PCIe or AGP for upgrade?

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nato

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I am going to be upgrading my computer at the end of the month and I was all set to get an althon64 3500+, Asus A8V Deluxe mobo, and 1GB of RAM. My computer is a little over 4yrs old, but I got an ATI 9600XT 256MB a little over a year ago since I wasn't in a position to do a bigger upgrade. I don't want to have to replace that board, but I'm wondering if it'd be a better idea to do so, since I'll probably be upgrading my video card again before I do a total system upgrade.

So my questions are 1: do you think it'd be foolish not get PCIe?
and 2: how much do you think I could get for my current card to help offset the cost of a replacement
and 3: if I do go PCIe, what card/mobo would you recommend? I'd want a midrange card (no more than $200). I haven't been doing much gaming lately, but I plan on doing more after my upgrade.
 
I would go with AGP and when you'll be ready to upgrade your vido card, you'll be able to grab a nice Radeon x850xt AGP. An then, when this setup wont be really enough powerful, I will upgrade to whatever technology will be at this time.. and I think, 3-4 years from now...

-Always put the blame on you first, then on the hardware !!!
 
You didn't really give system specs, so there is no way to tell what your systems upgrade path is. Most likely at 4 years old, you will want to replace the motherboard. It sounds doubtful too that your ram would be reuseable either. I would look for a S754 Athlon 64 motherboard with an AGP slot, and use the 9600XT for now. Then later when you can afford/or need an upgrade, get a X800XL or GF6800GT caliber card. AGP is here to stay for a while, so not worries that you won't be able to upgrade that 9600XT when you need a new card. There is no game that an A64 2800+ or faster/512MB-1GB PC3200/Radeon 9600XT can't play, yet the bottleneck for gaming in such a system would be the video card.



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Well, I didn't think it was worth giving system specs, but they are:
Athlon 900
Asus A7V
256MB RAM
9600XT 256MB
SB Live! Value
3com 10/100 ethernet adapter

There's no way I'm keeping my current ram, motherboard, or processor. So if I go w/ AGP, you think there's no point in going for socket 939 and a faster processor than 2800+?
 
Sorry, no didn't mean that at all. I upgraded to a MSI K8N neo2 Platinum NF3 Ultra AGP S939 motherboard with a Winchester A64 3000+. I wish I had gone an A64 3200+ or 3500+, but otherwise i am thrilled with the system. I had a Radeon 9800 pro i wanted to keep until a real deal came along on an upgrade. I ended up getting a BFG 6800 Ultra for $350, which was almost $250 less than the PCI-e equivelent sold for at the time. AGP doesn't limit your CPU choices, and only limits your video card choices to a single card (no sli). Otherwise any card you would want is out or coming out in AGP, and often cheaper than PCI-e. The new bridged ATI cards may be more expensive in AGP, but we don't know that yet. But GF6800 series cards are cheaper in AGP. Anyway, it sounded like you were on more of a budget. S939 won't outperform S754, but both are good AGP choices.



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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/14/05 08:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
Agree with Pauldh, but I the s754 has the performance advantage. A s939 is clocked at 1.8Ghz and a s754 3000+ is 2Ghz. The major performance advantage of the s939 is the dual channel memory, but that doesn't make up for the 200Mhz handicap.

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If this <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21648" target="_new"> PPU </A> ends up being pci-e, then I'd say that's a pretty damn good reason to go pci-e. It may not however; just food for thought :smile:

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Very interesting! Of course I wouldn't want to be the one that pays for the R&D by buying one of the first cards to hit the streets! I'll get my good price/perf platform for now and when it doesn't do the job anymore, then I'll get a new system. Maybe it'll have one of those cards - if I need/want it at that time and it has good price/perf. The next best thing is always right around the corner. Get what you need now and worry about the rest later!

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I don't know why I'm so sold on the whole pci-e thing. I read somewhere in THG that it may be worth getting if you're gonna build a new rig anyways (which I am), and ever since then I decided I <b> HAVE </b> to go pci-e. Oh well :smile:

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I'm definitely not saying that PCIe isn't a good thing. It's perfectly appropriate for some people, but it isn't for everyone and i'm in that group. :smile:

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I figured it's ok because I have to rebuild practically from scratch anyways, so why not? :smile:

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I'm building from scratch, but i'm going the s754 route...at least that's the way i'm strongly leaning right now. Saving a little more and then the purchases will start!

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:tongue: But seriously, I'm in the same boat, waiting on tax return actually... :frown:

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Tax return went to pay off some credit cards. Will be dealing with cash from now on!

