Possible issue with nForce 3 and 6800 cards

[Kha]

OK, lets go,

I have a MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum motherboard, nVidia nForce 3 250 chipset and a BFG6800 Ultra OC card. At default clock values it is not possible run any Direct 3D application. The rendering subsystem just pauses for 4 to 10 seconds and, after the pause, resumes operation for a few seconds and pauses again and so on. For reading forums i know there are many people with this same problem. All of them have nForce 3 chipsets motherboards and 6800 cards. The problem is not happening in OpenGL games or 6800 in Via chipsets or not 6800 in nForce 3 chipsets, this is happening ONLY in nForce 3 with 6800/6800GT/6800 Ultra.

If you overclock your card the problem goes worse. More overclock will give you more and longer pauses. OpenGL games are fine and does not present this problem. This is happening only for all Direct 3D software (ie 3D Mark 2003/2005).

If you have an overclocked card (like me) the only cure/workaround is underclock it to stock nVidia reference values.

If you test the same card (without underclock it) in a Via chipset motherboard (or OpenGL software) all go fine and without pauses.

Just courious if THG or some of you have experienced the same problem.

You can read these thread too:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=126
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=423499#423499

Thank you and kind regards.

 

[Bosse]

<A HREF="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=126" target="_new"> Clicky </A>

hmm I hope thats not true since i just bought MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum and an Asus 6800GT!!!

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[BrandtP]

I have not got a 6800 Ultra card, but I had this same question. I had visited a local computer store and the salesperson had mentioned this happening with those as well as the 6800 GT's. I figured it was just salesman rhetoric, but maybe it's not. I have yet to have problems with my EVGA Geforce 6800 and nForce 3 motherboard. The guy had mentioned there was to be a firmware update, but I would guess that is going to be up to each card manufacturer to do. Then again, he could have been full of it.

 

[Bosse]

Hmm i have been reading on some forums and i think it looks more like a BFG/nforce3 problem than a GF6800/nForce3 problem!

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Kha]

This would be because BFG's are overclocked at manufacturing process. There is no problem with 6800 at stock reference speeds, this is valid to BFG's too. If i downclock the card to stock reference nVidia speeds (400 core, 1100 vram for my ultra) from BFG's default overclocking values (454 core, 1180 vram) the problem is gone.
I know, it is relative if it is valid to whine for no be able to run the card beyond specification but the bottom line is this (two possibilities):

1) nForce 3 chipset are worse (just the worst of all if the problem is not fixed) than Via chipset for overclock nVidia 6800 cards or these nVidia chipsets are having some problem at these speeds with these cards.
2) nVidia is limiting the overclocking capability of their svga elite line with this chipset and if you want ultra speeds you must buy a ultra card, no more 6800 GT running at ultra speeds (marketing strategy).

Both two scenarios are impeding me get all juice from my recently bought hardware.

I will be happy for you if you are right. Good luck with your rig. Please repost here when you have tested your hardware.

What do you think about?

 

[Bosse]

I get my stuff 7/1 -04 then i´ll try OC the hell out of it. And damm if the hardware dont obey my whip.

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Bosse]

btw anyone else with nForce3/Gf6800 experience ???

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[pauldh]

Way to go NV. :tongue: That stinks for you.


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>

 

[KCjoker]

If the theory of Nvidia doing this on purpose is true wouldn't people have the same trouble with Nforce 4 chipsets?

 

[Kha]

Oh well, i dont know if this is done on purpose but the facts are:
1) Why vanilla 6800 begins to fail just when you overclock the card passing the stock speeds?
2) Why 6800 GT begins to fail just when you overclock the card passing the stock speeds?
3) The same would be applied to the Ultra, you can not pass from stock speeds without pauses.

I mean, if it is a chipset bug or driver bug, if you are unable to overclock a 6800 and these do not run well passing 300 Mhz core, GTs and Ultras would do not run at their stock reference speed for be more than 300 Mhz. The fail only pop-ups when you overclock the cards relative to the reference speed of each card model. This is very rare would say.

 

[KCjoker]

Yea, it is weird and I hope someone figures out the problem I'd be pissed if I had the problem.

