Prefilled Water Cooling Just Got A Lot More Compact With Corsair H5 SF

[Sakkura]

you don't see that this might not be designed for a super overclocking SFF pc? 24 CFM may be able to cool a simple 95W i7 to safe temps while remaining whisper quiet.

less coolant flow does not mean less cooling. how do passive coolers work? you cant turn a 10 element equation into a simple 1 element equation.

Sure I see that. I'm sure this will be a lot better than, say, the stock cooler from Intel. I'm just not convinced it will be better than the cheaper third-party air cooling solutions that are available.

Ceteris paribus, less coolant flow does certainly mean less cooling. Passive coolers work by having a very large surface area partially compensating for the low airflow, and passive coolers do have low cooling performance compared to active coolers.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Ceteris paribus, less coolant flow means less cooling. All the evidence we have points to this probably being a low performance cooler, not the high-performance overclocking champion people seem to expect (based on absolutely no evidence).

That is not what anyone, myself included, were saying. My first comment was that it was interesting and we need reviews to see the performance.

You decided to take one factor and outright say t is going to suck with no proof to back it up. In essence you took an opinion to try to make it fact.

I don't see it as a overclocking champ but I do see higher end CPUs and such being able to be put into mITX with cooler temps than the stock or even some after market fans.

 

[RedJaron]

Sure I see that. I'm sure this will be a lot better than, say, the stock cooler from Intel. I'm just not convinced it will be better than the cheaper third-party air cooling solutions that are available.

This is my main concern as well. I don't think something like this is going to cost less than $70. So in a case where this H5 can fit, why is it more desirable than a CM GeminII, Cryorig C1 or C7, or any one of Zalman's good orbital coolers? You can even get some mini tower coolers to fit in that space. I can't say for certain of course, I need to see actual reviews and numbers first, but as of right now this just looks like a solution that can be done simpler and cheaper.

 

[Vogner16]

Sure I see that. I'm sure this will be a lot better than, say, the stock cooler from Intel. I'm just not convinced it will be better than the cheaper third-party air cooling solutions that are available.

This is my main concern as well. I don't think something like this is going to cost less than $70. So in a case where this H5 can fit, why is it more desirable than a CM GeminII, Cryorig C1 or C7, or any one of Zalman's good orbital coolers? You can even get some mini tower coolers to fit in that space. I can't say for certain of course, I need to see actual reviews and numbers first, but as of right now this just looks like a solution that can be done simpler and cheaper.

it will cost $80.

while I am a huge fan of zalman and their orbital coolers but they don't exhaust hot air from the case that well.

a huge part of this cooler will lie in the fact that marketing wins the sales. how else do you explain apple...

despite the fact that other companies may have solutions that cool just as well and are cheaper this will sell quite well because people want water cooling. I remember when everyone was scared of water, now everyone wants to try it. its just a big marketing thing.

 

[Sakkura]

That is not what anyone, myself included, were saying. My first comment was that it was interesting and we need reviews to see the performance.

You decided to take one factor and outright say t is going to suck with no proof to back it up. In essence you took an opinion to try to make it fact.

I don't see it as a overclocking champ but I do see higher end CPUs and such being able to be put into mITX with cooler temps than the stock or even some after market fans.

You were expecting it to "allow higher end products in tighter spaces" ie. you were expecting better performance than current coolers. So you made a claim about the performance right in the first post. But shame on me for daring to make a counterpoint based on actual facts.

 

[jimmysmitty]

That is not what anyone, myself included, were saying. My first comment was that it was interesting and we need reviews to see the performance.

You decided to take one factor and outright say t is going to suck with no proof to back it up. In essence you took an opinion to try to make it fact.

I don't see it as a overclocking champ but I do see higher end CPUs and such being able to be put into mITX with cooler temps than the stock or even some after market fans.

You were expecting it to "allow higher end products in tighter spaces" ie. you were expecting better performance than current coolers. So you made a claim about the performance right in the first post. But shame on me for daring to make a counterpoint based on actual facts.

Read it again. I said "might allow" I did not say "will allow" which is vastly different.

I did not say what you said which was "No proof, but it's rated for a pathetic 24 CFM which means it's going to be pretty poor." based on one single number and no reviews or actual use.

Again I made no claim to anything and even stated we would need to see reviews, you did not you just said it would be bad.

 

[logainofhades]

Yeah but at 84mm it will not fit into the coolermaster elile 110 case. ah heck..

