PC Vendors Cautious About High Cost of Windows 8 PCs

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[citation][nom]zaznet[/nom]They will do the same as they did with Vista to 7 and we'll have Windows 9 or perhaps Windows 8.5 that "fixes" the problems with the original (mostly through a new generation of hardware and driver support).[/citation]

Windows 8 doesn't have hardware/driver support problems. It is compatible with almost all of both Windows Vista and Windows 7 drivers in addition to it's own. Windows 8's only problem is Metro, but at least metro is easy to work around.

[citation][nom]notsleep[/nom]yup. it's kinda like with intel's tick tock scheme. vista is the 'tick' then win 7 is the 'tock.' win 8 is the 'tick' then win 9 is the 'tock.' i'll wait for the 'tock.'[/citation]

If you want to talk about that kind of thing, then I highly recommend going further back than just Vista.

Windows 98SE-Windows 2K-Windows ME-Windows XP-Windows Vista-Windows 7-Windows 8
tick tock tick tock tick tock tick

Technically, Windows ME was actually based off of the old Windows 9x monolithic kernel( the last version of Windows to feature this kernel), but it was released several months after Windows 2K that was based off of the NT kernel despite Windows 2K technically being a more updated (and simply better) operating system, so I'lll count it as after Windows 2K.

However, let's be honest here. Windows XP also kinda sucked when it first came out and it wasn't until XP SP2 and SP3 that it was really a great OS and the only reason that Windows 7 was great even when it was in the betas was because it was based off of Vista, so all M$ had to do was fix it rather than build it up from next to nothing (technically, from XP, but the point is that the differences between Vista and 7 are far lower than the differences between Vista and XP, both aesthetically and beneath the hood). I don't remember this well, but I think that Windows 2K was okay when it launched.

Me was probably M$'s worst OS ever and unlike their other OSs, M$ didn't even bother trying to fix it (ME never had any SPs to fix the problems). Compared to it, 8 and even Vista (I put 8 above Vista, but that's because it's only problem is Metro and thus aesthetic rather than core problems such as driver support or BSOD, other stuttering, and crashing being a feature) were holy grails.

See how this gives us a far better picture than only going back to Vista? This way, we can more or less confirm what you said because it has far more examples. Two to three examples are simply not enough (in such a context as this) to make a point like this because it doesn't show the trends that have been going on for more than a few years. IE, if no other M$ OSs (or only one or two) followed that tick-tock trend and all of the others did not, then we would not know if it was a general trend or just a recent change (and thus not likely to continue much longer) if we only looked at Vista and up.
 
Hands up who has actually used win8 for a decent enough time frame the majority of comments are from folks who uninstalled it within 1 day of installation which is not anywhere long enough to get a good feel for it.

I have used it since DP, Yes there some serious re-education but having experience the transition from Win 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7, I have to say Metro is not really all that problematic. And win8CP on a samsung slate 7 is a complete different experience, but even on a normal desktop it is workable. Win 7 was good, 8 is a small increment up, but one that is required for real tablets to move forward, or at least one where you can do real work on
 
I have a touch screen (21" 1080p dell), and tried it. It didn't work with one of the games I play, so that left me unimpressed. Using the touch screen is fun for some things, like my 2 year old using paint, but isn't great on desktop for day to day use.

I also have a touch screen laptop, and still use the mouse for pretty much everything. I will take notes with the stylus while in class, but for the most part, I still use mouse and keyboard.

Overall, Windows 7 works very well, and Windows 8 didn't impress me enough to switch, even though I have the hardware.
 
[citation][nom]RealTabletRevolution[/nom]Hands up who has actually used win8 for a decent enough time frame the majority of comments are from folks who uninstalled it within 1 day of installation which is not anywhere long enough to get a good feel for it. I have used it since DP, Yes there some serious re-education but having experience the transition from Win 3.1 to 95 to 98 to XP to 7, I have to say Metro is not really all that problematic. And win8CP on a samsung slate 7 is a complete different experience, but even on a normal desktop it is workable. Win 7 was good, 8 is a small increment up, but one that is required for real tablets to move forward, or at least one where you can do real work on[/citation]

You have a good point, but Metro's problems remain. It is not very good for a computer system (such as PCs) that are pretty much optimized for multi-tasking. It is excellent for systems such as tablets that are not as centered on simultaneous multitasking. For example, what if I'm using my web browser and I'm copying data (such as URLs) into a notepad file? With Metro, I would need to switch between each task (not really a fast thing to do with Metro) several dozen times if I have a lot of tabs that have a URL that I want to copy.

Or if I'm copying the contents of a folder to another folder (such as moving data to another hard drive or a removable drive such as a USB stick or a NAS, or less commonly, a DVD-RAM, etc.). I want to have two (or more) folders open, al at once, all on the screen at the same time. Metro does not allow this. For a tablet where you probably won't be constantly switching or even on a computer that is primarily used for certain things (such as more or less purely web browsing/social networking or purely gaming, or at least only one thing at a time), Metro is excellent. However, for high productivity or power users, it slows down work too much. The lack of a start button (unless, like me, you're not too lazy to put it back in yourself) can be detrimental, especially for people like me, who use it very often.

