Photo Realistic Games ?

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Hi

I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?

LaptopSurfer
 
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"laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
> Hi
>
> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>
> LaptopSurfer

http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm

Soon....
 
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"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> writes:

> "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
> > Hi
> >
> > I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> > looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> > Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> > using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> > then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> > epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
> >
> > LaptopSurfer
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
>
> Soon....

Ya, but what the hell kinda rig are you going to need for that??

--
Scott Streeter
ss@wpi.edu
http://www.wpi.edu/~ss/
 
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"Scott Streeter" <ss@ccc4.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:7jis5d1g60.fsf@ccc4.wpi.edu...
> "Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> writes:
>
> > "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> > > looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> > > Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> > > using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> > > then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> > > epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
> > >
> > > LaptopSurfer
> >
> > http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
> >
> > Soon....
>
> Ya, but what the hell kinda rig are you going to need for that??
>
> --
> Scott Streeter
> ss@wpi.edu
> http://www.wpi.edu/~ss/

an upgraded HAL

😉
 
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"Scott Streeter" <ss@ccc4.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:7jis5d1g60.fsf@ccc4.wpi.edu...
> "Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> writes:
>
>> "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>> > looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>> > Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>> > using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>> > then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>> > epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>> >
>> > LaptopSurfer
>>
>> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
>>
>> Soon....
>
> Ya, but what the hell kinda rig are you going to need for that??
>
> --

I looked at these pictures a couple of days ago. All I could think was "Man,
it's going to take some rig to run this game!" I'm sure that you'll be able
to turn down the detail, but at the levels shown in the screen shots I can't
imagine anything but the absolute highest end PC being able to push these
graphics. And Bethesda Softworks aren't known for their great running games.
I remember well how my rig at the time choked on Morrowind when it played
everything else just fine. Still, I'm really excited to see how this game
turns out. JLC
 
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"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> wrote in message
news:28adnTdDScV_F2PcRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
> "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
>> Hi
>>
>> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>>
>> LaptopSurfer
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
>
> Soon....
>
>

That still looks cartoonish. I'm waiting for the day when it looks *real*!
 
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"Scott Streeter" <ss@ccc4.wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:7jis5d1g60.fsf@ccc4.wpi.edu...
> "Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> writes:
>
> > "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> > > looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> > > Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> > > using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> > > then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> > > epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
> > >
> > > LaptopSurfer
> >
> > http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
> >
> > Soon....

Not exactly Daggerfall with its 2d sprites, is it?
 
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Thusly laptopsurfer@gmail.com (laptopsurfer) Spake Unto All:

>I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>Will we have games that look like a movie ?

Pretty much, yeah. The step isn't so big - we already have tons of
movies which look like games (e.g. Troy, Spiderman, van Helsing,
X-men...), it's mainly a question of computer power and...

>how will this be done
>using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>then layering the players, models ontop of that?

....how to build the world. Yes, I'd think we'll see human actors at
least model for computer games (we already have; see Riddick: Escape
from Butcher Bay, starring the representation of Vin Diesel) but
eventually we'll see computer actors replacing human actors in movies
instead (this has arguably also started, see Tom Hanks in Polar
Express).

Designing the worlds will need rethinking. It takes much too long and
is much too expensive to hand-craft large photorealistic worlds -
it'll have to be automated, through semi-random permutations of
predefined objects. This will, for instance, mean that you'll be able
to create a whole forested landscape, where every tree and rock and
blade of grass is different, in seconds. Then you just hand-edit the
most important areas.

>Is this something we
>epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?

I don't think we'll have truly photorealistic worlds in ten years. In
ten years they'll be close or equal to the computer graphics in
Spiderman or the combat scenes in Lord of the Rings, but it'll still
be fairly easy to tell that it's computer animation (just as it is in
those movies).

However, the speed of development largely depends on how much money is
spent on development. If PC games continue their present slow decline,
then it'll take a very long time for games to become truly
photorealistic, as console evolution is much slower.
If piracy is overcome, so PC game production becomes more profitable,
then it'll be a much faster process.

There is at least hope that in ten years we will no longer need worry
about graphics quality and can instead focus on how to better
interface with the computer & gameworld.
 
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"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> wrote in message
news:28adnTdDScV_F2PcRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
> "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
>> Hi
>>
>> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>>
>> LaptopSurfer
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
>
> Soon....
>

That looks cartoony to me. I think HL2 looks better already.
 
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laptopsurfer wrote:
> Hi
>
> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>
> LaptopSurfer

I sure hope not but it's inevitable. If I wanted photorealism I'd step
outside and enjoy the day. I'd rather have stylized rendering a'la Grim
Fandango or Wind Waker - The Legend of Zelda. There's value in absolute
depection of scenes that you'd otherwise never experience first-hand
such as the Rainbow Six series but for the most part I'd prefer
"entartete kunst".