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Not all the current video cards are avaliable in AGP format, and when they eventually become available they often cost more.

I just bought a x800xl for $299 at Compusa, but my friend couldn't because he went the AGP route. Now he is wishing he had PCIe instead.

My MSI Neo 4 Platinum motherboard will arrive via fedex in the next two hours. :)
 
Sweet 😎

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True, but it would be a waste to put down that nice 9600XT. That should be able to last him in most games for a long time - especially if he's going to use moderate resolutions. Nothing says that he must go the ATI route either - the 6800 series cards are cheaper right now in AGP. As newer GPUs hit the street, the prices will continue to drop. 12-18mths down the line he'll probably be able to get a killer deal on a 6800 Ultra and I imagine that ATI won't price themselves out of competition by having their X800 series cards priced too high. JMHO

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I don't know. Seems like the trend for new cards is for PCI-e to be given top priority and AGP support will be an after thought.

Sure there is not preformance gain from AGP to PCI-e now, but the same was true for PCI and the first AGP cards.

If you think you will want another new motherboard before you want a new video card then swtich with AGP.

The fact that you have such an old processor with such a new video card tells me that this is probably not the case for you.
 
Sounds like he got the new vid card last year for better gameplay. The bottleneck shifted to another part of his comp and now he's going the whole nine yards, but doesn't want to sacrifice the vid card. I completely understand that sentiment.

I also agree with you that the emphasis will shift from AGP to PCIe vid cards over time. But there are a lot of AGP mobos out there - bought or in mfr/retailer stock. I would dare say there are more AGP mobos out there than PCIe. There are also a lot of people that will upgrade their vid cards when the high-end prices drop to the middle of the road. That indicates to me that mfrs will continue to produce AGP cards and the prices will drop. That being said...there will come a time when AGP fades into the annals of history, but I believe that day is a little farther down the road. The true death of AGP will be when PCIe performance truly and significantly surpasses AGP. Not theoretical, but results/performance benefits in real world applications.

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How do you like the MSI board? I'm starting to lean towards that one, though it sorta bothers me that it's priced somewhat higher than most other 939 AGP boards. Is it worth it? I know it's benchmarked very well, even out of the box. At this point I'm also considering the EPoX EP-9NDA3+, though unless it's improved it sounds like it might be a bit flaky (though I spose the MSI has its share of bad stories as well).

Argh, I just realized I'm probably going to have to get a new power supply as well. I doubt 300W would cut it for a new system.

Thanks for everyone's help, btw.
 
Yeah, that was what I did. And it's allowed me to play some games at fairly high detail settings, even on this old rig, even if they do take forever to load. I think I'm just going to have to bank on AGP being around for a while longer, so when I next want to upgrade my video card I'll be able to get something decent, and then wait a little while longer before switching to PCIe.
 
:wink: You're right - the 300W won't do it for this upgrade. Especially if you're planning on upgrading to a better vid card on down the road.

I really don't think there will be any major issues with upgrading to a better AGP card down the road - may the Crashman strike this post from the books if i'm wrong. :smile:

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yeah, I'm glad I thought of that now!

D'you think a 350W will be adaquate?

Well, considering how old some of the cards you can still find kicking around are, I think I'll probably be fine too.
 
First read up on <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20041223/index.html" target="_new">ATX12V v2.0</A>. Then go to this <A HREF="http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/" target="_new">Wattage Calculator</A> and figure out how much power your system will need on a constant basis. That figure should be no more than 55-65% of the wattage rating of the PSU you want to use. Remember that you want to upgrade to a better video card later on - use that cards info to figure out you're wattage. I think you'll find that you need something more like this <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-934&depa=0" target="_new">Fortron Blue Storm 500W</A> or this <A HREF="http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA21102" target="_new">Enermax 535W Whisper II model EG565P</A>. Here is a recent THG <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20050228/index.html" target="_new">Power Supply Review</A>, too. Happy reading and research! :smile:

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Hmm, yeah, I can see the advantage of going w/ something more powerful now. But are those two overkill? Plugging things into that wattage calculator (and trying to account for a video card upgrade down the road) it still says I need at least 350W. So would something like the <A HREF="http://"http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270401"" target="_new">Enermax EG425P-SFMA24P 420W</A> be more reasonable? Or are you recommending those two as insurance against a future upgrade? I certainly don't want to have to replace a power supply if possible, but then again depending on how fast standards change, maybe I'd have to?
 
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