You have a point in that Metro can be just fine for regular usage and it would be great for tablets, but why didn't M$ leave it on tablets and smart phones (Windows Phone uses Metro, I think that is where it was first implemented), or at least make it easy to disable (it's easy to work around and easy to disable in the developer preview, but it's not easy to disable in the consumer preview, even if it's easy to work around. However, M$ didn't make it easy, third parties did. That is the biggest reason for M$ getting flack for Metro) for the people who wouldn't want to use it?

It seems that M$ wants to get into an app style system, kinda like how the mobile computers such as smart phones and most tablets work. Basically, M$ wants to have many small apps in a Windows App Store and do the 30/70 system (M$ wants a 30% cut of all app sales). That way, M$ can make money off of more than jsut the operating system. That's a problem with how M$ does business. By having more of their revenue and profits based off of an OS, they tend to only get huge amounts of money right when they release a new operating system and the amount of money they make gradually lowers until the next good operating system. Of course, Windows is not the only thing that makes M$ a lot of money, but the same is also true for their other software packages (such as M$ Office). There's also the problem with so many of M$'s customers just not upgrading/replacing their computers. About half of the population of Windows users still uses XP. With a lot of people not upgrading, M$'s average profits per person dwindles. The amount of people using Windows is still growing, but I'm not sure if it's growing faster than the amount of people upgrading is dwindling.

M$ wants to secure a more steady and reliable source of income and this is one way to do it. The problem is that it means they need to get Metro out to as many users and get their customers to put as much money into these apps as they can. There's nothing wrong (as I see it) with M$ wanting a more reliable and steady way to make money, especially with how M$ now has several very large competitors such as Apple, Google, and more, not to mention the apparently shrinking amount of OEM money coming into M$. However, I think that this is the wrong way to go about this.

Metro's apps are far simpler than most of the programs that I'm used to. I don't want to need to use fifty apps to do what between one and five full programs or program suites can do for the same job(s). I most certainly don't want to need to pay for them at all. If I can use so many free programs to get my work done now, why would I want to pay for apps? Sure, my money then isn't going to M$ despite them wanting more money, but I can't afford to spend more. I already bought the computer (if it's OEM) or the parts (DIY build) and maybe the OS (I didn't buy my OS, I went to M$'s site and downloaded an eval), so why should I need to pay dozens to hundreds of dollars for programs and apps?

Even if the apps were all also free, they still are highly inconvenient. If I want to check the weather, check the news, and much more, all in just a minute or two, well, Metro can't do that. It will take longer because these are all separate apps instead of a single app (or at least separate modules within a single app).
 
[citation][nom]Ryguy64[/nom]I have a touch screen (21" 1080p dell), and tried it. It didn't work with one of the games I play, so that left me unimpressed. Using the touch screen is fun for some things, like my 2 year old using paint, but isn't great on desktop for day to day use. I also have a touch screen laptop, and still use the mouse for pretty much everything. I will take notes with the stylus while in class, but for the most part, I still use mouse and keyboard.Overall, Windows 7 works very well, and Windows 8 didn't impress me enough to switch, even though I have the hardware.[/citation]

What game and what version of Windows 8 did you use? Don't forget that Windows 8 doesn't have full support for everything in the developer preview (I'm not sure about the consumer preview). The released version of Windows 8 shouldn't have such a problem.
 
[citation][nom]ScrumptuousLatee[/nom]They will climb into Mac price territory for stuff people just don't want. Tablets are toys for most people. PCs are business machines. Windows 8 is a toy OS. It belongs on a tablet but not on a business PC. If they can make the OS convertible like the Intel ultrabook form factor, then maybe it will have some use but it will be very expensive.[/citation]
I completely agree with this. My iPad to me is a toy that is really only useful for browsing the internet and watching videos (Youtube or Netflix). And maybe some games, but most are too boring to play for more than 30 minutes.
 
I don't want to think about the assortment of oozings and juices (dried or otherwise) that will cover the touchscreens of shared PCs...

Linux may have a steep learning curve, but things like this will push people in that direction. A critical mass may be some way away, but once it arrives, Windows will shrivel up and die virtually overnight. Even for those things that [still] require emulators, modern hardware is getting powerful enough not to care. M$ needs to be very careful here.
 
[citation][nom]roakfurt[/nom]I completely agree with this. My iPad to me is a toy that is really only useful for browsing the internet and watching videos (Youtube or Netflix). And maybe some games, but most are too boring to play for more than 30 minutes.[/citation]
+1
 
i have tried windows 8 more and with the search function i have been able to work with it but still i would want to find a way to completely disable the metro UI. i can work with it but hate that MS is turning windows into a mobile OS on desktops/laptops

also i don't know how anyone can argue with me on it is a dumb move to have the Metro UI on server and workstation clients. these computer's need only a basic GUI not an obscene one that will decrease productivity.
 