--
best regards, mat
np: Butthole Surfers - White Dumb Ugly Poor

www.pdxshows.net
 
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"HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:bM6dnYA6Wu82UGPcRVn-hg@comcast.com...
>
>
> That still looks cartoonish. I'm waiting for the day when it looks *real*!

Be careful what you wish for... You may get it. I don't know if I would
want to play some of these games if they were too realistic.

DaveL
 
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"Melketh" <abcdef@ghijk.com> wrote in message
news:28adnTdDScV_F2PcRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>
> "laptopsurfer" <laptopsurfer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a6df234e.0501311037.482a619f@posting.google.com...
>> Hi
>>
>> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>>
>> LaptopSurfer
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_screenshots_01.htm
>
> Soon....

Nice graphics, but not photorealistic
 
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"Vader des Vaderlands" <vader@vaderlands.nl> wrote in message
news:3698c8F4smml5U1@individual.net...
> laptopsurfer wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>>
>> LaptopSurfer
>
> I sure hope not but it's inevitable. If I wanted photorealism I'd step
> outside and enjoy the day. I'd rather have stylized rendering a'la Grim
> Fandango or Wind Waker - The Legend of Zelda. There's value in absolute
> depection of scenes that you'd otherwise never experience first-hand such
> as the Rainbow Six series but for the most part I'd prefer "entartete
> kunst".
>
>
> --
> best regards, mat

You bring up a very good point when it comes to gaming graphics. Do we
really want "photo realistic graphics" in the games we play? I for one
don't. I prefer a somewhat more "cartoonish" look to the games I play.
FarCry was about as "real" looking as I'd want in a game. Sure HL2 had some
amazing graphics, but at times they got a little boring to look at. I mean
how many old sheds, and industrial buildings does a person have to look at
in one game? After the "WOW" factor wore off I got tired of the way the game
looked. What's nice about FarCry is that it's so damn pretty. It's like
being on vacation.
Have to keep in mind that a game company has to cater to the low to mid
level PC owners. Since photo realistic graphics will take a huge amount of
processing power to render,I don't think that we'll be seeing true photo
realism in gaming for a few more years. Look how long game makers used the
Quake 2-3 engines. Now we have the Source, Crytek, and the up coming Unreal
engines. It will be a long time tell something new come along. JLC
 
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JLC wrote:
> Sure HL2 had some
> amazing graphics, but at times they got a little boring to look at. I
mean
> how many old sheds, and industrial buildings does a person have to
look at
> in one game? After the "WOW" factor wore off I got tired of the way
the game
> looked.

That's not really due to the level of detail in the graphics, it's more
to do with the drab setting of the game (go see an Eastern European
city for yourself) and repetitive use of the same textures. If anything
I think there's more variety in HL2 than in Far Cry.

Reusing textures saves memory and probably helps levels load and render
more quickly, and is an issue that won't go away with photorealistic
textures.

The thing about photorealism is that it is realistic and in real life
you don't often get exactly repeating textures. So for true
photorealism you'd need some way of either slightly changing the
textures when they are tiled, or of building them up from different
elements (on the fly?) Or you could use each texture once only and have
hundreds of different brick walls for example.
 
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"Chadwick" <chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1107340208.915013.189970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> JLC wrote:
>> Sure HL2 had some
>> amazing graphics, but at times they got a little boring to look at. I
> mean
>> how many old sheds, and industrial buildings does a person have to
> look at
>> in one game? After the "WOW" factor wore off I got tired of the way
> the game
>> looked.
>
> That's not really due to the level of detail in the graphics, it's more
> to do with the drab setting of the game (go see an Eastern European
> city for yourself) and repetitive use of the same textures. If anything
> I think there's more variety in HL2 than in Far Cry.
>

Actually you don't have to travel to Eastern Europe to see the buildings in
HL2. Most are from right here in the Seattle area. I don't have the link
anymore but there's a site that shows the pictures taken around the South
end of Seattle that Valve used for reference. JLC
 
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Thusly "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> Spake Unto All:

>You bring up a very good point when it comes to gaming graphics. Do we
>really want "photo realistic graphics" in the games we play?

Yes.

>I for one
>don't. I prefer a somewhat more "cartoonish" look to the games I play.
>FarCry was about as "real" looking as I'd want in a game.

Then play games with cartoonish-looking graphics.
 
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Chadwick wrote:
That's not really due to the level of detail in the graphics, it's more
> to do with the drab setting of the game (go see an Eastern European
> city for yourself) and repetitive use of the same textures. If anything
> I think there's more variety in HL2 than in Far Cry.

