Previous Generation Radeon HD Powers the Wii U

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Toggle sidebar Toggle sidebar
Status
Not open for further replies.
[citation][nom]gamerk316[/nom]Guys, consoles directly access hardware, and as such, offer better performance due to not having high level API's slowing everything down. A 4xxx series GPU on a console will be routhly equivalent in speed to whatever you can get on a PC today for that very reason.[/citation]

The first part is true but the performance estimates are a joke, their quite low actually. Weight in that a typical DX9 capable gpu needs tons of instructions to do a thing while a DX11 capable can do tons of that extra work in the GPU itself with the advanced shader programs that are allowed. There are several good examples of the performance advantages in DX11 vs DX9 while doing the same thing if the coders just know how to take advantage of them. So please.. don't try to justify the usage of a old gpu when there are far more advanced that will run circles around the old one!
 
Reading the comments here makes me laugh. Hahaha..

Have you watch the conference or even played with Wii? Nintendo is not aiming to have the best graphics available today or near future to beat out PS3 and XBox360. They want player experience and unique gameplay. Does parents with kids playing together care about how HD images the see on screen? No, cause they just want to spend the time together.

You do have to realize that most Wii players are young gamers, and that they're grown up. Wii U is for them and can play more intense gaming. I find it very hard to believe Nintendo wants Wii U to replace your PS3 or 360.

So what they're using older GPU? It's stable and cheap. And on par with PS3/360. Let's not forget PS3 had heat issues and 360 with RROD.
 
[citation][nom]nukemaster[/nom]BLAHH BLAH DX9 DX10 DX11Guess what? Nintendo DOES NOT USE DX anyway. Ohh and PS3, Nope. Even Xbox does not use the same dev kits as PC.So its time people shut up about DX versions and realize that a die shrunk 4XXX card will still be a massive upgrade in the console market. PS4 and Xbox will be better, but look how underpowered Wii was and yet it sold off the shelves non stop.[/citation]

Comparing DX9 and DX11 capable hardware is like comparing day and night, if the DX11 is properly utilized the Gpu can do loads of the work itself while a DX9 cant and are forced to run that in software ie cpu.. What your saying is that a DX9 capable gpu can do the same as a DX11 all of a sudden? So the talk about DX11 vs DX9 people are fully valid!
 
[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]Not true! remember the N64, you could get an addon to make it an N128. It drastically helped the overall system speed, didn't mess with game compatibility, and it allowed people to feel smug when they bought it. And lets not forget that it was wildly expensive for 64MB of ram, so there was plenty of profit margin in it. Make your own graphics port that has a screw slide-out like a direct jet network port on a printer, and hard core gamers will flock to the console even if the console is crap. The promise of future upgrades, and the demand for such capability, will keep them coming even if the upgrade cards never match the power of pc cards.[/citation]

Nintendo didn't have an addon that made the N64 an N128. The addon you are referring to was the expansion pak. The N64 only had 4MB of ram and the expansion pak addon was only an additional 4MB. Not all games took advantage of it, only the ones that were designed to take advantage of it showed any kind of benefits (usually used to up the resolution to 640x480 or allow larger worlds).

The downside to making a console with an upgradeable graphics card is it will make it harder for game developers to optimize their code for the console since they now have to worry about variations out there, some with better cards and some with not. This makes it harder to optimize the game, increases the code, and in the end may hurt potential performance. They could make certain games require the extra hardware, but then you will limit your market potential and shun the gamers who couldn't afford the add-on. And when this occurs, there won't be enough adoption of the add-on and game releases taking advantage of it will be minimal.

The way around this potential issue is to a) sell the add-on for dirt cheap (the expansion pak was around $30 I think) and b) package the add-on into a highly marketed big hit game that is guaranteed to make lucrative sales where at least 75% of the console owners will buy the game. And this shouldn't be done at the very beginning of the release, but instead should be offered as a mid-life cycle refresh to get another few years out of the console. During that time, they pack in the add-on into all new consoles so any new buyers won't be expected to shell out more money just to play the new games.

Knowing all that, its still too risky in my mind for a console maker to do that. Plus you'll increase the cost of production of the console since they now have to add expansion slots to the console.
 
Just about everyone here with some exceptions really have no clue what they are talking about. I could explain how and why the whole lack of DX 11 argument is just not relevant and how this improvement in hardware level will bring things on from a developers point of view, but people are to hung up on bashing Nintendo to listen so i wont bother. there is no new Xbox or Playstation so lay off Nintendo at least they bought something to the party.
 