No, but a Nepton 120xl will.

http://www.coolermaster.com/cooling/cpu-liquid-cooler/nepton-120xl/

 

[Onus]

FYI: we don't have enough information to know if this will be a good solution without having one and examining it with extreme scrutiny, or simply testing it ourselves.

This. Further arguing about it is just wasting time.

Sure, "liquid cooling" sounds neat. Fortunately, every time I've started to think about it, I find a thread in which someone's liquid cooler (AIO or custom loop) has taken a leak on his parts.

VRM cooling is an issue. I did indeed pop a VRM on a Z77E-ITX, I suspect due in part to splash heat from a HD7870, since the CPU was running at stock.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

There may not be test data on this particular CLC but there hasn't been a CLC released yet that competes on a noise / performance basis with the comparably priced air coolers. And while the data is not yet in on this particular unit, let's remember the deficiencies of the H series to date:

1. Going cheap with aluminum rads limits performance.
2. Aluminum Rad / Copper Block violates 1st rule of water cooling .... no mixed metals (galvanic corrosion)
3. Corrosion inhibitors and algaecides have a limited life ... I'd be afraid to use beyond warranty period
4. Not a single H series cooler released to date provides adequate flow rates.... even H100i is 0.11 gpm
5. The only way they can approach the thermal performance of cheaper air coolers is to install extreme rpm fans where the noise level is comparable to a vacuum cleaner.

If ya want water cooling, the entry point is $130.

 

[Sakkura]

Read it again. I said "might allow" I did not say "will allow" which is vastly different.

I did not say what you said which was "No proof, but it's rated for a pathetic 24 CFM which means it's going to be pretty poor." based on one single number and no reviews or actual use.

Again I made no claim to anything and even stated we would need to see reviews, you did not you just said it would be bad.

You were still stating an expectation based on zero evidence. I stated my expectation based on some actual evidence.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

There may not be test data on this particular CLC but there hasn't been a CLC released yet that competes on a noise / performance basis with the comparably priced air coolers. And while the data is not yet in on this particular unit, let's remember the deficiencies of the H series to date:

1. Going cheap with aluminum rads limits performance.
2. Aluminum Rad / Copper Block violates 1st rule of water cooling .... no mixed metals (galvanic corrosion)
3. Corrosion inhibitors and algaecides have a limited life ... I'd be afraid to use beyond warranty period
4. Not a single H series cooler released to date provides adequate flow rates.... even H100i is 0.11 gpm
5. The only way they can approach the thermal performance of cheaper air coolers is to install extreme rpm fans where the noise level is comparable to a vacuum cleaner.

If ya want water cooling, the entry point is $130.

Thank you. I always say that the Corsair H100i is basically the Corsair CX of water coolers when there are many better options out there. Around its price, I'd take a Cooler Master Nepton 240m anyday.

I think 95% of people who buy any pre-done water cooler for their PC are wasting their money. So they may get .3Ghz better than a high-end air cooler, maybe not even, or = cooling. Why not just spend the extra money toward a better CPU?

Some people may need water cooling, and I don't see water cooling a CPU a viable reason for a gaming build other than aesthetics (and let's be clear the H100i is not really anything gorgeous). Maybe if you need to water cool a 5960X to overclock it because you do heavy professional rendering, then it makes total sense, and even then you would make a $300 custom loop that performs far better than the premade coolers.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Thank you. I always say that the Corsair H100i is basically the Corsair CX of water coolers when there are many better options out there. Around its price, I'd take a Cooler Master Nepton 240m anyday.

I think 95% of people who buy any pre-done water cooler for their PC are wasting their money. So they may get .3Ghz better than a high-end air cooler, maybe not even, or = cooling. Why not just spend the extra money toward a better CPU?

Some people may need water cooling, and I don't see water cooling a CPU a viable reason for a gaming build other than aesthetics (and let's be clear the H100i is not really anything gorgeous). Maybe if you need to water cool a 5960X to overclock it because you do heavy professional rendering, then it makes total sense, and even then you would make a $300 custom loop that performs far better than the premade coolers.

But they won't get 0.3 Ghz better cause air coolers cool better for the same investment. Simply put, there is no "raison d'être" for CLCs. They don't cool any better than air coolers and, even when they get close, they make a lot more noise than the air coolers .... so why go there ?

