu fan. Making this the second fan to have encountered this issue.

Do you think I should still bother with a new fan?

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's kind of my point.

Fan header quit working, you swapped fans on that header, didn't fix it. Then you found out you could use another header, so you switched back to the original fan, and at some point that fan header quit working too. I assume that when that one quit and you moved to the third fan header you were still using the same fan that was originally in use on the original primary CPU fan header, yes? If so, then that makes the fan very suspect. If not, then IDK, but it's maybe just a flukey board that had problems from the start. In that case, whether or not to use an entirely new fan is a choice you'd have to decide for yourself.

How old is your CPU cooler, and by marriage to it, the fan in question?

 

[Nate_30]

That's kind of my point.

Fan header quit working, you swapped fans on that header, didn't fix it. Then you found out you could use another header, so you switched back to the original fan, and at some point that fan header quit working too. I assume that when that one quit and you moved to the third fan header you were still using the same fan that was originally in use on the original primary CPU fan header, yes? If so, then that makes the fan very suspect. If not, then IDK, but it's maybe just a flukey board that had problems from the start. In that case, whether or not to use an entirely new fan is a choice you'd have to decide for yourself.

How old is your CPU cooler, and by marriage to it, the fan in question?

I didn't change back to the original fan the first time a header stopped working, so the second fan is still the one installed. Both fans that came with the cooler have encountered this issue.

The cooler and the fans are just a little over a year old.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Then it's likely not the fans. You aren't using any of the extensions that came with the fans, or the Noctua low noise extension cable that comes with all their coolers and fans are you? The low noise adapter just looks like a 4 inch extension cable but it's actually there to reduce overall RPM by reducing voltage and that itself might cause issues with some configurations. I've never seen it be a problem, but anything is possible. Besides which, they reduce performance by reducing fan RPM, so they are mostly pointless anyhow since if you are able to achieve the desired cooling by reducing the fan curve or changing the profile in the BIOS for that fan, there's no need for any additional reduction.

Noctua fans, even without such a reduction, are already terribly quiet anyhow.

That being said, looks like aside from something like that, or a bad splitter or something, it's just a board issue. I think I'd take the risk if you had the same problem with different fans even on different headers.

 

[Nate_30]

Then it's likely not the fans. You aren't using any of the extensions that came with the fans, or the Noctua low noise extension cable that comes with all their coolers and fans are you? The low noise adapter just looks like a 4 inch extension cable but it's actually there to reduce overall RPM by reducing voltage and that itself might cause issues with some configurations. I've never seen it be a problem, but anything is possible. Besides which, they reduce performance by reducing fan RPM, so they are mostly pointless anyhow since if you are able to achieve the desired cooling by reducing the fan curve or changing the profile in the BIOS for that fan, there's no need for any additional reduction.

Noctua fans, even without such a reduction, are already terribly quiet anyhow.

That being said, looks like aside from something like that, or a bad splitter or something, it's just a board issue. I think I'd take the risk if you had the same problem with different fans even on different headers.

No, I just use the default fan connectors.
Id imagine the likelihood of both fans being disfunctional would be slim to none, also.
Thank you for your replies, and I'll update this thread when I get the new board in.

 

[Nate_30]

Then it's likely not the fans. You aren't using any of the extensions that came with the fans, or the Noctua low noise extension cable that comes with all their coolers and fans are you? The low noise adapter just looks like a 4 inch extension cable but it's actually there to reduce overall RPM by reducing voltage and that itself might cause issues with some configurations. I've never seen it be a problem, but anything is possible. Besides which, they reduce performance by reducing fan RPM, so they are mostly pointless anyhow since if you are able to achieve the desired cooling by reducing the fan curve or changing the profile in the BIOS for that fan, there's no need for any additional reduction.

Noctua fans, even without such a reduction, are already terribly quiet anyhow.

That being said, looks like aside from something like that, or a bad splitter or something, it's just a board issue. I think I'd take the risk if you had the same problem with different fans even on different headers.

Motherboard came in early. Went through the entire process, replaced the motherboard entirely. Absolutely nothing changed. CPU fan still doesn't turn, power button still doesn't turn off, fans stay at max, no display.

I have no idea what to do. Any further advice would be appreciated very much. I'm going to take a break and as a last resort, I'll swap out the PSU because that's the only other culprit I can think of.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Do you know anybody with a working system you can try your graphics card in, or have access to another graphics card you could try in this system? Really looking like that might be relevant right now. I'm never against the idea of it being a power supply issue for almost any kind of problem, but given the symptoms you are seeing, I'd be less inclined to target the PSU than I would the graphics card.

Did you try to test it out on the bench using the guide I linked to earlier in this thread?

 

[Nate_30]

Do you know anybody with a working system you can try your graphics card in, or have access to another graphics card you could try in this system? Really looking like that might be relevant right now. I'm never against the idea of it being a power supply issue for almost any kind of problem, but given the symptoms you are seeing, I'd be less inclined to target the PSU than I would the graphics card.

Did you try to test it out on the bench using the guide I linked to earlier in this thread?

Replaced the PSU entirely, nothing happened. CPU fan still doesn't spin, GPU fan won't come down from max, power button won't turn it off, no display. I do have someone who can do that for me, but how would a gpu issue affect the cpu fan not spinning or the power button not turning it off?

 

[Nate_30]

Do you know anybody with a working system you can try your graphics card in, or have access to another graphics card you could try in this system? Really looking like that might be relevant right now. I'm never against the idea of it being a power supply issue for almost any kind of problem, but given the symptoms you are seeing, I'd be less inclined to target the PSU than I would the graphics card.

Did you try to test it out on the bench using the guide I linked to earlier in this thread?

Update. The CPU was the problem, it apparently died. Had a previous gen lying around and swapping it worked. All issues gone. Wish I kept calm and waited before buying a new MOBO, but oh well. Now that I know the problem and what I'm using now isn't a horrible downgrade, I can start saving for a new CPU. thank you very much for all your help, and I'll update further if more issues come up.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Update. The CPU was the problem, it apparently died. Had a previous gen lying around and swapping it worked. All issues gone. Wish I kept calm and waited before buying a new MOBO, but oh well. Now that I know the problem and what I'm using now isn't a horrible downgrade, I can start saving for a new CPU. thank you very much for all your help, and I'll update further if more issues come up.

Well, on the bright side, you now have your older Gen CPU, AND a new motherboard, so you are well on your way to either building a second or backup system for yourself OR perhaps sell it once you get the primary system fixed.

This is, honestly, extremely unusual unless there were other factors involved because CPUs don't normally, almost never in fact, fail, unless they are dropped, pins bent, abused via overclocking or overvoltage, etc. So it's not very common at all. It's unfortunate that that's the case here.

Might also want to make SURE that the motherboard has a new enough BIOS version installed that it supports that 3700x, because the B450 boards DID NOT support the 3xxx series processors at launch. You could have gotten a board that simply has never had it's BIOS updated.