Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

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Vic 40

Polypheme
Ambassador
Titanium psus are way expensive. Pre covid they were usually 50%+ more than a similar gold. Good gold units can still hit 88-90%, being ~5% worse on efficiency while costing a lot less makes good the right psus.
I do agree on this, but if someone here kinda get's criticized for going 1000watt platinum i don't get that. It won't bite him and is his choice to spend that money for a good and probably great psu.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Pre-covid (11-10-2019) the Seasonic Prime Gold 650w units were 159 dollars. The Seasonic Prime Titanium Ultra units were 152.00. Don't believe me, look at the PCPP price history. The cost of Titanium over Gold has not been all that significant for a long time now if both Gold and Titanium efficiency units are compared based on the SAME platform and model, or something very similar by the same brand.

When I bought my 650w Prime Titanium Ultra it was about that price. I bought it on August 19, 2019 and it was 164.99 on Amazon at the time. The Gold Prime unit was like 149.99 at the time. To me, it's a no brainer to go with a Titanium model of the same unit if the price difference is less than 15 dollars. Even at a 25-30 dollar difference it would be sensible. Gold units are really the "standard" these days, and you know that companies tend to put their best foot forward when it comes to their Titanium models so MOSTLY when you get one, you are getting the best that that company has to offer, at least for that product line.

Gold models, aren't that hard to come by and there are plenty of reviews where there's been some poor findings and shoddy workmanship on a gold rated unit by a variety of companies. Not so much with reviews of Titanium rated units.

I'm not suggesting that we should start assuming that units are superior ONLY because they are titanium, but if the gold version of a given model is good, the titanium version is almost certainly going to be that much better and not JUST because of the higher efficiency.
 
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Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
I do agree on this, but if someone here kinda get's criticized for going 1000watt platinum i don't get that. It won't bite him and is his choice to spend that money for a good and probably great psu.
If you want to throw a 1000w Platinum PSU at everything be my guest, but framing it as good advice and knocking anything less than that is where you get criticized. Thats what he did if you read his first post. To his points nobody here has ever said to run a 350w PSU at 90-100%, but that sure is how he made it sound like our discussion has gone.
 

Vic 40

Polypheme
Ambassador
Building my own computers, not for resale, I will always oversize my PSU anyway. Let me elaborate a little bit here though. Just because you are running a 1000 watt PSU doesn't mean that you are pulling that wattage, it just means that it is capable of doing it. So if your rig is pulling 300 watts it will pull that regardless of the PSU size assuming it can handle it. But when it comes to a point of efficiency, assuming a very high end PSU, the larger supply may be more efficient at given loads. This is due to the cooling necessary at different percentages of load to the PSU. A 1000 watt PSU pulling 30% in contrast with a 350 Watt power supply pulling high 90% will be running the same load, but the smaller PSU will be in full active cooling while the larger one is probably not even running its fan. The other, and more important thing, is about voltage stability. As clock frequency continues to rise and voltage levels drop the need for dead clean power has never been more important. The bigger power supply will usually have dedicated rails and bigger caps that will separate and hold things when an overload happens. I have been around more than one undersized junk PSU that when a fan started pulling funny the computer would occasionally crash. For me on any build I will always get the biggest, Titanium + rated PSU I possibly can. I have just had too many problems trying to save a few bucks and building an unstable rig.
Looks like he talks about what he does, not what he recommends. Looking at why he does it makes enough sense for me, even when he might get away with an 750/850watts psu,


I pull my rig pretty hard all of the time (folding at home) and gaining 16% energy efficiency. I run folding at home constantly on my threadripper and for the 500 watts I pull continuously the titanium saves me around $85 a year in electricity over the 80+. I hardly consider that to be a huge waste of money.
Whether he really gains 16% is something else when considering that a gold psu already does well. You would/should never buy just a 80+ psu for such a build so the comparison is abit off.

But in the end i only see him talk about what he does with his rig.
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
At those prices i agree. Every time I've gone looking for a unit i always find a gold unit in my price range. Never anything higher. Pre covid I'm sure i could find a good gold unit for less than the higher rated ones. It wouldn't be from the same line, but it would still be a good one.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Looks like he talks about what he does, not what he recommends. Looking at why he does it makes enough sense for me, even when he might get away with an 750/850watts psu,



Whether he really gains 16% is something else when considering that a gold psu already does well. You would/should never buy just a 80+ psu for such a build so the comparison is abit off.

But in the end i only see him talk about what he does with his rig.
You can nitpick context all you want. You can assume his intentions all you want. If you wade into a discussion about how you do it, even for your own stuff, then you open yourself to be criticized especially if your choices don't make sense. He describes why he does it and his methodology. He may not say "I recommend doing this" but if you post an in depth post about what you do and why... Well that damn sure sounds like you think thats the best way to me.