1. They get beaten thermally by cheaper air coolers
2. The air coolers beat them thermally while doing it quieter. (H100i is 12 times louder than the Noc)
3. This is what happens when you mix a copper block and aluminum rad and the corrosion inhibitors reach end of useful life (24-36 months)
https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/
4. 0.11 gpm just doesn't cut it. which is why the Swiftewch / EK AIOs manage to top the H100i w/o 2700 rpm fan speeds

The other argument oft put forth, is that "I don't want a 2 pound weight warping my motherboard". I really don't get that one .... why is 2 pounds of force an issue when the recommend clamping force for TIMs is 55- 70 pounds on the heat sink / water block posts ?

The one argument I can see is the "I don't like looking at a big metal thing". If ya don't like it the aesthetics, ya don't like it, no argument from me.

And since the arrival's of AIOs that are not CLCs, I'm really surprised that Corsair and others manage to sell CLCs. A Swiftech H240-X AIO will handle your CPU better than any CLC made ..... and all ya need is a GPU water block, 2 fittings, some premix coolant and 18" of tube for your 980 Ti and now your GPU is water cooled.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Yeah so basically aesthetics is the only reason.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

I would say "was" not "is". Since the Swiftech h220-X came out and now with EKs new Predator line, I can't see a reason to use a CLC

 

[RedJaron]

The other argument oft put forth, is that "I don't want a 2 pound weight warping my motherboard". I really don't get that one .... why is 2 pounds of force an issue when the recommend clamping force for TIMs is 55- 70 pounds on the heat sink / water block posts ?

Because compression and torsion are two completely different forces and require two very different material strengths to withstand. Now, a 2 lbs sink sitting on top of a board isn't usually an issue. A 2 lbs sink on the end of a 6" tower hanging off the side of a board is 1 ft lb of torque on the CPU socket. As a static load, it's no big deal. But if the system is moved around now and then, the acceleration will compound that torque to where it is a concern.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

No. Compression is the force that hold the backplate to the mounting plate at 4 locations. That's not relative to the discussion as it has 0 impact on the motherboard unless you tighten it to the extent that it crushes the PCB. Tightening down the mounting plate to the backplate also puts 0 clamping force between CPU and block / heat sink.

The force applied to the motherboard by the block / heat sink however is not compression, it's bending. Pushing down in the center, you have the slightly curved block pushing down in the center of those 4 posts. Here's a common image found in study guides for those studying for the PE (Professional Engineer) Licensing exam in structural engineering.

This simple beam image includes only 2 supports pushing up whereas we have 4 but I didn't have a 2 way slab / point load diagram readily available.

In the image, W is the force of the Heat Sink pushing down ... W/2 in the image (would be W/4 in our case) represents the force of the mounting bracket pushing up. Bending will occur in between.

It basically works like a gear puller.... or to visualize it better, think of two strips of aluminum 2 feet long. In the 1st one say 1/4 inch thick (representing the block / heatsink / steel mounting bracket assembly), drill three 1/4 inch holes, one at each and and one in the center. Thread the center hole. In the second say 1/8" thick (representing the MoBo), drill just the holes at each end. Fasten the two strips together with 1/4" bolts / nuts at each end. Now put a threaded bolt on the center hole

_|_________________V__________________|_
_______________________________________

The I symbol indicates the location of the bolts and nuts holding the two strips together just as the mounting plate / block / and backplate are held together with MoBo in between. The V represents the threaded bolt in the threaded hole of the water block / heat sink pushing down on the CPU socket / MoBo..

Now start tightening the center bolt .... the more ya tighten, the more that bottom plate is gonna bend.

Here's an image of the Phanteks air cooler. At this point there is compression load applied

Even when ya tighten down the two screws in the background and foreground, there is not much pressure applied by the heatsink to the CPU

However, when you tighten that middle screw, that presses the heat sink down on the CPU, a force which is opposed only by the 4 mounting points. Instead of the simple curve in the force diagram, the bending of the MoBo in this case is akin to to the shape of a square trampoline when you are standing in the center.

And yes, while a 2 pound block cantilvered off a MoBo is just fine for sitting on the desk, or even the back seat of ya car (my son's tower made 12 trips to college and back on his roof rack) I would never trust it to the FedEx gorillas who think Fragile means ... well let these guys show ya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTiiS3Ze_GY

 

[RedJaron]

I'm very familiar with the difference. But nothing I said was incorrect. Compression and torque are very different. I simplified it for anyone that doesn't have an engineering background or degree ( which doesn't include me. ) You said "why is 2 pounds of force an issue when the recommend clamping force for TIMs is 55- 70 pounds on the heat sink / water block posts ?". And my answer is still the same. Because the forces from moving the machine around with a huge cooler tower drastically changes the forces from when it's at rest, especially if the mboard is vertical.

