Question Potential 13700k E-Cores problem

[dullbox]

Hello there.
Purchased my Intel 13700k somewhat year ago. Everything was fine, I suppose, or at least I didn't have any certain or critical problems with the hardware at all.

But literally yesterday, when I played the Warhammer 3, which is pretty processor intensive application, my PC suddenly became completely frozen. I mean, I can still hear loop of a different sounds, but no input is possible whatsoever.

I waited a little bit, and then force- rebooted my PC. This was strange, because nothing like that had ever occurred with me before. So, I tried to put my hardware through AIDA64 stability test. Again, previously, when I had just bought the processor, there was no problem with that at all, and all my cores temp were below 90C (additionally, I have Fractal Design S36 as cooling solution). First minute was fine, but then I started to see that throttling had occurred, just like overheating (temperature of the other components, MOS were fine), and then, after 02:14 minutes and seconds of test, — i got the same situation and my PC again become frozen.

Again waiting, nothing happens, force reboot. But this time I got frozen on a loading stage, till the MSI logo loading screen (MSI Z690 Carbon WIFI DDR5). Reboot again. Loading screen stage successfully passed, but my PC then became frozen on the desktop (Windows 11). Situation repeated every single time: my PC always getting frozen first seconds or minutes after the loading process, between motherboard loading screen and Windows desktop, buy typically on the Motherboard loading screen. But still I could access the BIOS and system was stable while I was there. MSI postcode display was showing nothing either besides last temperature stats of the processor (the moment PC freezes, the number freezes too).

Understating that this is almost certainly hardware problem, i decided to try different variants, include changing RAM — using only one memory stick, different ports, no XMP profile etc — trying to load PC using graphics core of the processor without my main GPU (RTX4080), some kind of testing my power unit etc. Nothing had changed after all of this manipulations.

Than, I decided to try manually adjust some CPU parameters in BIOS, because, at the moment, i was almost certainly sure, that the CPU was the issue. And one of the first thing I had done was turning off E-Cores of the processor in the BIOS. And that accidentally worked 😔: my PC turned on without a problems, run through the same AIDA64 stability test without a problem for 15 minutes straight, just like it had successfully pasted Intel Processor Diagnostic Tool test.

After it, i tried several more options include: BIOS and drivers update, but that changed nothing: launching my computer with E-Cores being on means imminent freezing in a matter of seconds or minutes.

So, what this can also be besides oblivious CPU malfunctioning and defect? Maybe someone else had the same problem? Maybe I am doing something wrong 🫠? Situation had punched me bad.

My PC specs:
Intel 13700k
MSI Z690 Carbon WiFi DDR5
Nvidia RTX4080
RAM 32Gb Trident Z5 F5-6800J3445

 

[Aeacus]

Looks like defective CPU. So, best to RMA it under warranty.

Now, it is possible that CPU issue came due to some other hardware.
PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?

 

[dullbox]

Looks like defective CPU. So, best to RMA it under warranty.

Now, it is possible that CPU issue came due to some other hardware.
PSU make and model (or part number) is? Also, how old the PSU is, and was the PSU bought new or used/refurbished?

GIGABYTE AORUS GP-AP850GM, second Rev, 80PLUS Gold. Bought completely new less then two years ago.

 

[dullbox]

Also, several logs at Event Viewer System log were created.
First one:

- <Event xmlns="

http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event

">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power" Guid="{331c3b3a-2005-44c2-ac5e-77220c37d6b4}" />
<EventID>41</EventID>
<Version>9</Version>
<Level>1</Level>
<Task>63</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000400000000002</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2024-03-17T01:43:01.5907986Z" />
<EventRecordID>104970</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="8" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>VTV</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-19" />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="BugcheckCode">0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter1">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter2">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter3">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter4">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="SleepInProgress">0</Data>
<Data Name="PowerButtonTimestamp">0</Data>
<Data Name="BootAppStatus">0</Data>
<Data Name="Checkpoint">0</Data>
<Data Name="ConnectedStandbyInProgress">false</Data>
<Data Name="SystemSleepTransitionsToOn">0</Data>
<Data Name="CsEntryScenarioInstanceId">0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckInfoFromEFI">false</Data>
<Data Name="CheckpointStatus">0</Data>
<Data Name="CsEntryScenarioInstanceIdV2">0</Data>
<Data Name="LongPowerButtonPressDetected">false</Data>
<Data Name="LidReliability">false</Data>
<Data Name="InputSuppressionState">0</Data>
<Data Name="PowerButtonSuppressionState">0</Data>
<Data Name="LidState">3</Data>


</EventData>
</Event>

Three identical logs like this had been created.