I'm hoping Nintendo eventually just becomes a 3rd party game developer to the more powerful/evolved systems in the future. Could you imagine Super Mario on the PS3?

People have been spending large amounts of $ on a Nintendo system just to pretty much buy Nintendo created games. Nintendo has gone way away from the days of Snes where they had the dominate hardware & 3rd party games.
 
I tend to agree with all of you, but... These consoles are made to game. They are made to be cheaper... If all the high class hardware you wanted was stuffed into such a small form factor, you'd have problems. Look at the size of the wii. There are low end video cards that take up more room than that. You guys have to take console gaming for what it is, not for what you want it to be. A console will never be on par or out class your PC!
 
k, 2 points,
A) when compared to the original wii this is most certainly an upgrade, maybe not if you compare it to something incomparable, id sooner measure an upgrade against the last gen of the thing that has been upgraded, the last wii did fine with weaker hardware against the opposition(though I understand N is marketing this console to more "hardcore" gamers(sick in mouth for saying "hardcore" gamers), so I can understand some timidity regarding the idea of sub par graphics, but here again the 4 series were pretty good, dx11 would be a nice feature but not a deal breaker dx10.1 will suffice I am sure.
B) optimization, the last gen consoles all had pretty weak hardware yet are consistently able to produce passable graphics compared to our pc's, there is every chance that the wii could make better use of the 4 series card than any pc game was able to . The simplicity to design a game for one hardware set allows for massive optimizations, im always impressed what consoles are still able to churn out despite their aged hardware, the wii U is in theory going to be some distance ahead of the x box 360 and ps3, I really dont see the problem, well at least until we see the price finalised: P
 
[citation][nom]mactronix[/nom]Just about everyone here with some exceptions really have no clue what they are talking about. I could explain how and why the whole lack of DX 11 argument is just not relevant and how this improvement in hardware level will bring things on from a developers point of view, but people are to hung up on bashing Nintendo to listen so i wont bother. there is no new Xbox or Playstation so lay off Nintendo at least they bought something to the party.[/citation]

Then please do explain to us "bashers" why a skilled and non-lazy developer can take advantage of the additional features thats available in the hardware?

Here is what the DX10-11 added to the table, not all are run in hardware but most is.

* Fully programable pipelines
* New state object model
* SM 4.0
* Geometry Shaders
* Texture Arrays
* Predicated Rendering
* Insatancing 2.0
* Tesselation
* Multithreaded Rendering
* Compute Shaders

Enlighten us =)
 
*4000 series GPU*

that really doesn't mean anything. is it a 4350 or a 4870 X2? huge difference.

That's like saying "his new vehicle is a ford"

well hell they make everything from crappy cars to 2 ton trucks so.


I have to admit, I still run a modest system with a 4870. It's outdated by enthusiast and sure, some gamer's views, but hell, It gets the job done. Besides, nintendo has never been "all about" graphics except for *maybe* the N64. They've always been outmatched on specs on paper, and they've always had consoles that print money.


PSP Vs. DS for example. Hell, you can do WAY more with a PSP. On paper it blows the DS out of the water in pretty much ever aspect except the touchscreen and the second screen. MP3 support, video support, way better looking games. Crack it and run emulators, but the big N beat it down because the GAMES were on the DS, not on the PSP. You can only play so many JRPGs before you get bored.

That was the issue with the Wii was that the bulk of 3rd party games were shovelware (carnival game time wasters etc.) that didn't even attempt to push the limits of the hardware. If you really wanted to you could build a modest but solid library of titles, plus the virtual machine made it worth it but if you went to wal mart and looked on the shelf you'd see crap.

Nintendo needs only match the current offerings (which, with the new kinect/move peripherals, aren't going anywhere until at least 2014.) to get the "MADDEN AND MODERN WARFARE EVERY YEAR?! TAKE MY MONEY EA!!!" crowd back on board.

out of every big third party game released that had to have a "custom" game built for the Wii, in almost every occasion, the wii version had crap graphics and controls with tacked on wiimote action (SWING THE NUNCHUCK TO THROW A KNIFE IN A CUTSCENE?!?!? WHOOAAAAAAAA!)

TL;DR: What nintendo is aiming for isn't total graphical supremacy, it's just equality to get the big 3rd party titles back on board without it being some crap watered down Wii version.
 