Now yes, you get a little bit of shearing strain at the mounting pins due to the curvature of the board. But again, that's a static load, and unless you're sliding the box back and forth along a desk, the forces at each mounting post will be roughly even. That's not the case when the board is mounted vertically, which you acknowledged. That's all I was getting at. And yes, I've transported my machine a lot as well without cracking the board. No one's saying you can't. I'm just saying it's a consideration. I can't guarantee everyone handles their machine as carefully as I do mine. What's rough handling for some is walking on eggshells to another, so I'm not going to assume that everyone knows how to transport a tower cooler and treat it as though it's not a risk.

 

[Sakkura]

There's also a pretty big difference between 2 pounds of mass, and 2 pounds of force. 2 pounds of mass normally has 2 pounds of weight (force), but that's only at rest (on Earth).

 

[jimmysmitty]

Read it again. I said "might allow" I did not say "will allow" which is vastly different.

I did not say what you said which was "No proof, but it's rated for a pathetic 24 CFM which means it's going to be pretty poor." based on one single number and no reviews or actual use.

Again I made no claim to anything and even stated we would need to see reviews, you did not you just said it would be bad.

You were still stating an expectation based on zero evidence. I stated my expectation based on some actual evidence.

Using a single number is not proof. Proof would be multiple reviews in numerous situations to prove that it either is or is not bad.

And having an expectation is very different from assuming. I don;t have an expectation, specifically why I said we will need to see reviews. That is very different from your"here is a number, it is going to suck".

Jack, you really hate CLCs don't you? No one here has ever argued that CLCs are superior to custom loops and plenty know that Noctuas heatsinks do better but I will tell you that the install is easier and it is not nearly as loud as the tests make it out to be. I also got tired of installing massive heatsinks that when in movement can cause an issue.

CLCs might not be for you but they do serve a purpose.

 

[Sakkura]

Using a single number is not proof. Proof would be multiple reviews in numerous situations to prove that it either is or is not bad.

And having an expectation is very different from assuming. I don;t have an expectation, specifically why I said we will need to see reviews. That is very different from your"here is a number, it is going to suck".

I didn't say it was proof, in fact I have specifically said it was NOT proof, so you're deliberately manipulating my statements to fit your narrative.

I have provided evidence though, unlike you.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Using a single number is not proof. Proof would be multiple reviews in numerous situations to prove that it either is or is not bad.

And having an expectation is very different from assuming. I don;t have an expectation, specifically why I said we will need to see reviews. That is very different from your"here is a number, it is going to suck".

I didn't say it was proof, in fact I have specifically said it was NOT proof, so you're deliberately manipulating my statements to fit your narrative.

I have provided evidence though, unlike you.

I apologize. "evidence". You actually have no evidence and evidence and proof are similar, both are products that prove your side.

And you have no evidence but a single number from one aspect of the system to which I said does not mean anything without all the numbers and actual reviews and hard data. You made the assumption it would suck with nothing but a single number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14zCZhwxcVk

Looks like someone did a review and the temps look pretty good to me compared to what most people are using.

Noise is what I expected, pretty loud due to the blower but noise is a per person thing anyways. Fan noise doesn't bother me since I normally use headsets when gaming.

 

[Sakkura]

I apologize. "evidence". You actually have no evidence and evidence and proof are similar, both are products that prove your side.

And you have no evidence but a single number from one aspect of the system to which I said does not mean anything without all the numbers and actual reviews and hard data. You made the assumption it would suck with nothing but a single number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14zCZhwxcVk

Looks like someone did a review and the temps look pretty good to me compared to what most people are using.

Noise is what I expected, pretty loud due to the blower but noise is a per person thing anyways. Fan noise doesn't bother me since I normally use headsets when gaming.