 

[dullbox]

Another one:

- <Event xmlns="

http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event

">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-WHEA-Logger" Guid="{c26c4f3c-3f66-4e99-8f8a-39405cfed220}" />
<EventID>1</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>2</Level>
<Task>0</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000002</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2024-03-17T01:06:59.5506604Z" />
<EventRecordID>104797</EventRecordID>
<Correlation ActivityID="{49c017de-d220-426d-9f06-34c7383d8305}" />
<Execution ProcessID="5080" ThreadID="5808" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>VTV</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-19" />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="Length">3552</Data>

<Data Name="RawData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</EventData>
</Event>

Sorry for being too long, but this is what system gave to me.

 

[dullbox]

And this:

- <Event xmlns="

http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event

">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Service Control Manager" Guid="{555908d1-a6d7-4695-8e1e-26931d2012f4}" EventSourceName="Service Control Manager" />
<EventID Qualifiers="49152">7034</EventID>
<Version>0</Version>
<Level>2</Level>
<Task>0</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8080000000000000</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2024-02-22T03:26:16.0922307Z" />
<EventRecordID>95973</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="1120" ThreadID="23436" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>VTV</Computer>
<Security />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="param1">Energy Server Service queencreek</Data>
<Data Name="param2">1</Data>
<Binary>45005300520056005F005300560043005F0051005500450045004E0043005200450045004B000000</Binary>


</EventData>
</Event>

 

[Aeacus]

GIGABYTE AORUS GP-AP850GM, second Rev, 80PLUS Gold.

That's one interesting PSU. 🤔 And on quite many ways as well.

It is the successor of Gigabyte GP-P850GM series, which did reliably blew up and where Gigabyte ended up recalling entire product line.

Here's how predecessor fared:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aACtT_rzToI


Now, the Gigabyte GP-AP850GM you have, is made by PSU OEM that is unheard of: MEIC. MEIC is known for making power adapters. But GP-AP850GM is their 1st production regarding making PC PSU. And this lack of experience also shows a bit.
In-depth review of your PSU: https://www.kitguru.net/components/...opoulos/gigabyte-aorus-gp-ap850gm-psu-review/

Your PSU falls short of hold-up time and it has severe issues with DC power sequencing. Other than that, unit looks good.

However:

Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power
EventID 41

This event indicates power failure. Now, it doesn't say what component caused it, but with PCs, there are only two:
* MoBo VRMs
* PSU

Based on PSU review, PSU "should" be good, but the fact that it is made by MEIC and not some other PSU OEM who has been in business for a LONG time (e.g Flextronics, Seasonic, Great Wall and few others), would make me to suspect the PSU. Also, it is a possibility that it was your PSU that caused your CPU E-cores to fault. CPUs are very sensitive to voltage changes and when PSU has issues in voltage regulation and/or ripple, it can cause all kinds of issues. Now, your unit review didn't show voltage regulation or ripple issues. So, PSU "might" be good.

At this point, your options are;
* use CPU without E-cores
* RMA CPU and get a new one. If 2nd CPU produces same issue as well, replace PSU, preferably different brand (like Seasonic Vertex/PRIME, Corsair HXi/AXi or Super Flower Leadex).
OR you can replace the PSU right now, if you'd be worried it possibly killing your 2nd CPU as well.

I'm torn in-between. Review says PSU is good, but PSU OEM is new kid in the block and your symptoms indicate possible PSU issue.

 

[35below0]

Even if the PSU mdel fixed the issues of the predecessor, it is still possible the PSU caused a fault. A similar one.
Even a very good PSU could still be faulty if one were really unlucky.

So if evidence points to a faulty PSU, then i'd go with that even if reviews are good now and the old problem fixed.

The PSU is also under warranty, so i would try replacing it.
If the problem persist with a new or borrowed PSU, then i'd replace the CPU.

 

[dullbox]

Thank your for the advise

I'm torn in-between. Review says PSU is good, but PSU OEM is new kid in the block and your symptoms indicate possible PSU issue.

I knew about it and, as I heard, the problem with previous 850 was 3090/3090ti cards specifically.
But still: maybe this EventID 41 is happening, because I am, technically, forcefully and unexpectedly shutdown my PC?
Nevertheless, I planned to change my PSU shortly for more powerful model.
But, this CPU failure is unexpected.

Any recommendations or PSU model?
I was thinking about Super Flower Leadex SF-1600F14HP 1600W ATX Platinum.

 

[35below0]

Thank your for the advise

But still: maybe this EventID 41 is happening, because I am, technically, forcefully and unexpectedly shutdown my PC?

Technically yes, but something forced your PC to freeze. And the PSU seems like a good place to start looking for answers.

 

[dullbox]

Technically yes, but something forced your PC to freeze. And the PSU seems like a good place to start looking for answers.