 

[pauldh]

I have the same mobo as you, and a 6800GT was high on my list if/when I ever found one for under $300. But right now, I don't think I'd risk it. The neo2p and a R9800 pro have been solid, I'd hate to upgrade into troubles. I guess it's back to fishing for a X800XT or hoping X800XL gets bridged to AGP. I really want a 16 pipe AGP card to last me a a while until PCI-e clearly takes over and I am forced to switch. Just not sure if I can hold out for R520 or not, and not feeling too good about availbility of AGP models either when it does. HIS X800XL AGP for under $300, that's all I asking for.



<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>

 

[Bosse]

Go for 6800GT as I!!! Dont u like a little challange ?

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Bosse]

This should fix the problem:

"With Riva Tuner, open it and click "Customize" at the end of the line that says "Forceware Detected". Select the icon that looks like a DirectX representation. Go to the "Blitting" tab, and check the top two boxes. Save that, then go to the Settings tab, and select "Send to tray on close" and "Run at Windows Startup".

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Kha]

If you can alleviate the problem by tweaking Direct X settings, i think this issue would be driver related and there would be some possibility for a fix in the next Forceware driver.

Thank you anyway.

 

[Kha]

*** UPDATE ***

Ok, just for your information.
For users of BFGs vga cards and MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum

1) BFG 6800 Ultra OC is overclocked by default at manufacturing process (the OC part in the name). Core clock is 425 Mhz instead the 400 Mhz for reference boards, yes you would know this yet...

2) MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum overclocks the vga for about 29 Mhz by default. This is done by a hidden BIOS setting.

If you install coolbits and open the overclocking section of the Forceware drivers you will see a 454 Khz core for your BFG 6800 ultra like stock default speed (if you have selected the no overclock option). It is the overclocked stock frecuency 425 + 29 Mhz of motherboard BIOS overclocking feature.

For troubleshooting purposes i recomend disable this hidden motherboard BIOS setting in the MSI K8N NEO 2.

You can access to hidden BIOS setting with the SHIFT+F2 followed by CTRL+F3 key combination in the Core Cell menu (and advanced chipset menu too i think).

One thing more:
Latest nvidia drivers have a know problem with data execution prevention feature. This is a new security feature only active for AMD 64 and Windows XP SP2. To avoid this please...
Go to start-->control panel-->performance and maintenance-->system-->advanced options-->startup-->EDIT

Now, you are editing the boot.ini file system. You must change the following (be very carefull because you would run in boot problems):

/noexecute=optin

to the following:

/noexecute=allwaysoff

Doing this you will disable the new DEP feature. nVidia drivers after 61.77 are having a issue with DEP. The issue consist in BSOD with the IRQ_NOT_GREATER_THAN_OR _EQUAL message.

Remember change back the boot.ini to default (/noexecute=optin) when nvidia fix the problem.

I am runnig now all programs without any problem at stock reference speeds 400 Mhz core 1100 Mhz memory. At these speeds no more pauses/freezes/BSODs.

I hope all this information will be helpfull to you.

Kind regards.

 

[Bosse]

i got my MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum and Asus GF6800gt 350/1000 and tried a little UT2004 and i also get these [-peep-] freezelags !!! i had set my mind to "ok i cant oc" but i cant even [-peep-] run @ stock grrrr aahhh

Now i´ve played a little more and got that IRQ_NOT_GREATER_THAN_OR _EQUAL [-peep-] also !!! omfg i couldent get more pissed off

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Bosse on 01/08/05 01:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Kha]

Welcome to the club Bosse.

I am beginning to think these nForce 3 chipset are a great piece of junk, i do not know if this is a hardware or software problem but i know for sure all these nVidia drivers are pure [-peep-].

Ok, and disabling the DEP feature did not cure the DRIVER_IRQL_NO_LESS_OR_EQUAL BSOD too. I am getting this BSOD randomly every 3 or 4 days, it happens at the very first network activity, Windows XP points to the NVSNPU.SYS driver, it is the nVidia Network Bus Enumerator. Windows XP just load well, the desktop is loaded and when the first network activity pops up (auto update may be). Bang!!!...the damn BSOD.

So far, with nForce 3 motherboards, latest nVidia drivers and 6800 svga you will face with the following problems:

Problem 1
---------
Component:
nForce3 5.10 drivers setup + not English Windows XP

Problem pops up:
At installation process.

Problem description:
In not English Windows XP, if you select full installation, the network management component setup will look for the "Users" security group. This group does not exists in not English windows and the intallation gives a error.

Possible work around:
When the error windows pops up, open a management console window, add the users and groups adding and create a "Users" (in English) user, this new user must belong to the users groups (in the language of your Windows XP). TO open a management console, open a command window and run the mmc command.