I mean theres a few ways of dealing with such a post. We could all ignore him. Or we can reply and tell him what he is doing is right even though we don't agree with it. Or we could criticize, rightfully as I and others disagree with his choices.

I think you're missing the point of a discussion thread, and/or a forum.
 

Rogue Leader

It's a trap!
Moderator
Thought that was having the ability to give your opinion, but maybe i'm wrong.
Lets go back to the first thing you posted that I replied to

I do agree on this, but if someone here kinda get's criticized for going 1000watt platinum i don't get that. It won't bite him and is his choice to spend that money for a good and probably great psu.
You took issue with criticism of his decisions. Despite it being valid criticism.

If you don't get it now then I don't know what to tell you.
 

Vic 40

Polypheme
Ambassador
If he would say to anyone that they should get a 1000watt Platinum psu would i agree with you, but if someone wants to spend all that money on a psu for him/herself is it in the end his/her choice and righfully one to make.

In the next thread i preach what you preach,
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/psu-choices-too-many-now-my-brain-hurts.3633000/#post-21894878
but if this person is going to get that HX anyway is that his choice. He only will have less mony, but the psu will serve him fine in the end.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Yes, EVGA has worked their way through the alphabet now and is working on AA, BB, CC etc. at this point. Jebus, what a crying shame. They need to put their product manager in charge of graphics cards, in charge of power supplies, because they don't do this dumb crap in that segment.
 
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King_V

Distinguished
Yes, EVGA has worked their way through the alphabet now and is working on AA, BB, CC etc. at this point. Jebus, what a crying shame. They need to put their product manager in charge of graphics cards, in charge of power supplies, because they don't do this dumb crap in that segment.

Well, but, this one's a GT. That means it's faster, right?
 
Reactions: NightHawkRMX

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
I'd like to call attention to something seemingly important and great for the industry that seems to be going under the radar of most but a few sites. Aris Mpitziopoulos, the guy who does the Toms and TPU PSU reviews and is in charge of http://cybenetics.com is working on (actually it's done I think) the "Powenetics Project". If we're all sick and tired of people bickering and arguing about the true power consumption of GPUs and other hardware under different loads, this is finally something that can alleviate this.

It can be read about here: https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=powenetics



There is a recent interview that someone on JG posted here:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSx1RVXRmJ8


This system or means of measuring power he designed will actually be available to anybody who wants to spend $500-600 for it. I don't know how it exactly works but he says as long as you know how to build a computer you'd have the knowledge to use his power measurement system. It works with custom software he designed on the computer that allows you to read the data specifically as so:



It also now supports CPUs. The end plan is that there will be a large database on cybenetics.com containing all the different CPUs and GPUs that will have exact power measurements in place in full detail. We will no longer have to scour the Internet for detailed reviews, and we will be able to see where power calculators online are at fault since this will be the most accurate data.

Just thought I'd point it out, as I personally think it's awesome. I'm not going to dish out $500 for my own but companies like Toms I'm sure will acquire them and possibly even use them in future reviews for power measurements.
Yeah, I don't think this ever panned out quite as planned considering two years later there are only 80 total card models listed as having been tested, and only TWO from EVGA. A good idea, but it looks like it did not catch on.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
I don't know where EVGA is going with all these models flooding the market, but it makes no sense to me.

No company needs more than maybe six product lines when it comes to power supplies.

A budget bronze line. A good, but not great, gold series. A great gold series. A great platinum series. A great titanium series and then maybe a digital version of their Titanium unit, if they want to offer that. Six series, period. You can have variations on those series, if you are a company that wants to offer RGB versions of those same units, but keep the series the same and simply add an identifier like X-gold RGB if the series is X-gold, for example. Simple. Even a clueless moron can understand that.
 
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So, the pure power 11 has been popping in and out of stock, and wherever I go I see people recommending it. But why, it uses acrf with a 85C hold up cap. And its inrush current is stupid high, higher then any seasonic. Looking at the performance data, I'd give it a hard pass. So why do people recommend it? Am I missing something.
 

King_V

Distinguished

A new model called the G+
Not to be confused with the g1+
In my head I hear a frustrated Morty going: "Aw, G, Rick!" :LOL:


I . .uh . .I'll show myself out now...
 

4745454b

Titan
Moderator
85C main cap isn't the end of the world. It's large and usually cooled well by the fan. I'd the only issue with a PSU is an 85C main cap i wouldn't stress about it. 85C caps on the secondary side or sub standard caps would be an issue.
 

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