Agreed. There was far more variety in HL2 than Far Cry. As for
"repetitive texture" this is simply the usual bandying about of common
troll bait IMO - of course there are loads of repetition : it's in order
to set the ambience of a boring dull city. How many bricks are different
in a wall? The outside levels in HL2 were stunning too - that part where
the sky glows orange (after the chopper has been mining you), is simply
stunning.
 
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On 31 Jan 2005 10:37:51 -0800, laptopsurfer@gmail.com (laptopsurfer)
wrote:

>Hi
>
>I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
>looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
>Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
>using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
>then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
>epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>
>LaptopSurfer

The problem with having photoreal graphics is that anything that's not
perfect is going to really stand out. You could probably photomodel a
house and have it look pretty good in screenshots, but as soon as you
start moving around in it you're going to start seeing things that
break the illusion. Bump, specular or reflect maps that aren't quite
right, aliasing, imperfect shadows, ect. Any control lag or framerate
issues will also stand out since your brain expects to see smooth
motion with that quality of picture. (look how easy it is to spot a
car chase that's been sped up in a movie. it just LOOKS wrong.)

In games like Half Life or Farcry your brain sees a nice picture and
you interpret it as "almost real".
Once you get to a certain point your brain starts seeing it as reality
"with something wrong".
It's like the difference between looking at a very realistic painting
or a photo with bad color correction. Neither is completly accurate,
but most people would find the painting to be more pleasing to the
eye.
 
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Walter Mitty wrote:
> Chadwick wrote:
> That's not really due to the level of detail in the graphics, it's
more
> > to do with the drab setting of the game (go see an Eastern European
> > city for yourself) and repetitive use of the same textures. If
anything
> > I think there's more variety in HL2 than in Far Cry.
>
> Agreed. There was far more variety in HL2 than Far Cry. As for
> "repetitive texture" this is simply the usual bandying about of
common
> troll bait IMO - of course there are loads of repetition : it's in
order
> to set the ambience of a boring dull city. How many bricks are
different
> in a wall? The outside levels in HL2 were stunning too - that part
where
> the sky glows orange (after the chopper has been mining you), is
simply
> stunning.

I didn't mean "repetitive" in a negative sense. Perhaps, I should have
just said "reuse". However, while I've got Nitpicker 1.2beta running, I
would point out that in many brick walls, there are very few identical
bricks. Even if the bricks themselves actually are the same, the
effects of environmental damage and human intervention give them all a
different appearance.
 
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One big problem to obtain the photo realistic graphics is the close up of
textures.
From a far, a landscape or 3d model textures could be perfectly
photorealistic, but what if the player come closer and closer to the
model, to some extent, the pixelated nature and the polygonic base of 3d
computer display will destroy the illusion of photorealism.
Unless, there is some scalable fractal texture rendering scheme in which
as player come closer, the curves and rounded shape bacomes more define
(fractal-like autogenerated anti-aliasing to infinnity), texture
automatically become indefinitely finer, more details, for example, look
closer on the skin of a NPC, you can see pores, blemishes, pock marks
clearer and clearer....(that could, in some extent, lead to grotesqueness
though:)


laptopsurfer wrote:

> Hi
>
> I was wondering having seen the "fake" image of Half-life 3 which
> looks like a photo realistic game ... what is the future for this ?
> Will we have games that look like a movie ? how will this be done
> using digital cameras and some how stiching the images together and
> then layering the players, models ontop of that? Is this something we
> epeect to see in the next 10 years of longer ?
>
> LaptopSurfer
 
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"Jeff Holinski" <holinski@shaw.com> wrote in message
news:ue5201h067bif2aillsojm6kgaqlm2vs9g@4ax.com...

> The problem with having photoreal graphics is that anything that's not
> perfect is going to really stand out. You could probably photomodel a
> house and have it look pretty good in screenshots, but as soon as you
> start moving around in it you're going to start seeing things that
> break the illusion. Bump, specular or reflect maps that aren't quite
> right, aliasing, imperfect shadows, ect. Any control lag or framerate
> issues will also stand out since your brain expects to see smooth
> motion with that quality of picture. (look how easy it is to spot a
> car chase that's been sped up in a movie. it just LOOKS wrong.)

Yup, there's a name for that this which originally came out of Robotics and
is now also applied to graphics. The "Uncanny Valley".

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102086/

http://www.robotjohnny.com/archives/2004/10/pixar_and_the_u.php
 
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DaveL wrote:
> "HockeyTownUSA" <magma@killspam.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:bM6dnYA6Wu82UGPcRVn-hg@comcast.com...
>
>>
>>
>> That still looks cartoonish. I'm waiting for the day when it looks
>> *real*!
>
>
> Be careful what you wish for... You may get it. I don't know if I would
> want to play some of these games if they were too realistic.
>
> DaveL

Indeed.

Soldier of Fortune with realistic graphics? We'd become completely
desensitized to violence if that came around.
 

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