Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[NightHawkRMX]

The more I think about this topic, this thought did come to mind: The fact that more and more PSUs are using cheaper caps due to shortages makes the Segotep GP 600w seem even more appealing to me. The main complaint I have about it is the cheap capacitors, after all. If the competition is also doing cheap caps, it doesn't seem so bad in comparison. Would still really want to see a review though.

Spoiler: Update on my experience with the Segotep

I have used it for about 6 months for testing computers. I was originally going to use it in one system but ended up going for something different, so it just stuck around, and having no better use, I just throw it into any pc that needs a PSU temporarily anymore.

I did test the Segotep with an overclocked i7 990x and GTX590 (dual thermi with power consumption on par with an RTX3090) and never had any issues with it during prime 95 and Furmark simultaneously. It was probably being run dam near 100% capacity the entire time. But then again, 100% capacity shouldn't be an issue.

Ironically, my Enermax Platimax DF 500w, which is basically the segotep minus 100w but with a lot better component quality also has no issues with this combo, which goes to show how much wattage you really need.

 

[jonnyguru]

I am confused now, is it a capacity problem, a tariff problem, or a bit of both? If it's both why don't they design their own decent bronze platform (which I'm pretty sure they're capable of), and make someone else manufacture it? I mean this is essentially what they did with the B12 and G12, but they don't want to spend extra cents on better components?

And I'm pretty sure Seasonic vs Corsair and CM isn't like Koenigsegg vs GM.

PS. I am not trying to argue with you, I just want a discussion that iron my confusion out.

It's a little bit of every problem possible. Resources. Capacity. Cost of manufacturing.

Seasonic is incredibly small. Really. VERY small. But they're a publicly traded company in Taiwan, so they have to maintain a particular margin to keep shareholders happy.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that seasonic is a small company, but I get they are in the grand scheme of things

 

[jonnyguru]

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that seasonic is a small company, but I get they are in the grand scheme of things

Their China factory has two lines and they don't make their own PCBA. Taiwan is a single line and it just builds up SKD's. Same size as Super Flower and Andyson. To put that into perspective, CWT has two factories, one in China and one in Vietnam, each with a dozen lines. They do their own PCBA and DC cables. HEC has two factories each with a dozen lines and a Taiwan facility for building SDKs. They do their own PCBA. Great Wall has two factories each with a dozen lines. They also do their own PCBA's. Enhance has eight lines. Also making their own PCBA. And those are the "smaller" factories. Don't even get me started on Delta, Chicony and Flex.

The enthusiast community like the one here and LTT is a microcosm of the entire industry. Look at the "best sellers" on Amazon, for example: https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Computers-Accessories-Computer-Power-Supplies/zgbs/pc/1161760 It's mostly garbage. The only Seasonic is the S12III and the NZXT C750. EVGA has taken over because they're bundling PSUs with graphics cards. Resellers are forced to buy 1 to 1 GPUs and PSUs and the GPU market is so hot that resellers will do anything to get cards so they're getting flooded with PSUs and not buying them from anyone else.

Like I said, for the most part the PSU market is a commodity market. And there's no brand loyalty. 99% of people look at wattage and efficiency (because they think efficiency equates to quality) and buy whatever's cheapest.

 

[Darkbreeze]

99% of people look at wattage and efficiency (because they think efficiency equates to quality) and buy whatever's cheapest.

And this is the exact problem in a nutshell, when it comes to why so many people end up with what most of us would consider a lower quality power supply. It's also a good part of the reason why so many people have unnecessary problems with their systems.

 

[refillable]

@jonnyguru I'll flip the table then, why can Corsair, ASUS, and CM provide us with good budget options? I was thinking about their capacity but I think none of that matters because they don't make their own PSUs. These brands also suffer from high tariffs for made in China products. I get it's a commodity market, but why does the aforementioned brands seemingly cater to the enthusiasts rather than making maximum profits for themselves (like in the case of Seasonic)? Is it because they are not a publicly traded company? Or is there some other reasons why?

 

[Aeacus]

Or is there some other reasons why?

My guess: desire for more money is higher than morality.

Only very few companies reach and stay at the moral high ground.

 

[Eximo]

I'll flip the table then, why can Corsair, ASUS, and CM provide us with good budget options?