Maybe my PSU is the part of the problem.
But still, I don't think it is directly connected with the freezings, because, in a such case, my PC would almost definitely stopped working, while it's not. Just like several E-Cores cannot add that much pressure alone.

 

[35below0]

It's not unheard of that PCs keep working and only mess up when the PSU has to do something that trips it up.
You might get artifacts on screen, or crashes. Display going black sometimes. These can be caused by a PSU that is unable to supply needed power or is faulty in some way. And yet the same PC could carry on working for years with the same PSU as long as the conditions that trip the PSU are never met.

I am not sure the PSU is to blame, but it may have done something to mess up the E cores. Overall it sounds like a faulty CPU, even if the PSU contributed (or didn't).
It's just that CPUs 99% of time just don't die, and PSU do eventually wear out and are unable to supply needed power in a stable manner.

It's what warranty is for. Not for poor quality but for one offs and production errors.

 

[dullbox]

It's not unheard of that PCs keep working and only mess up when the PSU has to do something that trips it up.
You might get artifacts on screen, or crashes. Display going black sometimes. These can be caused by a PSU that is unable to supply needed power or is faulty in some way. And yet the same PC could carry on working for years with the same PSU as long as the conditions that trip the PSU are never met.

I am not sure the PSU is to blame, but it may have done something to mess up the E cores. Overall it sounds like a faulty CPU, even if the PSU contributed (or didn't).
It's just that CPUs 99% of time just don't die, and PSU do eventually wear out and are unable to supply needed power in a stable manner.

It's what warranty is for. Not for poor quality but for one offs and production errors.

Than what kind of PSU you would probably recommend? Maybe somewhere between 1200 and 1600 Watts, because of all this upcoming and energy demanding CPUs, and GPUs?

 

[35below0]

No, for your specs a good quality 1000w would do. Maybe even 800w. Not sure how much juice the 4080 needs. Checking with nvidia, they say minimum is 750, so 1000 is enough wiggle room.

be quiet Pure Power M 12
Corsair RM1000e (2023)
Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 TT Premium
Montech Titan Gold
Deepcool PQ1000M
Seasonic FOCUS GX

 

[dullbox]

No, for your specs a good quality 1000w would do. Maybe even 800w. Not sure how much juice the 4080 needs. Checking with nvidia, they say minimum is 750, so 1000 is enough wiggle room.

I am speaking also about the potential upgrade, keeping in mind upcoming GPU and CPU.

 

[dullbox]

But can this be my mother board?
Another interesting fact: when my PC got frozen my mouse and keyboard were visually on and working, even still I couldn't use them. But if I disconnect them from the USB slots on my MoBo, they will not react at all: being dark (without lights) and off, just like my PC itself would be turned off.

 

[35below0]

But can this be my mother board?
Another interesting fact: when my PC got frozen my mouse and keyboard were visually on and working, even still I couldn't use them. But if I disconnect them from the USB slots on my MoBo, they will not react at all: being dark (without lights) and off, just like my PC itself would be turned off.

It could be, but it's harder to eliminate the motherboard without moving all components onto a different one. It's easier to start with the PSU, then try the CPU. The motherboard is usually only coonsidered guilty once everything else has been eliminated.

For future upgrades, you can step up to a 1200w model of one of the PSUs i suggested. Recommendations are fine, but try to read reviews. hardwarevbusters is pretty good for PSUs.

 

[Aeacus]

Any recommendations or PSU model?
I was thinking about Super Flower Leadex SF-1600F14HP 1600W ATX Platinum.

This is good PSU, almost one of the best 1.6kW units out there. Though, 1.6kW makes sense if you plan to go with RTX 4090 or upcoming RTX 50-series highest end version. For RTX 4080 and the like, 1kW unit will do.

Three 1.6kW kings,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/cJbwrH,2BcRsY,64NYcf/

For 1kW unit, these are great options,
Seasonic, pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/fKhmP6,RqYmP6,m72WGX,W2zXsY/
Super Flower, pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/rt848d,9MV2FT,FVXV3C,gjDQzy/
Corsair, pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/w9Jkcf,jRvdnQ,LTmNnQ/

For even wider option,
further reading: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/5/

 

[mjbn1977]

No, for your specs a good quality 1000w would do. Maybe even 800w. Not sure how much juice the 4080 needs. Checking with nvidia, they say minimum is 750, so 1000 is enough wiggle room.

be quiet Pure Power M 12
Corsair RM1000e (2023)
Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 TT Premium
Montech Titan Gold
Deepcool PQ1000M
Seasonic FOCUS GX

4080 takes about 280 to 320 watts in gaming. In combination with the 13700k a good 850 watts PSU will absolutely do it. You can even go and use a quality 750 watt PSU but that would be the lowest I go on this setup.