Problem 2
---------
Component:
SVGA/Forceware drivers/nForce 3/nForce 3 drivers

Problem pops up:
In Direct 3D applications when overclocked 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra are used.

Problem description:
Pauses/frezees every 3~5 seconds, all system activity is halted for about 4~10 seconds. If extreme overclocking is in use, the pause would give you a BSOD with the "Infinite Loop" message.

Possible work around:
Install coolbits and downclock your 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra to stock reference speeds these speeds are:
6800->300 core
6800 GT->350 core
6800 Ultra->400 core
BEWARE...Would be you must downclock your card bellow reference values. You will must find the correct ones. If downclocking to reference values does not cure the problem, left the speed at reference value and try disabling fast writes in motherboard BIOS too.

Problem 3
---------
Component:
nVidia networking bus enumerator/nVidia networking bus enumerator driver

Problem pops up:
At very first network activity (anti virus update, windows update and soo on) or at random times (downloading/surfing the web/ftp).

Problem description:
Suddenly, there are network activity, after a few seconds a BSOD sowing the message "DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" pops up. The operating system points to the NVSNPU.SYS driver like the culprit of the exception.

Possible work around:
It is not known, sorry. I am not a nVidia engineer.

Problem 4 (MSI specific)
---------
Component:
MSI Core Center

Problem pops up:
At times, when the MSI Core Center application starts.

Problem description:
Core Center give you three error messages. It says it is unable to load the required driver...blah...blah...blah...

Possible work around:
It is not known, sorry. I am not a MSI engineer either.

Please add here your issues/fixed and please...contact MSI/nVidia telling the problems. We need updated drivers ASAP.

Good luck and kind regards.

 

[Bosse]

Problem pops up:
In Direct 3D applications when overclocked 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra are used.
----------------------------------------------------------Well my doesnt even work @ stock settings.

have u ever talked to nvidia or any other company about the problem ??? I must know if its a hardware problem coz then i must get rid of the mobo or gfx.

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Vapor]

I'd guess it's the board as tons of other people have nearly the same setup (MSI K8N Neo2 Plat with a 6800xx AND oc'd!) and it works fine for them. There's also been a bunch of crappy MSI boards passing quality check in the past month, wouldn't be surprised if all parties involved with this problem had a bad board. There are also some reports of shoddy BIOSes on the new ones, try updating or rolling back to an older version.

It's a good board that has worked well with 6800s (and BFGs), just it's quirky and needs some work occasionally. There are, after all, hundreds of people who have gotten this board to work extremely well (most with no work) with the exact same cards.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[Kha]

I have not talked with nVidia because nVidia does not accept end users feedback. I have emailed MSI and BFG twice, the first time their reply was standard BIOS settings advices, it did not work, of course. The second e-mail was not replied by BFG and for the second e-mail to MSI i must wait until monday.

My motherboard date is by september, 1.3 BIOS version. I think i am not affected by this lower quality in the last month thing.

I think near the 40% of people with this motherboard are having these issues, the 60% does not apreciate the problem because are running the vga at stock reference speeds. The 99% of people with BFGs are having this problem. This would be because these BFGs are overclocked at default.

 

[Vapor]

I think near the 40% of people with this motherboard are having these issues, the 60% does not apreciate the problem because are running the vga at stock reference speeds. The 99% of people with BFGs are having this problem. This would be because these BFGs are overclocked at default.

Go to [H]'s forum, I'd take a guess at maybe 4 dozen people have the MSI K8N Plat with a 6800xx very well OCed (all the brands, too). Very few people have had complaints until VERY recently--I think you might have gotten the first boards from the batch.

BTW, it's nowhere near a 40/60 split. :tongue:

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[Bosse]

weeeeee !!!!!! as always it was a power issue!!!

Now i tried to give my gfx its own powerrail from the psu and now it runs gr8!!! even at 425/1150

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.

 

[Kha]

I am glad you fixed your problem.
I have a Antec Neo Power PSU and i have two dedicated +12v rails to the svga, like you know, i am experiencing these pauses if i overclock the 3d card. I have checked my PSU and it have 18 Amps for the +12V rail. Do you recomend me changing my PSU for an Antec True Power (30 amps in the +12V rail) then?
Thank You very much.

 

[Bosse]

would be good to try another psu i think. Mb u can borrow from someone ?

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.