Oh, I have no evidence? And then you mention the actual evidence I have? :lol:

You're posting a random youtube review from a nobody, and it demonstrates that the cooler is noisy. It's compared with a cooler that's in a completely different class, far smaller and cheaper. The Noctua NH-L9i barely even beats the Intel stock cooler. Of course the Corsair H5 SF must beat that little thing. Just too bad it can't even do that without getting noisy. If anything, this hints at the problems the H5 SF will encounter when compared against the real competition.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I apologize. "evidence". You actually have no evidence and evidence and proof are similar, both are products that prove your side.

And you have no evidence but a single number from one aspect of the system to which I said does not mean anything without all the numbers and actual reviews and hard data. You made the assumption it would suck with nothing but a single number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14zCZhwxcVk

Looks like someone did a review and the temps look pretty good to me compared to what most people are using.

Noise is what I expected, pretty loud due to the blower but noise is a per person thing anyways. Fan noise doesn't bother me since I normally use headsets when gaming.

Oh, I have no evidence? And then you mention the actual evidence I have? :lol:

You're posting a random youtube review from a nobody, and it demonstrates that the cooler is noisy. It's compared with a cooler that's in a completely different class, far smaller and cheaper. The Noctua NH-L9i barely even beats the Intel stock cooler. Of course the Corsair H5 SF must beat that little thing. Just too bad it can't even do that without getting noisy. If anything, this hints at the problems the H5 SF will encounter when compared against the real competition.

That review I posted is more evidence than a single number from the product. Your "evidence" is nothing but a number. It means nothing without the other factors put in.

Again, noise is a per person thing. I sit in a office with multiple PCs, and currently a high end switch, running so noise doesn't bother met. In fact this thing seems to be quieter than my AMD systems stock fan. I have met other people who are bothered by the quietest whisper, such as a PSU fan that most of the time you wont hear.

Until we get more reviews we wont have a solid foundation for the product but it seems like a decent little piece of hardware. Most other ITX coolers that will fit like this have very little more heatsink than the one he compared.

Another benefit is that the heat from this cooler is expelled out the back instead of spread in the case like it is in the case of most mITX coolers.

 

[Sakkura]

That review I posted is more evidence than a single number from the product. Your "evidence" is nothing but a number. It means nothing without the other factors put in.

Again, noise is a per person thing. I sit in a office with multiple PCs, and currently a high end switch, running so noise doesn't bother met. In fact this thing seems to be quieter than my AMD systems stock fan. I have met other people who are bothered by the quietest whisper, such as a PSU fan that most of the time you wont hear.

Until we get more reviews we wont have a solid foundation for the product but it seems like a decent little piece of hardware. Most other ITX coolers that will fit like this have very little more heatsink than the one he compared.

Another benefit is that the heat from this cooler is expelled out the back instead of spread in the case like it is in the case of most mITX coolers.

The evidence I had was official information from the manufacturer. You're just now bringing a deeply unreliable review from a random youtuber into the discussion, and it even appears to support what I said.

You may not care about noise, but it's still a crucial aspect of cooler performance. A cooler will generally cool better if it's allowed to spin its fan(s) faster and make more noise. So a proper comparison of coolers takes both cooling and noise into account.

 

[jimmysmitty]

That review I posted is more evidence than a single number from the product. Your "evidence" is nothing but a number. It means nothing without the other factors put in.

Again, noise is a per person thing. I sit in a office with multiple PCs, and currently a high end switch, running so noise doesn't bother met. In fact this thing seems to be quieter than my AMD systems stock fan. I have met other people who are bothered by the quietest whisper, such as a PSU fan that most of the time you wont hear.

Until we get more reviews we wont have a solid foundation for the product but it seems like a decent little piece of hardware. Most other ITX coolers that will fit like this have very little more heatsink than the one he compared.

Another benefit is that the heat from this cooler is expelled out the back instead of spread in the case like it is in the case of most mITX coolers.

The evidence I had was official information from the manufacturer. You're just now bringing a deeply unreliable review from a random youtuber into the discussion, and it even appears to support what I said.

You may not care about noise, but it's still a crucial aspect of cooler performance. A cooler will generally cool better if it's allowed to spin its fan(s) faster and make more noise. So a proper comparison of coolers takes both cooling and noise into account.

Your evidence is just one aspect that cannot be used to determine the cooling capacity of the product.

Noise has no bearing on the cooling capacity. I stated that I, as in myself and not someone else, am not as affected and that noise is a per person issue. I never said it was not important but that it will be something that is more judged by the individual while the cooling capacity will be something more concrete.

And I know, it is one random review but it is still more evidence of the coolers performance than your claims based on a single number.