Also brand recognition. They might be relying on you to associate good things with their name and buy more of their products, so they can afford to keep prices lower if they make more profit on the Keyboard, Memory, AIO, Motherboard, etc. you might pick up.

 

[refillable]

Also brand recognition. They might be relying on you to associate good things with their name and buy more of their products, so they can afford to keep prices lower if they make more profit on the Keyboard, Memory, AIO, Motherboard, etc. you might pick up.

If that's the case shouldn't they cheap out as well?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Cooler master clearly doesn't care much about brand recognition considering how many garbage PSUs they make.

"Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day" comes to mind when I see a good cooler master psu.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but they really do have a lot of garbage. I have owned a couple of cases from them too, some up to $75 and the metal is garbage tier quality.

About the only thing I like from cooler master is their coolers.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Some brands will take a loss on hardware, at least for a while, in order to get their product and brand recognition out there. Once it is, there is usually a steep increase in prices as they shift that segment towards an attempt to also be profitable.

Just look at EVGA. They were selling power supplies at a loss for years before they suddenly raised the prices on all those popular models.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Cooler master clearly doesn't care much about brand recognition considering how many garbage PSUs they make.

"Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day" comes to mind when I see a good cooler master psu.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but they really do have a lot of garbage. I have owned a couple of cases from them too, some up to $75 and the metal is garbage tier quality.

About the only thing I like from cooler master is their coolers.

I have a Cooler Master Storm Enforcer case from years back. It is a high quality case. They have historically had several different case products that were among some of the best you could get at the time for the price, or at all in some cases. But the majority of their products are cheap, because that is who they are trying to sell to. Selling cheap products has, for Cooler Master and Thermaltake, become their mainstay. Now, I wouldn't buy anything from them. Well, I did buy one of those 90 degree ATX connector adapters a couple of years ago. Other than that, I avoid their products like the plague and I don't recommend them, ever.

But if somebody were to ask about one of their older products, I might offer a different response, depending on WHAT the product in question was.

 

[jonnyguru]

A lot of fun assumptions here. 😀

If you have your own factory, and it's a smaller factory, you can only buy enough parts inventory to support that volume. If you're a bigger factory, making PSUs for a lot of different customers, you're buying that many more components that can be used across all of those customers. So do the math. If you have two lines vs. twelve lines, you're buying and building six times the components.

Just look at pricing at some place like Digikey or Mouser to put things into perspective. One cap is $1. 100 caps is 50 cents each. 5000 caps is 30 cents each. Believe it or not, those prices keep going down for 10K, 20K, etc.

 

[Rogue Leader]

My guess: desire for more money is higher than morality.

Only very few companies reach and stay at the moral high ground.

You can't eat your morals.

Seasonic can only make so much money selling PSUs for people like us. Lets be honest $50-$70 PSUs are where its at. If you as a company can't sell something profitable in that price range you're screwed. Some companies dance all over that price range, others go even lower. Seasonic is in there and has seemed to cheap out on some things to get it in there. Its a calculated risk for them. As JG said they are a publicly listed company in Taiwan, they have shareholders to appease. And a VERY small manufacturing footprint, so they need to sometimes make cuts that someone buying and building more hardware may not need to, to reach a specific price point. Thats why the S12II platform has survived since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

 

[Aeacus]

Seasonic can only make so much money selling PSUs for people like us.

Lets not forget that Seasonic doesn't produce only retail PSUs. They also produce OEM PSUs and have done it since 1975. In 2003, Seasonic launched retail products under it's own brand name. Seasonic is similar to Flextronics, who's main segment is also in OEM/server/industrial market while they also produce PSUs for retail. Of course, Flextronics only produces few retail PSU models, under Corsair brand, while Seasonic produces far more.

 

[Udyr]

So many interesting things to read with so little time. Therefore, I'll be direct:

Any PSU recommendations within 650-750W and around $100? Non-modular options are accepted.

 

[Rogue Leader]

So many interesting things to read with so little time. Therefore, I'll be direct:

Any PSU recommendations within 650-750W and around $100? Non-modular options are accepted.

This thread is really more for PSU discussion, you should create your own thread with your wants, as well as system specs and you will get a lot of good recommendations.

 

[Udyr]

This thread is really more for PSU discussion, you should create your own thread with your wants, as well as system specs and you will get a lot of good recommendations.