Most of you are grossly missing the point. Nintendo has never had a mission statement of spearheading console development from a technological perspective. Their aim is for the players to immerse themselves into the games, make it fun and offer them a unique experience. Yes, I know I sound like a Nintendo PR agent, but please think back to just how many games have you played that had amazing graphics, but the game sucked so bad you didn't even get halfway through the game. Not to mention, by Nintendo buying "outdated" components, it will keep costs down, and production high. You should all remember that Sony has already stated that they are also taking this approach with their upcoming console.
 
I find it a huge leap forward for Nintendo. Dx10 graphics are not bad 😉 now, it depends if its a hd 48xx or hd 42xx.
I honestly prefer a company that sells the console at a profit and don't trick you into paying for it through games.
 
Nintendo doesnt care because they know the herd of sheep will still buy it. I was hoping they atleast have a 5000 series card wich is extremely power efficient and dx11. 4870s are more powerfull than 5770s though and 5770s are extremely good for gaming right now for the price.
 
[citation][nom]dimar[/nom]Somebody needs to come up with a modular console that will replace the PC for gaming. A console where you can upgrade components, but can't have access to files. This will prevent pirating, and hopefully let deveopers push the graphics to the limits. Full keyboard and mouse support for gaming is a MUST!We'll use the PC for work purposes like video/audio editing, internet, word, etc. Where hardware people will concentrate on CPU and GPGPU.ATI and nVidia can sell graphics modules for the mudular consoles...[/citation]
While that is interesting to hear, it won't work because consoles are meant to be a closed box. That allows developers to focus on a single hardware specification for a console and optimize their code for it. Imagine several Xboxes and PSs with varying level of hardware, because some people will upgrade and some will not. Then, the prices of game development will go significantly up and games won't be that profitable on consoles. Corporations won't like that.
 
here you go i got a handy time machine PandaBear why dont you jump in and go back to 2008 and tell Nintendo to use a yet to be created grafix architecture. Use some damn sense will you, console product life cycles far exceed PCs, we talking years as opposed to months

The system specification for Project Cafe would have been frozen very early on in it's development cycle, if you dont do that you be chasing delay after delay after delay just trying to update your hardware and ensure compatibility and stability, Windows can handle the changes in hardware because it has a large amount of bloat and fail safe to ensure maximum compatibility, a console on the other hand is very streamlined and has a very low tolerance for deviation often communicating directly at the hardware level rather then using an intermediary process, it allows them to squeeze out every last drop of performance

in short they used the best suited hardware that was available to them when the specification was frozen
 
the other story is that the next xbox should be DX11 based. So Nintendo is is trying to get back some of the hardcore gamers by building on a platform one gen behind its competitors???? Good luck with that lol. I haven't been into Nintendo ever sense the N64 and they are proving me right. Saying that the graphics card has more power than the current x box is ok but that just means the next offering from sony and microsoft should again leave nintendo in the dust.
 
I'm still amazed how many supposedly tech savy people post complete nonsense. The Xbox graphics unit is roughly and Radeon XT 1950 and the one on the PS3 is roughly a Geforce 7900 GS. Why with such lower power processors can they generate the graphic quality the do compared there PC counterparts. Low level optimization. When you you have closed system writing software for it is that much easier. DX sdks for PC are not compatible with consoles so the fact that they don't support DX11 is irrelevant. The R770 is gonna blow the gpus in the PS3 and Xbox away. Plus its gonna be on die with the processor so depending on how many stream cores they use it could even surpass the amount in the AMD A8 series. On top of a 4 core faster/stronger IBM Powerpc proc. This thing is gonna run circles around any competitor with product on market.
 

If you read the other article on this Nintendo is trying to gain back some of the hardcore gaming market and basically abandoning the lower end that they got with the Wii. So if there next offering is way under powered VS the next Sony or Microsoft console what do you think will happen?? No more kids and old people or at least not in those numbers and the real gamers will again ignore this one so that leaves them loosing a huge base of customers. Microsoft is (rumor but still) probably making there next console with DX 11 so that means 5000 cards again this will leave Nintendo in the dust.
 
"the Wii U should have no problem at least matching the graphical output of the current generation." The fact that Nintendo's hardware that's released 6 years after Xbox 360 and PS3 will only "match" said 6 year old hardware is a bit pathetic. It will likely cost more than the current 6 year old hardware as well. Nintendo has always been lackluster in hardware. Lucky they have Mario and Zelda to save their asses.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

COMPANY
RESOURCES
FOLLOW
Top Bottom