@ blazethorn

Actually it's workable, side dock the metro app (drag down then to the left or Right), Now your can interact with two apps (screen splits in half)

As stated there is a whole bunch of learning but once you learn it, it gets easier to do things
 
@ blazethorn

Actually it's workable, side dock the metro app (drag down then to the left or Right), Now your can interact with two apps (screen splits in half)

As stated there is a whole bunch of learning but once you learn it, it gets easier to do things
Click to expand...

umm windows vista and 7 allowed you to work split scrren too. and the hidden side menu so far is not working good when you are using multiple monitors
 
@blazethorn

Sorry about multi reply accidental touch trigger lol, it's one of the annoying things, poor Activetile implementation, theoretically you wont need to open the app, if it supports Activetiles info can be displayed directly in the metro screen. Current Metro apps are immature, hopefully this will improve with time, I especially look forward to metro implementation of context aware quicklist
 
@Captain

Im talking about full screen metro app, you Can have two full screen Metro app side by side.

As for the charm gesture, it only works on the primary display, Move the mouse cursor to bottom right, just above the taskbar (works fine on my setup), there is an issue with touch (swipe in from right) As some tablet sensor can't detect the swipe due to hardware limitation
 
@Captain

Im talking about full screen metro app, you Can have two full screen Metro app side by side.

As for the charm gesture, it only works on the primary display, Move the mouse cursor to bottom right, just above the taskbar (works fine on my setup), there is an issue with touch (swipe in from right) As some tablet sensor can't detect the swipe due to hardware limitation
Click to expand...

thats the problem when you move to the bottom right you are usually on the "show desktop" icon and if you try to move away from it it will go to the secondary display. its just an annoyance right now but not impossible to bring up
 
@captain

ahhhhhh your primary is on the left, yes that would sux. Would it be problematic to set primary as the right screen? also winkey + i will bring up the charm bar also
 
apologize been using touch too long forgot some stuff, it's Winkey + C for charm bar
 
[citation][nom]dalauder[/nom]Atoms aren't in Ultrabooks--Mobile 2nd Gen i5's are. That said, I'd probably go with Llano if it was an option because I'd like to be able to play strategy games or maybe TF2 on my Ultrabook. But for my wife, I recommend Intel if it's the same price.[/citation]Wifey does something that requires a more powerful CPU? Even somewhat outdated CPUs are plenty fast, even a lowly dual core APU can do quite well on that front, and more and more software is GPU-accelerated. All the major browsers are, Flash finally is fully accelerated, etc. But it's your call. On Intel I always recommend a discrete card if you're spending a decent chunk of change. Even if just for the better drivers AMD and Nvidia provide.[citation][nom]CharmbarAmnesia[/nom]apologize been using touch too long forgot some stuff, it's Winkey + C for charm bar[/citation]Shortcuts are vital! If you learn the shortcuts its so much faster and easier.
[citation][nom]SocketA[/nom]True, but they really don't seem to be trying to show manufactures that their products are a viable alternative to Intel's.[/citation]They aren't? The current Llano lineup isn't meant to fit in that form factor. That's why they've been demonstrating a Trinity-based 17W "Ultrathin" solution. Trust me, they're showing off what they've got as best as they can, but they're not quite ready for primetime, at least with the 17W chips. They've got to get the more mainstream chips out first for your regular lappys and deskys.
 
@Alex

It might sound wierd but i compute via muscle memory, it's not so much i remember the actual shortcut but rather the motion my fingers perform, I guess it's why i took to touch computing
 
[citation][nom]MuscleMemoryComputing[/nom]@Alex It might sound wierd but i compute via muscle memory, it's not so much i remember the actual shortcut but rather the motion my fingers perform, I guess it's why i took to touch computing[/citation]

What's with the make a new account for every post? Is having a name completely relevant to each comment really that important?
 
@alpha

im hyper paranoid lol and dont like the idea of having a registered username that can be tracked and what not, and toms does not let anom posters reuse an alias untill the last one expires
 
[citation][nom]AnomPoster[/nom]@alphaim hyper paranoid lol and dont like the idea of having a registered username that can be tracked and what not, and toms does not let anom posters reuse an alias untill the last one expires[/citation]

Well, okay then... It kinda makes sense.
 
[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Windows XP still has extended support till 2014.[/citation]
They'll prolly support XP until at least 2020. Windows XP...the OS that wouldn't die.
 
[citation][nom]Halcyon[/nom]They'll prolly support XP until at least 2020. Windows XP...the OS that wouldn't die.[/citation]

Nope. M$ refuses to increase it's support any more. It's already on extended life support and it is highly unlikely that it will have another extension.
 
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