I understand. Since the title indicates PSU recommendations as well, I thought it would be a good place to also ask for it.

 

[Rogue Leader]

I understand. Since the title indicates PSU recommendations as well, I thought it would be a good place to also ask for it.

Good point, failure by us in the title. Lot more eyeballs will see a new thread.

 

[refillable]

Cooler master clearly doesn't care much about brand recognition considering how many garbage PSUs they make.

"Even a broken clock is right 2 times a day" comes to mind when I see a good cooler master psu.

Perhaps I am being a bit harsh, but they really do have a lot of garbage. I have owned a couple of cases from them too, some up to $75 and the metal is garbage tier quality.

About the only thing I like from cooler master is their coolers.

I think that is no longer the case. The MWE V2 White/Bronze/Gold, the V gold/V gold V2, V platinum, Masterwatt maker, they are all good PSUs for their price that was launched recently. I know they make crap like the Elite and the Masterwatt lite but I am always a believer that brand isn't important. It's the EXACT unit that matters.

So many interesting things to read with so little time. Therefore, I'll be direct:

Any PSU recommendations within 650-750W and around $100? Non-modular options are accepted.

Depends on where you are from and what the pricing is like in your country. It's best to provide us with a local online store for reference for PSU recommendations.

 

[jonnyguru]

Lets not forget that Seasonic doesn't produce only retail PSUs. They also produce OEM PSUs and have done it since 1975. In 2003, Seasonic launched retail products under it's own brand name. Seasonic is similar to Flextronics, who's main segment is also in OEM/server/industrial market while they also produce PSUs for retail. Of course, Flextronics only produces few retail PSU models, under Corsair brand, while Seasonic produces far more.

You didn't read anything I typed, did you? ;-) Seasonic is nothing like Flextronics. Right off the bat, Flex is an OEM. Seasonic is an ODM.

Yes, Seasonic is relatively "new" as a brand name, but they're growing that brand name because they can get higher profit margins while maintaining a reasonable sell price ("cut out the middle man" as they say on TV commercials). This is working out so well for them that I wouldn't be surprised if this time next year, we don't see anyone using Seasonic as an ODM and every Seasonic made PSU that comes out of their factory is Seasonic branded. Because their factory/capacity/buying power is so small, however, if they need to ship out a container of their own branded stuff (say, like a container of PSUs to Newegg), they'll just push out the stuff they make for other companies (Corsair, Asus, etc). Obviously, this will (or already has) damage relationships, but why should they care? They're making twice as much margin selling their own stuff then making product for others.

 

[jonnyguru]

I think that is no longer the case. The MWE V2 White/Bronze/Gold, the V gold/V gold V2, V platinum, Masterwatt maker, they are all good PSUs for their price that was launched recently. I know they make crap like the Elite and the Masterwatt lite but I am always a believer that brand isn't important. It's the EXACT unit that matters.

Precisely. I think Cooler Master got tired of getting their butts kicked and have done a good job of turning things around. They've built a good team that knows what they're doing. Sure, they still make cheap stuff, but that's one of those things where if you don't have something in that particular price range, that sale is going to go somewhere else. Even if it's a loss leader, it still helps you in other categorize when you amortize your costs.

 

[refillable]

Precisely. I think Cooler Master got tired of getting their butts kicked and have done a good job of turning things around. They've built a good team that knows what they're doing. Sure, they still make cheap stuff, but that's one of those things where if you don't have something in that particular price range, that sale is going to go somewhere else. Even if it's a loss leader, it still helps you in other categorize when you amortize your costs.

So is this team from CM a lot like you guys in Corsair where they're capable of designing or is it just testing, conceptualizing, troubleshooting, and all that?

 

[jonnyguru]

So is this team from CM a lot like you guys in Corsair where they're capable of designing or is it just testing, conceptualizing, troubleshooting, and all that?

Dedicated PSU engineering team. That started building it up in 2018. If all they're doing is conceptualizing, testing and troubleshooting they're not going to be engineers because they would be over qualified. That's what product/project manager and lab techs are for.

 

[refillable]

Dedicated PSU engineering team. That started building it up in 2018. If all they're doing is conceptualizing, testing and troubleshooting they're not going to be engineers because they would be over qualified. That's what product/project manager and lab techs are for.

Oh, that should explain the good products they launch since 2018...